[big bro geek]

My first Eurovision memory was Cat Cat for Finland in 1994. My parents said I was obsessed with the song( or maybe it was their interesting attire). Was a fan ever since

[rosetta12]

Originally Posted by big bro geek

My first Eurovision memory was Cat Cat for Finland in 1994. My parents said I was obsessed with the song( or maybe it was their interesting attire).

Glad to know it's made such an everlasting impression on someone, even though we were at the bottom of the scoreboard then, as usual.

Originally Posted by jan_leeming

Should mention at this stage that I also remember watching Bucks Fizz's victory in 1981. In my defence though that is also one of the first contests I ever recall watching (*am archaic*).

Hmm, I don't get it, why should age need a defence or apology..?

[jan_leeming]

Originally Posted by rosetta12

Glad to know it's made such an everlasting impression on someone, even though we were at the bottom of the scoreboard then, as usual.


Hmm, I don't get it, why should age need a defence or apology..?

Because when you get to my advanced age you realise everybody else in the whole world is basically younger than you xx

[steeleuro_wolf]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

Until we stop sending crap songs and/or performers to Eurovision we ain't going to win again anytime soon. It's about time we drew on Britain's heritage of bloody good rock music and sent someone who'll give it a bit of bollocks instead of the usual dreary predictable sub-r'n'b drivel. If it was done well, it'd stand out from the rest - just think Lordi.

I agree with this. In fact, thinking about it have we ever sent a rock song to eurovision? Time for that to change I think, as a genre it's probably our biggest musical export after all.

[rosetta12]

Originally Posted by jan_leeming

Because when you get to my advanced age you realise everybody else in the whole world is basically younger than you xx

I'm probably about the same age as you, if not more (based on your earliest ESC memory) And it's not that everybody else is younger, far from it, the younger ones just make more noise about themselves

[Glyn W]

Originally Posted by steeleuro_wolf

I agree with this. In fact, thinking about it have we ever sent a rock song to eurovision? Time for that to change I think, as a genre it's probably our biggest musical export after all.

How about the last two times we won it? Katrina & The Waves was soft rock and Bucks Fizz was rock'n'roll. How's that for a convincing argument? We keep sending dreary identikit pop and then wonder why no-one votes for it.

Oh, and in reply to the original OP, the first time I can remember the ESC was when it was won by Abba in 1974.

[21stCenturyBoy]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

How about the last two times we won it? Katrina & The Waves was soft rock and Bucks Fizz was rock'n'roll. How's that for a convincing argument? We keep sending dreary identikit pop and then wonder why no-one votes for it.

I'd hardly call either of those "rock" in the sense steeleuro meant.

Finland have probably sent the closest to "real" rock at the contest (especially Hanna & the band in 2008 that I can't even think about spelling) and have had mixed success with it.

Czech Republic showed the perils of sending rock when they sent the absolutely dreadful Mala dama (which is probably one of the worst Eurovision songs EVER in my opinion!)

[Glyn W]

Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy

I'd hardly call either of those "rock" in the sense steeleuro meant.

Yes, they're not full-blooded rock numbers, but they are the most rock-oriented UK entries I can remember, and they both won.

[globbits]

Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy

I'd hardly call either of those "rock" in the sense steeleuro meant.

Finland have probably sent the closest to "real" rock at the contest (especially Hanna & the band in 2008 that I can't even think about spelling) and have had mixed success with it.

Czech Republic showed the perils of sending rock when they sent the absolutely dreadful Mala dama (which is probably one of the worst Eurovision songs EVER in my opinion!)

Turkey like trying to send rock fairly regularly as well, and don't forget they got 2nd with maNga in 2010.

[Glyn W]

Originally Posted by globbits

Turkey like trying to send rock fairly regularly as well, and don't forget they got 2nd with maNga in 2010.

They do now, once they realised that the ethnic stuff they kept sending always sank without trace. It seems it's a lesson we're not willing to learn.

[penguinperson]

1994-1996 the BBC with Johnathan King did things that were different to other songs typically entered at the time. In 1997 they go back to very generic ESC & achieve a runaway victory. Past success as such can hinder difference.

[rosetta12]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

They do now, once they realised that the ethnic stuff they kept sending always sank without trace.

Not really - in 2003 they won with the "ethnic stuff", in 2007 & 2009 came 4th, and their last year's entry (7th) could also be seen as fairly ethnic.

[Saturn]

Originally Posted by rosetta12

Not really - in 2003 they won with the "ethnic stuff", in 2007 & 2009 came 4th, and their last year's entry (7th) could also be seen as fairly ethnic.

That was all ethnopop though. Their old entries were full on ethnic.

[Chrysalis]

was 1997 before all the new countries entered?

there is now a lot of neghbourly and political voting I think so it seems very unlikely we will win again, but also our entries are not that great either.

[EuroChris]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

was 1997 before all the new countries entered?

there is now a lot of neghbourly and political voting I think so it seems very unlikely we will win again, but also our entries are not that great either.

Germany used to be in the exact same position as us but in 2010 the German TV station that takes part in Eurovision completely revamped their approach and won. They've also been in the top 10 in 2011 and 2012.

Sweden also had a poor run of results from 2007-2010 but in 2012 they won with the second biggest landslide in Eurovision history.

Norway, the country with most ever last places, won with the biggest ever landslide in 2009.

The whole 'neighbourly voting' thing is an excuse for us consistently sending poor songs. Any country can win, they just have to put in the effort.

[Glyn W]

Originally Posted by EuroChris

The whole 'neighbourly voting' thing is an excuse for us consistently sending poor songs. Any country can win, they just have to put in the effort.

It is. Take out the votes from the 'new' countries and I think only once would it have altered the winner.

[penguinperson]

If we enter Kimba I can see us coming last

[globbits]

Originally Posted by penguinperson

If we enter Kimba I can see us coming last

And totally deserving it.

[Saturn]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

It is. Take out the votes from the 'new' countries and I think only once would it have altered the winner.

Is that 2011?

It makes for interesting results if you leave in just the old countries - I substituted Yugoslavia for Serbia.

01 Sweden 108
02 Ireland 95
03 Italy 90
04 Denmark 89
05 Azerbaijan 89
06 Bosnia and Herzegovina 85
07 Germany 74
08 Ukraine 52
09 Romania 51
10 France 49
11 Iceland 48
12 United Kingdom 46
13 Finland 44
14 Moldova 43
15 Hungary 40
16 Slovenia 40
17 Greece 37
18 Austria 31
19 Serbia 31
20 Spain 28
21 Lithuania 27
22 Estonia 25
23 Russia 21
24 Georgia 18
25 Switzerland 15

[Saturn]

2008 changed too...

More clarification needed Glyn

01 Armenia 100
02 Russia 93
03 Ukraine 92
04 Greece 91
05 Norway 90
06 Bosnia and Herzegovina 69
07 Turkey 64
08 Iceland 62
09 Serbia 60
10 Latvia 52
11 Portugal 48
12 Denmark 42
13 Spain 41
14 Sweden 40
15 Israel 39
16 Romania 32
17 Azerbaijan 28
18 Georgia 23
19 France 22
20 Albania 19
21 Finland 18
22 Poland 14
23 Croatia 11
24 United Kingdom 8
25 Germany 2

[Glyn W]

Originally Posted by Saturn

Is that 2011?

To be honest I can't remember. But there's an even easier way to show that 'local voting' doesn't determine the result.

If it did, the same few countries would win year after year because they'd be voting each other as winners. Now go and look at a list of winning countries for the past 25 years.

Sure, local voting goes on but a good song will always rise above it because it gets votes from everybody. If local voting determined the winner Greece and Cyprus would have won it a damn sight more than they have!

And, of course, the more countries that vote, the more diluted the effect of local voting becomes....

[Saturn]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

To be honest I can't remember. But there's an even easier way to show that 'local voting' doesn't determine the result.

If it did, the same few countries would win year after year because they'd be voting each other as winners. Now go and look at a list of winning countries for the past 25 years.

Sure, local voting goes on but a good song will always rise above it because it gets votes from everybody. If local voting determined the winner Greece and Cyprus would have won it a damn sight more than they have!

Not patronising at all

No a country cannot win purely on their annual support, but it can swing a result. Belgium were very unlucky not to win 2003 against the Turkish diaspora.

[Glyn W]

So why don't Turkey win every year then if their vote is so strong?

[phill363]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

So why don't Turkey win every year then if their vote is so strong?

Its not that strong, it just made their win easier in 2003

[Saturn]

Originally Posted by Glyn W

So why don't Turkey win every year then if their vote is so strong?

The song put them in the mix, the diaspora got them over the line. Turkey themselves gave Belgium 7 and the Turkish diaspora in Belgium gave them 12 back. Even removing those points from the result gives Belgium the win.