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Utopia, C4&HD, 10pm, 15-22-29 Jan 5-12 Feb


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Old 06-02-2013, 14:49
Virgil Tracy
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is the nathan stuart jarret character an undercover operative as well ?
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Old 06-02-2013, 15:45
Gatehouse
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Cool. That's interesting. But what's the connection to the Russian Flu/DEALS?

On a more amusing note, I'd laugh if Mr Rabbit is a man in a suit with a rabbit's head
There are a few moments that have reminded me of Donnie Darko, notably the soundtrack.

Ideally there will be an interrogation of the rabbit outside the comic book store;

"Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit?"
"Why are you wearing that stupid man-suit?"
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Old 06-02-2013, 15:49
Gatehouse
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[quote=Barrie Williams;64095982] there is a really obvious example of bad continuation, where in the shot looking at Ian, there are two plastic cups on the table and then when the camera cuts to Becky there is only one cup on the table and she has the other in her hand!QUOTE]

It sounds to me like..

Spoiler
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Old 06-02-2013, 15:56
Gatehouse
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Interesting thoughts and observations. I think one possibility concerning the rabbit connection could be that Jessica and Arby are actually both of Mr Rabbit's children.
Also concerning Alice, maybe she's the key to finding Mr Rabbit? She's the only one who can go down the rabbit hole so to speak. Seeing as she read the comic, it's possible she knows something about Mr Rabbit the others don't.

I'm with your on the idea that by reading the comic, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think Arby read his own future in the comic and is attempting to embrace it by contacting Jessica - their stories are obviously linked. Arby realised he had a different role to play than the one he has been playing for years as a Network lackey.

As for the rabbit hole, it could be that by finding Mr Rabbit, they are going to be lead down the rabbit hole so to speak to a different reality - meaning a new "utopian" future which the Network are trying to achieve? Or maybe the meaning is more literal... maybe an alternate reality? There have been a few references in the show about "reality", especially in Episode 1 when Wilson described the comic as "a doorway into reality" - what does that mean? I'm just rambling here, sorry .
I think it's fair to disregard Wilson's early comment about "a door to an alternate reality" as part of the establishment of his character's background as a conspiracy-nut. I don't think there is any literal different reality going on-and the people who thought there was a Matrix/"it's a dream"/"they are in the comic book!" twist are probably looking for things that aren't there (like us, eh Barrie? ).

But in a more realistic sense, yeah, if The Network pull off the culling of the human race and the genetic modification of most of the survivors-well, there's your new reality. No need for fancy parallel worlds or anything, more the wiping out of one order of things to be replaced with one more ameniable to those calling the shots.
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Old 06-02-2013, 20:29
Alrightmate
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I think it's fair to disregard Wilson's early comment about "a door to an alternate reality" as part of the establishment of his character's background as a conspiracy-nut. I don't think there is any literal different reality going on-and the people who thought there was a Matrix/"it's a dream"/"they are in the comic book!" twist are probably looking for things that aren't there (like us, eh Barrie? ).

But in a more realistic sense, yeah, if The Network pull off the culling of the human race and the genetic modification of most of the survivors-well, there's your new reality. No need for fancy parallel worlds or anything, more the wiping out of one order of things to be replaced with one more ameniable to those calling the shots.
I disagree with that because what Wilson said is plausible enough. It doesn't necessarily mean that he's thinking of it like the Matrix, he could just mean what he says.
Although it's fair to say that Wilson has a habit of leaping to conclusions and probably leading himself to one or two false assumptions when he gets carried away.

For example for a conspiracy to hide things from the public isn't that far of a stretch. We often live a life oblivious to conspiracies until they are eventually uncovered by a whistle blower. Which from time to time they are.
If you live a life ignorant in bliss then you actually would be perceiving a different reality if the truth was that you're being manipulated or deceived to a greater or lesser extent. Even if the deception is of the mildest of forms.
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Old 06-02-2013, 21:19
derek500
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Does anyone know why Utopia started off destined for Sky1, but ended up on C4?
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Old 06-02-2013, 21:33
T.K. Mazin
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I'm a bit disturbed to see Gatehouse and TK egging each other on with their ever more ludicrous theories, trying to find something that doesn't exist in every scene!

The one thing that I was able to make a final decision on last night was that of the clumsy editing and bad continuation. Being an editor myself I had noticed it several times and just thought that it was part of their style, but then last night in the scene where Becky and Ian were at the table tennis table there is a really obvious example of bad continuation, where in the shot looking at Ian, there are two plastic cups on the table and then when the camera cuts to Becky there is only one cup on the table and she has the other in her hand!

Shocking, shoddy and unforgivable to be honest, but no doubt Gatehouse will see some deep reasoning behind it.

Having said that, I am still watching it, although I did find last nights programme terribly slow and like others have noted, I really can't understand why, if the network did know where the group are, they just didn't send in a group of people to get rid of them rather than the obviously malfunctioning Arby.

Oh and by the way, several here have compared the series to other programmes so I'll tell you what it reminds me of. 'Five Go to....' and all that sff, only with added violence!
Lol *sniff* *sniff*, do I smell a troll? I think I do . I've only been using this thread for a few days and already I've spotted one . Do you really have nothing better to do than insult people for merely enjoying a show that you so obviously don't? Please grow up. If you hate the show so much, don't watch it - simple . Let the rest of us enjoy it.

To be honest, I'm more disturbed that a 40 odd year old feels the need to act like an immature, moronic little boy on a TV forum to be honest . It's shockingly pathetic really .

See, the thing with theories is that - they're just that - theories. We're speculating through what we've seen or heard onscreen. Doesn't matter how ridiculous and possible they are. My advice: Try not to get too worked up by it . I know it physically hurts you to see others enjoying it, but get over it.
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Old 06-02-2013, 21:41
T.K. Mazin
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I'm not, I love it.
I love to see posters coming up with creative theories about shows such as this and Life on Mars. It's sometimes what hooks me into a series.
I love reading posts such as the ones on this thread which get my own creative juices flowing.
It doesn't matter if the theories are wrong. It can be just as satisfying for posters to collaborate with theories as it sort of almost creates new original stories.

Anyway, it's no different to what the characters in the story themselves are doing with the comic book.
Haha, thanks . That's good to know.
Yep, that's the whole point of creating theories - it's a way of speculating about the story and creating interesting discussions out of it.

But I think Barrie What's-his-Face would prefer all of us to just mindlessly trash the show like he is . Bless him .
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:02
T.K. Mazin
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Does anyone know why Utopia started off destined for Sky1, but ended up on C4?
Not sure, derek. You might need to google it. I tried looking myself, but couldn't find anything. I wasn't aware it was originally suppose to air on Sky. Interesting.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:24
Barrie Williams
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Haha, thanks . That's good to know.
Yep, that's the whole point of creating theories - it's a way of speculating about the story and creating interesting discussions out of it.

But I think Barrie What's-his-Face would prefer all of us to just mindlessly trash the show like he is . Bless him .
OK. My favourite programmes are Homeland, Have I Got News for you, Borgen, The Killing, and John Stewarts Daily Show. I never watch soaps or reality TV. My favourite films are the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo trilogy, (with Swedish Subtitles), Usual Suspects, District 9, Moon and Close Encounters.

All of those are first class, first rate productions covering quite a range of styles and subjests. My comments about Utopia are that it is over stylised with the content not really matching the style. I'm not a troll (look back at some of my other posts) who is mindlessly trashing it, I just think that your and Gatehouse's theories are fanciful and that you are allowing yourself to ignore the major flaws in the story.

However I will watch the final two programmes with interest just to see how it does work out and then we can chat about it some more. I'm happy to do that, as Gatehouse says, there is nothing wrong with a bit of jousting, but don't call me a troll just because I disagree with you!

I'm not 40 by the way, but 50 and believe it or not, I am still allowed my own opinion even at that age!
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:27
T.K. Mazin
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I think it's fair to disregard Wilson's early comment about "a door to an alternate reality" as part of the establishment of his character's background as a conspiracy-nut. I don't think there is any literal different reality going on-and the people who thought there was a Matrix/"it's a dream"/"they are in the comic book!" twist are probably looking for things that aren't there (like us, eh Barrie? ).

But in a more realistic sense, yeah, if The Network pull off the culling of the human race and the genetic modification of most of the survivors-well, there's your new reality. No need for fancy parallel worlds or anything, more the wiping out of one order of things to be replaced with one more ameniable to those calling the shots.
Indeed. I did take the "doorway to reality" comment as another one of Wilson's crazy conspiracy theroes, but I couldn't help thinking it was a hint at the same time. However, always good to speculate (Oh wait, did I just speculate?! Barrie will be on my case ) and keep an open mind about things. I suppose the idea of an alternate reality at play would be maybe too OTT as it seems Dennis Kelly has gone to great lengths to ground the show in reality as much as possible.

Yes, that is something I suggested on the other Utopia thread. The idea of the Network using the mass cull to establish a "utopian" New World Order shaped to their power-hungry needs and whims. Also, another thing to consider... will we see certain ethnic minorities such as black and asian people being culled or wiped out? We know that Carvel was some kind of Nazi reject and wanted to cull certain races, and we know the vaccine is selectively targetting them for termination...
If we do get a Series 2, maybe the ongoing direction of the show will be about the establishment of this twisted Utopia and the characters' attempts to destroy it and bring back the old order? I can certainly see many possibilities if they went in this direction.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:45
T.K. Mazin
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OK. My favourite programmes are Homeland, Have I Got News for you, Borgen, The Killing, and John Stewarts Daily Show. I never watch soaps or reality TV. My favourite films are the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo trilogy, (with Swedish Subtitles), Usual Suspects, District 9, Moon and Close Encounters.

All of those are first class, first rate productions covering quite a range of styles and subjests. My comments about Utopia are that it is over stylised with the content not really matching the style. I'm not a troll (look back at some of my other posts) who is mindlessly trashing it, I just think that your and Gatehouse's theories are fanciful and that you are allowing yourself to ignore the major flaws in the story.

However I will watch the final two programmes with interest just to see how it does work out and then we can chat about it some more. I'm happy to do that, as Gatehouse says, there is nothing wrong with a bit of jousting, but don't call me a troll just because I disagree with you!

I'm not 40 by the way, but 50 and believe it or not, I am still allowed my own opinion even at that age!
Okay, fair enough , but why be rude about it? Just say you don't agree with our theories and move on. We create theories out of what we see and hear onscreen, we don't just make it up out of thin air as your original post is suggesting. I honestly couldn't care less if you disagree with me or not - that's not why I called you a troll - it's your forum manners that I am referring to. There's just no need to dismiss posters with mocking remarks as it feels like you're singling posters out and personally I feel unwelcome on a thread when a poster resorts to that behaviour.
For the record, I don't really think you're a troll - I was just joking , but I've noticed you have been a bit rude to posters (Gatehouse in particular) for simply enjoying Utopia. Just let the guy enjoy it and make his theories - myself included. If you don't agree - that's your right, but be a bit grown up about it. That's all I'm saying .

Anyway, I notcied you have similar tastes to me as I'm big fan of Homeland, District 9 and Usual Suspects .
LOL, I know 50 year olds are allowed their own opinions . Damn, I feel kind of bad now for having a go at you . You actually seem like a decent bloke, Barrie.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:22
Gatehouse
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I disagree with that because what Wilson said is plausible enough. It doesn't necessarily mean that he's thinking of it like the Matrix, he could just mean what he says.
Although it's fair to say that Wilson has a habit of leaping to conclusions and probably leading himself to one or two false assumptions when he gets carried away.

For example for a conspiracy to hide things from the public isn't that far of a stretch. We often live a life oblivious to conspiracies until they are eventually uncovered by a whistle blower. Which from time to time they are.
If you live a life ignorant in bliss then you actually would be perceiving a different reality if the truth was that you're being manipulated or deceived to a greater or lesser extent. Even if the deception is of the mildest of forms.


I work for the government, we lie to the public all the time, granted. But Wilson himself doesn't even know what the hell he's rambling on about in that scene! To quote him, "I don't know...I'm a bit drunk". At any rate, he was generally talking about Utopia hinting at hidden realities-not at us all living in a computer, a comic, or "not being real, maaaaan"
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:20
Gatehouse
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That said, Wilson is an ironic character anyway: he's portrayed as an uber-conspiracy theorist and a "bit of a loser". We're meant to think he's paranoid-even Becky and Ian do at the start (especially boring, normal Ian). Even his own dad also thinks he's a bit sad. As the story unfolds, it suddenly looks as if Wilson isn't so crazy after all...He grows to trust Becky & Ian only to find out at the end of Ep 4 that even they've been lying to him (about his dad). He's right to be paranoid, he can't trust anybody, not even his (seemingly) friends, and there is a massive "government" conspiracy!




@Barrie-the above are my observations based upon things on the screen, not in my fevered imagination. I really don't mind a debate or discussion-in fact, I like one!-but I don't like the generalisations you make without much to back them up. It's irritating to be portrayed as someone who is reading things into the story that aren't there when I think I've swerved most of the major red-herrings and been well ahead of the curve with some of the major themes that have emerged. I consider the characters to have depth, it's just we don't know the full story about them-to find out more of that, you have to really pay attention to what they do and say and how they act. Almost like you would a character in a book-maybe that's another nod to graphic novels.

For example, I keep reading people talk about Dugdale being the hero, the every-man who has been wronged and victimised. But look at his behaviour: he's been sleeping with a prostitute behind his wife's back whilst they are having IVF treatment ("No wanking in there, mucky little puppy, IVF clinic on Friday!"..well, he's been doing a lot worse than that!). Then look at his general behaviour-he lies and bluffs constantly, not always with "just" cause. He costs his boss his job. His first scene is an abortive suicide attempt by a man who hates what he's become. He only helps others (the journo, Donaldson...Geoff ) to help himself or when he has nowhere else to turn. He's prepared to risk his wife getting brutally raped. Not exactly your every-man hero, is he?!? Again, he's a complicated, conflicted character who is at a totally skewed perspective from everything going on around him. He's not even sure why he's doing what he's doing any more..Ultimately, I think his hitting of rock-bottom as a man has allowed him to effectively sacrifice what's left of his broken self to try and regain some kind of moral redemption. That's good enough for us to root for him in a questing, comic-book way.


In terms of continuity errors-if there are tiny technical details that have zero bearing on the story, I think I can safely ignore them in favour of using my attention span to read the many other things that are (and they are!) going on!
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:26
Barrie Williams
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That said, Wilson is an ironic character anyway: he's portrayed as an uber-conspiracy theorist and a "bit of a loser". We're meant to think he's paranoid-even Becky and Ian do at the start (especially boring, normal Ian). Even his own dad also thinks he's a bit sad. As the story unfolds, it suddenly looks as if Wilson isn't so crazy after all...He grows to trust Becky & Ian only to find out at the end of Ep 4 that even they've been lying to him (about his dad). He's right to be paranoid, he can't trust anybody, not even his (seemingly) friends, and there is a massive "government" conspiracy!




@Barrie-the above are my observations based upon things on the screen, not in my fevered imagination. I really don't mind a debate or discussion-in fact, I like one!-but I don't like the generalisations you make without much to back them up. It's irritating to be portrayed as someone who is reading things into the story that aren't there when I think I've swerved most of the major red-herrings and been well ahead of the curve with some of the major themes that have emerged. I consider the characters to have depth, it's just we don't know the full story about them-to find out more of that, you have to really pay attention to what they do and say and how they act. Almost like you would a character in a book-maybe that's another nod to graphic novels.

For example, I keep reading people talk about Dugdale being the hero, the every-man who has been wronged and victimised. But look at his behaviour: he's been sleeping with a prostitute behind his wife's back whilst they are having IVF treatment ("No wanking in there, mucky little puppy, IVF clinic on Friday!"..well, he's been doing a lot worse than that!). Then look at his general behaviour-he lies and bluffs constantly, not always with "just" cause. He costs his boss his job. His first scene is an abortive suicide attempt by a man who hates what he's become. He only helps others (the journo, Donaldson...Geoff ) to help himself or when he has nowhere else to turn. He's prepared to risk his wife getting brutally raped. Not exactly your every-man hero, is he?!? Again, he's a complicated, conflicted character who is at a totally skewed perspective from everything going on around him. He's not even sure why he's doing what he's doing any more..Ultimately, I think his hitting of rock-bottom as a man has allowed him to effectively sacrifice what's left of his broken self to try and regain some kind of moral redemption. That's good enough for us to root for him in a questing, comic-book way.


In terms of continuity errors-if there are tiny technical details that have zero bearing on the story, I think I can safely ignore them in favour of using my attention span to read the many other things that are (and they are!) going on!
Nice post and true, but the one thing that everyone has missed about Jessica is that she just wants to be normal and just wants to be loved, but doesn't know how to go about it. Take her behavior around Grant and that dodgy kiss of Ian. Also others are saying that if the virus was in the crisps... Well it isn't yet is it?
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:11
Erlang
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Is there any confirmation that Jessica "is" Jessica, other than her own announcement? (disregarding TV credits)

Arby (RB) continuing to ask her whereabouts even when confronted with "her"?
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Old 07-02-2013, 13:55
SilvioDante
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One thing is for sure, I'm going to have to watch all the episodes over again, before the Finale! Great thread folks
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:02
InTheLoop
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Is there any confirmation that Jessica "is" Jessica, other than her own announcement? (disregarding TV credits)

Arby (RB) continuing to ask her whereabouts even when confronted with "her"?
That's a good point I was thinking similar. She could just be the only person who has ever said "yes" im jessica, all the others just panic and say don't know.
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:23
Gatehouse
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Nice post and true, but the one thing that everyone has missed about Jessica is that she just wants to be normal and just wants to be loved, but doesn't know how to go about it. Take her behavior around Grant and that dodgy kiss of Ian. Also others are saying that if the virus was in the crisps... Well it isn't yet is it?
I agree with the bit about Jessica, her feelings of loneliness and isolation and her attempts (usually failing abysmally) at empathy have been something that stand out (I didn't miss it ). What I don't think anybody knows is why; she seems almost inhuman at times, but it could be the lack of parents and traumatic upbringing, it could be that she's been genetically modified and experimented on by her father, she might be a robot(!), or she might just be a "skinny bitch evil murderess" by nature (her dad was a Eugenics freak..).

Re: crisps..no, they aren't infected, the only thing the food corporation have done so far that we know of is to put their special "harmless" protein into the food-chain. Some people, especially on the Guardian blog. seem very keen on the theory that Jessica carries/is the antidote and the kiss of Ian is her transferring the cure to him, implying that he is infected, but it's more than a bit clumsy and slightly rubbish if that is what's going on there!
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:28
Barrie Williams
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Some people, especially on the Guardian blog. seem very keen on the theory that Jessica carries/is the antidote and the kiss of Ian is her transferring the cure to him, implying that he is infected, but it's more than a bit clumsy and slightly rubbish if that is what's going on there!
She's have to kiss an awful lot of people if that's the case!
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:46
QwertyGirl1771
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That's a good point I was thinking similar. She could just be the only person who has ever said "yes" im jessica, all the others just panic and say don't know.
I was thinking the same and even thought Becky could be Jessica, but I could be way off the mark.
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Old 07-02-2013, 16:12
Servalan
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Not sure, derek. You might need to google it. I tried looking myself, but couldn't find anything. I wasn't aware it was originally suppose to air on Sky. Interesting.
What evidence is there that Utopia was originally commissioned by Sky? I love a conspiracy theory, but even I can't quite believe that one ...
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Old 07-02-2013, 19:17
T.K. Mazin
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What evidence is there that Utopia was originally commissioned by Sky? I love a conspiracy theory, but even I can't quite believe that one ...
I haven't a clue, Servalan. Haven't a clue. I assumed the other poster was telling the truth, but I realised he must have been speculating. And I did do some google searches and found nothing whatsoever, so there's no evidence to suggest Sky commissioned the show. I believe Utopia was always meant to air on Channel 4 as Kudos approached them with the script.
So as of this moment, it is a conspiracy theory as you said .
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Old 07-02-2013, 19:50
Semierotic
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I've heard ratings for this aren't great, is it really getting a second series?
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Old 07-02-2013, 21:28
Corwin
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Re: crisps..no, they aren't infected, the only thing the food corporation have done so far that we know of is to put their special "harmless" protein into the food-chain.
My guess is the Protein is harmless until combined with the Flu Vacine (also harmless on it's own).

However once combined they will kill off X% of the Population.
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