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I still don't see why some people are seeing Kirsty Branning as a villain


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Old 13-01-2013, 09:32
Kenkennedykenne
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If the man you truly loved and indeed married, and supported you through your darkest hour upped and vanished, whilst you were pregnant, then his brother made you get an abortion that had devastating consequences, you would be upset. So then picture yourself finding this man again, only to see him perfectly happy with another woman, having had little to no contact with you over the past year. You would probably be a little upset and angry too.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:36
thejoyof_pat
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If the man you truly loved and indeed married, and supported you through your darkest hour upped and vanished, whilst you were pregnant, then his brother made you get an abortion that had devastating consequences, you would be upset. So then picture yourself finding this man again, only to see him perfectly happy with another woman, having had little to no contact with you over the past year. You would probably be a little upset and angry too.
Yeah and I would want shot of the douche because of all those things. Aren't they classed as separated anyway because he had the divorced papers sent to her? She's acting desperate but it's creates great drama She's not a villain, yet, but I don't think she wants to be back with Max to play happy families I think she has other ideas, she's is luring him into a false sense of security.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:39
Kenkennedykenne
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As far as I am aware, and I may be fully wrong, they would not be separated until she signs the divorce papers. From the sounds of it, it has been a case of

"Alright love, here are the divorce papers. I know y'still love me and all and that's all well and good but I don't want to be your 'usband anymore so do us a favour mate and sign the paper, regardless of your personal feelings"
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:41
IzzyInTheHouse
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If you're talking about the villi an for 2013 thread, I think most were saying she may become one, not is one currently.

I just think she's desperate atm, not a villian.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:43
Kenkennedykenne
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Nah, before your post, I had not seen that thread I have to say.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:45
IzzyInTheHouse
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Nah, before your post, I had not seen that thread I have to say.
Oh okay lol, just because many were saying she could possibly be the next villain.

Like I said though, I think she's desperate and has no self respect, but not really evil etc.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:48
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Shes looks like someone on a street corner - and acts like it. He has a family - why doesn't she just move on.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:49
Zack06
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She is a villain. OK I get that Max and Tanya are not saints either, especially Max, but seriously now can't this woman just give it up? He gave her the divorce papers and told her he was marrying Tanya. She practically threw herself at him for days on end, so I'm not surprised he ended up kissing her knowing his background but seriously she needs to get herself some self-respect and dignity.

And not only that, she's willing to try and break up a family, especially Oscar who is just a little boy over a failed marriage that Max clearly doesn't really want any more. There may be some feelings between them still going on as everything is fairly recent, but she should just do the decent thing and accept he wants to be with his family and move on. She is desperate and is a villain, as like Lauren said, she is trying to take her father away from her. She is selfish and bitter that Max ditched her. She needs to get over herself and move on. :yawn:
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:51
nickymonger
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I'd say she is more 'potential''.

At the end of the day, we know nothing about Kirsty other than:
1. She is an ex-exotic dancer
2. She capable of manipulation
3. She is over-confident, and believes Max loves her and doesn't care who she hurts in the process of confirming this
4. She was dumped by Max with no explnantion and no contact
5. She isn't scared of anyone.

Then you look at the situation. The man dumped her with no explanation. You'd be angry, you'd want to slap him and you'd want him to hurt. Who turns up wanting to seduce the guy, get him to break up with the current girlfriend and get back with her and infiltrate the family in any means possible? That's not normal behaviour so she is either:
1. A total bunny boiler with a screw loose
2. Playing Max and looking for revenge whilst pretending she wants him back

One thing she is not playing is a sweet, nice character. she has the markings of a total b**** based on what she has shown so far. The fact she isn't scared of anyone, knows no boundaries and the little half smiles...she reminds me of Kim Tate/ Chrissie!
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:51
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I don't see her as a villain, I think Max is the villain here (even though I like him) he is playing both Tanya and Kirsty, I think they should both team up agaist him and bury him.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:54
IzzyInTheHouse
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She is a villain. OK I get that Max and Tanya are not saints either, especially Max, but seriously now can't this woman just give it up? He gave her the divorce papers and told her he was marrying Tanya. She practically threw herself at him for days on end, so I'm not surprised he ended up kissing her knowing his background but seriously she needs to get herself some self-respect and dignity.

And not only that, she's willing to try and break up a family, especially Oscar who is just a little boy over a failed marriage that Max clearly doesn't really want any more. There may be some feelings between them still going on as everything is fairly recent, but she should just do the decent thing and accept he wants to be with his family and move on. She is desperate and is a villain, as like Lauren said, she is trying to take her father away from her. She is selfish and bitter that Max ditched her. She needs to get over herself and move on. :yawn:
Totally agree. They met each other, married and split all in the space of 3 months. Hardly love.
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Old 13-01-2013, 09:55
Kenkennedykenne
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Totally agree. They met each other, married and split all in the space of 3 months. Hardly love.
To give her some credit, she did not want to split. We also know she was extremely vulnerable when he met her, so one could almost see the thing as Max taking advantage of a vulnerable lady
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Old 13-01-2013, 10:07
IzzyInTheHouse
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To give her some credit, she did not want to split. We also know she was extremely vulnerable when he met her, so one could almost see the thing as Max taking advantage of a vulnerable lady
Max was just as vulnerable in some ways though. His family had kicked him out, and he was all alone except for Derek.

The simple way I think of it is that he gave her the divorce papers, he moved back in with his wife and has even been sleeping with her, the marriage is over and Kirsty should move on. But instead she arrives, knowing Max doesn't want her (the kiss was lust, not love) and still goes around handing herself on a plate to him.
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Old 13-01-2013, 10:11
Zack06
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To give her some credit, she did not want to split. We also know she was extremely vulnerable when he met her, so one could almost see the thing as Max taking advantage of a vulnerable lady
She may have been vulnerable at one stage, but that does not excuse her behaviour in all of this.
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Old 13-01-2013, 10:22
vald
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Yeah and I would want shot of the douche because of all those things. Aren't they classed as separated anyway because he had the divorced papers sent to her? She's acting desperate but it's creates great drama She's not a villain, yet, but I don't think she wants to be back with Max to play happy families I think she has other ideas, she's is luring him into a false sense of security.
Seperation requires agreement by both partners. In Kirsy's case she was deserted.

Agree with the gist of your post though...and I'm loving her work. She's given the show a much needed lift. Anything less than castration will leave me disappointed.
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Old 13-01-2013, 10:29
Off_the_hook13
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I wouldn't call her a villain but she stinks of desperation. Yes Max is legally married to her but it was a gunshot wedding, Max was in a bad place and they were hardly loves young dream. Kirsty is desperately trying to make out their soul mates after 5 minutes of being together and even after Max left her the minute he knew Tanya wanted him back. She's no villain but could be a serious bunny boiler.

Although it looks like Max is going to give into lust yet again.
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Old 13-01-2013, 11:01
mo mouse
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Whilst I am not saying it is 100% true 100% of the time, the default setting both on this forum and in perception generally, is that whenever a strong woman with some personality and ability to stand up for herself arrives on the scene, she is regarded as being potentially negative, a troublemaker and often a villain. Kirsty may have a dark side, but compare her with Max. What he has done, what he was going to do (commit bigamy) is unforgivable, as was his affair with his son's wife, yet most people seem to deal with it by saying he's got a nice arse.
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Old 13-01-2013, 11:07
ilovenicnacs
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Whilst I am not saying it is 100% true 100% of the time, the default setting both on this forum and in perception generally, is that whenever a strong woman with some personality and ability to stand up for herself arrives on the scene, she is regarded as being potentially negative, a troublemaker and often a villain. Kirsty may have a dark side, but compare her with Max. What he has done, what he was going to do (commit bigamy) is unforgivable, as was his affair with his son's wife, yet most people seem to deal with it by saying he's got a nice arse.
I think both the women are being desperate! who would fight over a 2 timer like that?

Never looked at his arse tbh, too dazzled by the shine off his head
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Old 13-01-2013, 11:12
jerseyporter
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She is He gave her the divorce papers and told her he was marrying Tanya. She practically threw herself at him for days on end... And not only that, she's willing to try and break up a family,,
Apologies for snipping your post, just thought it would be easier:

Max might have given Kirsty the papers, but that alone meant nothing. He still couldn't have married Tanya except as a bigamist. Why? Well, before you say "he thought he was divorced" and all that rubbish, when you apply for a marriage licence BOTH parties must prove they are free to marry, and the registrar would have demanded to see Max's copy of the decree absolute. He wouldn't have been able to take Max's word for it - the registrar could be prosecuted for that - he would have to have seen the legal document and recorded a copy of the date of issue etc on the marriage licence. At that point, when asked for something he couldn't provide, even if he didn't know it before, Max knew he was still married and couldn't legally marry Tanya!

With regard to Kirsty, she hasn't been 'throwing herself' at Max, she's simply not left the area and sat back and waited for something to happen - as she knew it would! When you're as old as I am (you appear to be quite young and immature in your views - and also male? Men never look beyond the obvious to the subtleties beneath) you can read between the lines in someone like Max a mile away - Kirsty knows full well she doesn't have to do anything except respond to the desperation that is being shown TO HER to make her leave - Tanya because she doesn't trust Max (rightly) and Max is desperate for Kirsty to leave for the same reason he didn't contact her for over a year, which is not trusting himself not to respond because he still loves her (in the way that Max loves anyone, that is). Max actually said that to Kirsty on Christmas Day, but some people are so determined to see Kirsty as the one in the wrong here they conveniently overlook the facts!

Kirsty isn't 'willingly trying' to break up a family - the family is already broken, and was broken a long time before Max even met her. Kirsty is legally married to Max and if she wants to talk to him about it, about their past, about what happened, then she has every right to, and Kirsty sees what you and so many others fail to see (odd when Max is completely see-through) which is that Max is a cowardly, conflicted man who just wants the easy option every time. The easy option is to pretend Kirsty doesn't exist any more and be with Tanya - and whilst he didn't see or talk to Kirsty he could kid himself about it. But as soon as Kirsty saw him, talked to him, he couldn't pretend any more.

I've seen it so many times, men like Max, women like Kirsty and Tanya. I'm guessing you're relatively young to be so black and white about all of this - that's ok, young, idealistic people who think love is also black and white, often are. But so many comments about Kirsty, and the whole 'triangle' have completely missed the nuances of how the Max/Kirsty thing is being played and are blaming Kirsty for the wrong things and in the wrong way.

a failed marriage that Max clearly doesn't really want any more. There may be some feelings between them still going on as everything is fairly recent, but she should just do the decent thing and accept he wants to be with his family and move on. She is desperate and is a villain, as like Lauren said, she is trying to take her father away from her. She is selfish and bitter that Max ditched her. She needs to get over herself and move on. :yawn:
Ok, I'm even more sure now that you are too young and inexperienced to see the nuances here - the way you express yourself is so immature, and you're lack of life and relationship experience is shining through. Max 'clearly doesn't want the marriage any more'? Clearly? Not at all! Max clearly can't contemplate leaving Kirsty completely and her presence isn't her 'rubbing his face in it', her presence is Max's cowardice being rubbed in his own by himself! And as for feelings, there is not statute of limitations as to how much time should pass before you say 'give up on them' - anyone who's been properly in love, and then separated for any reason at all, will tell you that. Especially women.

Um, who should do the decent thing here? Max is the one not doing the decent thing, which is being man enough to sort out his own mess and admit his true feelings to everyone concerned. Why do you blame Kirsty and put the onus on her? Just because she's upset the apple cart of a dysfunctional family you seem to idolise? She has every right to demand answers and every right to wait until she gets them. Max could do the decent thing and talk to her, or Tanya could do the decent thing and stop trying to manipulate the situation out of her own desperation, but this is not Kirsty's doing alone. Note, Tanya is the desperate one - every single on of her actions in the last two weeks screams that! Kirsty has the measure of Tanya, alright - she knows she just has to sit back and wait for Tanya to make the next move, the next increasingly desperate move, to get rid of her. Kirsty was the innocent guest at the dinner party - Tanya was the one who mucked that up in a very desperate way, and you could see exactly what was going to happen. Kirsty can see through both Tanya and Max!

A villain? Why? Just because she's an inconvenience to you? Kirsty hasn't broken any laws - Max is the real villain, if you must use such immature, inappropriate terms, for fully intending to commit the criminal offence of bigamy on Christmas Day! Kirsty actually SAVED Max from being a real villain that day, and saved Tanya from being a bigamous wife - but then you've forgotten that, haven't you?

Max was just as vulnerable in some ways though. His family had kicked him out, and he was all alone except for Derek.

The simple way I think of it is that he gave her the divorce papers, he moved back in with his wife and has even been sleeping with her, the marriage is over and Kirsty should move on. But instead she arrives, knowing Max doesn't want her (the kiss was lust, not love) and still goes around handing herself on a plate to him.
But why, then, is it ok to have sympathy for Max and yet vilify Kirsty for the same thing? If they were both vulnerable then both should be given the same amount of compassion, even if the reasons are different. I'm guessing again, but you also seem quite young and inexperienced when it comes to life.

Your 'simple way of looking at it' exposes exactly that lack of life experience, for many of the reasons I've already given to the poster above. Max has behaved with nothing but cowardice and convenience towards both Kirsty and Tanya.

And Kirsty knows Max very well - she knows that Max DOES still want her, more than that that he's too frightened to see her in person because it's only through keeping her at arms' length and not face to face that he can trust himself to walk away again - he said that on Christmas Day! Kirsty can see through Max's actions like he's a mirror, and so can other people - if he'd been serious about getting a divorce he'd never have relied on shoving papers through the door or Derek, he'd have done it himself - Max's actions actually scream "I can't leave this woman, I don't want to leave this woman, but I'm a coward and now I'm being emotionally blackmailed to go back to the mother of my children so I'll take the easy way out".

The kiss might have had elements of lust in it, but if Max was serious about Kirsty not meaning anything to him any more it wouldn't have happened or he would have been honest about it to himself - which he wasn't. His look when he was 'caught' by Tanya said it all - he knows Kirsty is right and he walked away for all the wrong reasons. I don't like the way the character of Kirsty particularly, but she is neither desperate, nor in the wrong here. She was offered a job, she took it - in this day and age you don't turn work down - and she stays there unless or until Max or Tanya come into her space. They could ignore her, but they don't. They could be adults and talk to Kirsty about what she wants to talk about, to get some answers, but they won't.

Max doesn't dare talk to Kirsty honestly with Tanya there because then he knows he'd have to admit the truth to Tanya, which is that he really only stayed last year out of emotional blackmail because of the cancer, and only then did he employ the 'out of sight, out of mind' approach to Kirsty, which is has always applied to anyone who anything he doesn't want to confront. But please don't confuse Max's cowardly approach to avoiding things that he's afraid to face up to as him 'not loving' them. I've seen men like him so often, had friends in the same places Max, Tanya and Kirsty are in, and Kirsty has the measure of Max, and Max knows it. Max is afraid of being called out on his real feelings, and Tanya is afraid of hearing it which is why she's so desperate to get rid of Kirsty.

Max and Tanya are doing a good job of showing themselves up in all of this on their own - they don't need Kirsty's help, and Kirsty isn't doing anything other than standing back and watching (and enjoying) the spectacle from the legally correct position as Max's wife. As far as 'breaking up the family' is concerned, Kirsty hasn't done that and isn't doing that - they have done that all by themselves. Even if Kirsty went tomorrow the family is still in ruins and has never been built on secure foundations so it would continue to be 'same old, same old'. Kirsty has not changed that at all.

I really do hope that all the immature "Kirsty is bad, Kirsty is evil, Kirsty is a villain, Max is innocent, Max doesn't want her really, Max thought he was divorced, Tanya is Max's wife really, Tanya is rightfully Max's etc etc" people would take a moment to consider that life is rarely as black and white as they seem to think it is, and is certainly not as black and white as they're interpreting this story line on EE. Blimey, even my 18 year old daughter can see the subtleties!

Kirsty has not done anything wrong - she has had to struggle and support herself in life, and from what we know has been hurt in her life, and she fell in love with a man who was single and fell in love with her. The length of time that took is irrelevant, and she knew Max well enough to know she wasn't getting anything like the truth when he disappeared. The only foolish thing Kirsty has done (the same as Max did) is trust Derek to sort it out. That's it. The rest is as simple as we have seen - she was told where to go to find Max, she rightly saved a man and a woman from a bigamous marriage (and the man from prosecution for that offence), and then quite rightly asked that her husband (not ex-husband, husband) explain himself... because she knows he can't explain it because he's still got feelings for her. Kirsty can see through Max's cowardice and motives like he's transparent... If you can't see that then oh dear!

PS - I don't like the character of Kirsty, or rather the way she's being portrayed, but I can still be fair and objective about the facts and don't let immature emotions get in the way of seeing the situation from everyone's point of view!
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Old 13-01-2013, 11:27
los.kav
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If the man you truly loved and indeed married, and supported you through your darkest hour upped and vanished, whilst you were pregnant, then his brother made you get an abortion that had devastating consequences, you would be upset. So then picture yourself finding this man again, only to see him perfectly happy with another woman, having had little to no contact with you over the past year. You would probably be a little upset and angry too.
Absolutely. But I'm also a strong enough woman to move on in the THIRTEEN MONTHS they were apart from.

THIRTEEN MONTHS OF SITTING AROUND WAITING FOR MAX. :sleep:

edited to add: that doesn't make her a villain though, just a character I can't relate to or connect with.
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Old 13-01-2013, 11:28
Top_Trumps
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From Sunday People today:

'Two of my exes beat me up': EastEnders star Kierston Wareing on real life heartache

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...beaten-1532037
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Old 13-01-2013, 12:05
Zack06
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Apologies for snipping your post, just thought it would be easier:

With regard to Kirsty, she hasn't been 'throwing herself' at Max, she's simply not left the area and sat back and waited for something to happen - as she knew it would! When you're as old as I am (you appear to be quite young and immature in your views - and also male? Men never look beyond the obvious to the subtleties beneath) you can read between the lines in someone like Max a mile away - Kirsty knows full well she doesn't have to do anything except respond to the desperation that is being shown TO HER to make her leave - Tanya because she doesn't trust Max (rightly) and Max is desperate for Kirsty to leave for the same reason he didn't contact her for over a year, which is not trusting himself not to respond because he still loves her (in the way that Max loves anyone, that is). Max actually said that to Kirsty on Christmas Day, but some people are so determined to see Kirsty as the one in the wrong here they conveniently overlook the facts!

Kirsty isn't 'willingly trying' to break up a family - the family is already broken, and was broken a long time before Max even met her. Kirsty is legally married to Max and if she wants to talk to him about it, about their past, about what happened, then she has every right to, and Kirsty sees what you and so many others fail to see (odd when Max is completely see-through) which is that Max is a cowardly, conflicted man who just wants the easy option every time. The easy option is to pretend Kirsty doesn't exist any more and be with Tanya - and whilst he didn't see or talk to Kirsty he could kid himself about it. But as soon as Kirsty saw him, talked to him, he couldn't pretend any more.
You don't need to apologise, because I'm going to do the same. It always amuses me when people try to make personal assumptions in order to justify their argument. The expression 'clutching at straws' comes to mind there.

I don't know what show you have been watching, but since her arrival, all I've seen is Kirsty slinking around leering at Max claiming 'you want me Max, you want me', and lurking around Tanya and her family. Hardly 'sitting back and waiting for something to happen' as you put it. She's been attempting to seduce Max in an effort to re-awaken the feelings he had for her, which as I sad before are fairly recent. Max is not 'full of subtleties', he's weak minded and always has been, his history more than confirms that. Kirsty is no different to Stacey, Roxy, Vanessa and even Tanya herself, Max responds to temptation, he enjoys the thrill and obviously gets bored and seeks it elsewhere. It's a common trait in serial cheaters like Max, they enjoy the sneaking around and the rush of the illicit affair, but once that all settles down, he gets bored. This pattern is totally obvious in his past.

Kirsty is willing trying to break up a family, there is no argument against that, if she gets what she wants, she will have ruined a family. You can't use the excuse that 'the family is already broken', when moments before they showed up Max and Tanya's kids were preparing to see their parents married again. After Tanya's cancer and Lauren's issues, they were finally prepared to reunite as a family unit again. The family being together again is obviously very important to Lauren especially, her reaction after she'd realised what she had done wrecking Tanya's wedding clearly showed that she wants her family together. The children are obviously vulnerable and suffering now that Kirsty is attempting to split their parents up again. Kirsty is showing no consideration at all for those kids. Her marriage to Max hardly even lasted six months, yet she is willing to rip apart a family for her own selfish gains. Any self respecting person would save themselves and just move on from this and allow Max to move forward with his children, after all it's the least they deserve.

Kirsty seems very childish and hates to lose, and is prepared to do anything to get her way, including separating children from their parents and manipulating and taunting people. There really isn't a defence for her behaviour on the Square so far, and I don't think her marriage to Max is a valid reason to justify what she has been doing so far. She has not been reasonable or civil, she needs to accept that the marriage is over and just move on they weren't even married a year. Max may have lingering feelings for Kirsty, but if he wants to commit to Tanya and his kids again he has every right to.
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Old 13-01-2013, 12:11
Salome
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A sexually confident, independent woman who exposes the hypocrisy of an established male character wlll be perceived as a villain by the moral majority.
It is however obvious that EE is setting Kirsty up as a threat to the Brannings in melodramatic mode but it remains to be seen if she will develop into a character in her own right rather than a symptom of the perverse relationship between Max and Tanya.
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Old 13-01-2013, 14:14
Kenkennedykenne
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@jerseyporter - Excellent post with well thought out reasoned arguments
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Old 13-01-2013, 14:42
Rhumbatugger
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Seperation requires agreement by both partners. In Kirsy's case she was deserted.

Agree with the gist of your post though...and I'm loving her work. She's given the show a much needed lift. Anything less than castration will leave me disappointed.
As far as I know - and it happened to me, albeit some years ago, you are 'separated' when you are no longer live together. I had no claim on anything my husband bought etc. from when he left.

Separation does NOT require 'agreement' by both partners, the fact that they are no longer living together and one of them considers them separated is enough.


The opinion of the kicked out husband or wife who stalks and considers themselves still in a relationship is not counted. They are separated.

Thus Max and Kirsty are de facto separated and have been for over a year, whatever she thinks.

A sexually confident, independent woman who exposes the hypocrisy of an established male character wlll be perceived as a villain by the moral majority.
It is however obvious that EE is setting Kirsty up as a threat to the Brannings in melodramatic mode but it remains to be seen if she will develop into a character in her own right rather than a symptom of the perverse relationship between Max and Tanya.
Don't understand this. She may be sexually confident, she may be a complete mess who has nothing BUT her sexuality which she uses.

It doesn't make HER confident as a whole person. And certainly her behaviour so far strongly suggests two options, as another poster has said.

She is a deluded bunny boiler, desperately 'in love' (not real love).

Or she's an arch villainess who's out for revenge - which is fun, but also seriously pathetic.

I'm not judging her because of some sexist agenda.

I think she LACKS proper confidence and self respect and a sense of self worth.

If she was 'independent' she'd have sorted it out and realised Max wasn't that into her and got on with her life.

She's terrible - but it's all fun.

And comparing her to others in the scenario doesn't change her actions and the way she's been represented.
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