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Old 23-03-2013, 22:30
candyfloss2000
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anyone watching? Ive caught it half way and it seems quite sad. Poor chimp. Gonna watch it from the start now.
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:38
Doghouse Riley
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I started to watch this and found it sad and in places quite creepy, the woman was actually breast-feeding it!
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:44
owllover
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I started to watch this and found it sad and in places quite creepy, the woman was actually breast-feeding it!
I'm glued and horrified Doghouse. This sort of research felt normal in the experimental seventies but I didn't know about research grant rivalries then.

This is so cruel.
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:47
spookyLX
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This is so sad
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:50
InTheLoop
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i have missed some of it why didn't nim remain with herb and the young woman?
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:53
spookyLX
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i have missed some of it why didn't nim remain with herb and the young woman?
He grew up and became too much for them to handle also ran out of money ,
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:53
owllover
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i have missed some of it why didn't nim remain with herb and the young woman?
Chimps are strong and powerful and dangerous. It was a terrible thing to do to him.
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:55
InTheLoop
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That ranch lady is really nice but obviously out of her depth handling a non equine animal
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:57
enfant_terrible
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This makes me so angry I could punch a wall. Humanity just disgusts me at times. The mental abuse inflicted on this poor chimpanzee. They rip him from his mother at birth ... then use him for a linguistic 'experiment' ... and eventually dump him in a medical testing facility ... etc etc ... it's revolting.

The 'humans' involved should hang their heads in shame.
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Old 23-03-2013, 22:58
owllover
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Stupid stupid woman. He doesn't have a human life nature.
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:01
InTheLoop
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They should have kept him with herb as he obviously didn't do anything wrong (the one time he did he sign languaged "sorry" to the womans face he partially ripped) it would have been so interesting to find out how an adult chimp would react in a human setting
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:03
spookyLX
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They should have kept him with herb as he obviously didn't do anything wrong (the one time he did he sign languaged "sorry" to the womans face he partially ripped) it would have been so interesting to find out how an adult chimp would react in a human setting
Herb was the one who dumped him in the first place, Herb then decided that they did not really learn much anyway
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:05
enfant_terrible
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They should have kept him with herb as he obviously didn't do anything wrong (the one time he did he sign languaged "sorry" to the womans face he partially ripped) it would have been so interesting to find out how an adult chimp would react in a human setting
Have we just watched the same programme?
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:17
owllover
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They should have kept him with herb as he obviously didn't do anything wrong (the one time he did he sign languaged "sorry" to the womans face he partially ripped) it would have been so interesting to find out how an adult chimp would react in a human setting
What do you think about the chimp who ripped off his owner's friend's face a couple of years ago? They're wild and dangerous, simple as.

Some years ago I sat chatting with a man who turned out to be a friend of John Aspinall. I didn't know that when I said how much I love animals but have a strong dislike for chimps. His head whipped round and he said that they're the most vicious of creatures.
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:32
tennisman
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This makes me so angry I could punch a wall. Humanity just disgusts me at times. The mental abuse inflicted on this poor chimpanzee. They rip him from his mother at birth ... then use him for a linguistic 'experiment' ... and eventually dump him in a medical testing facility ... etc etc ... it's revolting.

The 'humans' involved should hang their heads in shame.
Had no idea where the story was going until about half way through, like veil being drawn back, I realised what an appalling exercise the whole thing was.

From touchy/feely NYC in the 1970's to medical research labs (hep b serum must be tested on at least 4 chimps) to solitary confinement on a knackered horses ranch in Texas which had all the best intentions but was effectively putting Nim back in prison and solitary confinement too.

Was there one iota of contrition amongst any of them or were they too upset to admit it?

Large slugs of anthropomorphizing too, I reckon.
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Old 24-03-2013, 00:21
candyfloss2000
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i'm sorry, i got to the point where nim went to the medical lab, and i lost it. Please tell me it's a happy ending. I turned off and refuse to watch anymore. These arseholes USED this chimp for their own self indulgent research and ABANDONED him to go be used AGAIN in the most horrific way. Please tell me what happens after that, I just dont want to watch it.
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Old 24-03-2013, 00:57
spookyLX
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i'm sorry, i got to the point where nim went to the medical lab, and i lost it. Please tell me it's a happy ending. I turned off and refuse to watch anymore. These arseholes USED this chimp for their own self indulgent research and ABANDONED him to go be used AGAIN in the most horrific way. Please tell me what happens after that, I just dont want to watch it.
He was ' rescued ' but it was by someone quite naive so basically swapping one cage for another but it came good in the end as the place was taken over by someone else who helped rescue more chimps and the lab was eventually closed down
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Old 24-03-2013, 04:24
LIZALYNN
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This programme was very like the film Project x, Not the most recent film also called Project X, but the film with Matthew Broderick in it about Virgil the chimp.
Virgil was taught sign language and was due to go to a zoo but instead he was sent to a secret military test pilot place where he and other chimps were taught to fly simulator areoplanes.
I wondered if Nim's story inspired that film.
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Old 24-03-2013, 11:50
Prince Monalulu
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Heard a bit about this, must have been back when it was being produced, probably Frontrow.
Heard 'enough' then so decided to stay away from this, would have resulted in 'talking' to the TV.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfilms/ontv, probably a few external links off the BBC site for those who are interested.
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Old 24-03-2013, 14:18
mazzy50
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Had no idea where the story was going until about half way through, like veil being drawn back, I realised what an appalling exercise the whole thing was.

From touchy/feely NYC in the 1970's to medical research labs (hep b serum must be tested on at least 4 chimps) to solitary confinement on a knackered horses ranch in Texas which had all the best intentions but was effectively putting Nim back in prison and solitary confinement too.

Was there one iota of contrition amongst any of them or were they too upset to admit it?

Large slugs of anthropomorphizing too, I reckon.
Just watching this and I think the last two people who cared for him during Herb's 'experiment' and took him to the research facility were very contrite. They were both on the verge of tears recalling the trip to leave him there and they both said it was an awful way to treat him.

That isn't to say that I think the basic premise was acceptable - it wasn't. To treat Nim and Carlyn his mother in that way was very cruel.

I think the person I am most disgusted with is Herb. No compassion or caring at all as far as I can see.
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Old 24-03-2013, 17:42
tennisman
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Just watching this and I think the last two people who cared for him during Herb's 'experiment' and took him to the research facility were very contrite. They were both on the verge of tears recalling the trip to leave him there and they both said it was an awful way to treat him.

That isn't to say that I think the basic premise was acceptable - it wasn't. To treat Nim and Carlyn his mother in that way was very cruel.

I think the person I am most disgusted with is Herb. No compassion or caring at all as far as I can see.
Yes, you are right.

To be fair to the participants, maybe they were a little guarded about criticisms because of the extent of their bad feelings not because they didn't have any?

So many things in life are easy to make judgements on in hindsight but what planning had Herb done?

Where was such a project ever going to end up?

Who were Herb's bosses at Columbia? Was anyone reviewing the ethical / moral issues of the project from at least one step back?

It all came across as seat of the pants both in terms of planning and execution.

At least Nim lived out his last years with fellow chimps.

Is 26 years a good age or not for a chimp?
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Old 20-01-2014, 21:24
Prince Monalulu
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Just noticed this was on again on BBC 4, for anyone who's into animals, chimps in this case, might find it of interest.

BBC Films Project Nim.

Project Nim Synopsis

This is the story of Nim, the chimpanzee who in the 1970s became the focus of a landmark experiment which aimed to show that an ape could learn to communicate with language if raised and nurtured like a human child.

Following Nim's extraordinary journey through human society, this documentary feature examines the enduring impact he makes on the people he meets along the way; the film is an unflinching and unsentimental biography of an animal we tried to make human.
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Old 21-01-2014, 00:38
off the page
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Just caught the last half hour of this. Thought it was going to be an interesting documentary about animal communication. But it was so much more than that. Completely compelling viewing. Although as sad as it is, can't help thinking that Nim's story is just one of many thousands of captive, abused primates.
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