[louise1966]

Having watched both parts of the Lance Armstrong interview I have, obviously, developed my own opinions on both the man and his behaviour. Apparently, Ben Johnson - olympic cheat - has advised him that he can turn the negative publicity to his advantage. Whilst I would opine than Johnson is not a man I would be willing to accept counsel from I simultaneously gain the impression from his demeanor that Armstrong probably does not feel these are anywhere near as bad as what Johnson did when, in actuality, they are far worse; the drug abuse was more elaborate and on a broader scale. They are two peas in a pod, but a man who possesses Armstrong's arrogance, will always feel he is better than everybody else. Unlike the OP, I was not impressed by Oprah's reticence and her tame interviewing technique; there were questions she could have asked and persisted in getting answers to others he said he was 'not comfortable' in discussing. Basically, Lance Armstrong had a more publically acceptable image than Ben Johnson but, in reality, he was - and this is no insult to Ben Johnson - a much cleverer drug abuser and a bully. To call Emma O'Reilly a whore because she dared to voice her concerns about his drug involvement was plain insulting and smacks of a 'do you know who I am?' mentality. Oprah should have asked him why he never considered the effect his drug taking would have on his kids if it came out - she didn't push it. Oprah did use one word which described this supercilious individual ideally: narcissistic he most certainly is. But I do believe he is genuinely sorry - that he got caught!

[LongBallPlease]

Both cases are very similar really, in the 1980's drug use was massive in Athletics, I'd say most of the top atheltes had taken drugs at some point (check out the womens records from the 1980's that will never get beat imo), everyone in the sport knew you had to take drugs to win, Ben Johnson was caught out by the advances of the 1988 drug testing, check out the story on the amount of positive tests came from 1984 but nothing was done about it.

Cycling has had massive problems with drugs up until a few years ago, Armstrong will tell you that everyone was doing something to enhance performance and if you didn't you got left behind.

Obviously both guys did the wrong thing but if they stayed clean would we know who they were today? And would we be talking about two seperate drug cheats?

There's always been rumours around Carl Lewis, Flo-Jo and Linford Christie was actually banned for a positive test, the East Germans have admitted they doped all their athletes and their world records have only just been beat, the IAAF wouldn't wipe their records like they should with the womens records that still stand from the 80's.

[Syntax Error]

Originally Posted by LongBallPlease

Both cases are very similar really, in the 1980's drug use was massive in Athletics, I'd say most of the top atheltes had taken drugs at some point (check out the womens records from the 1980's that will never get beat imo), everyone in the sport knew you had to take drugs to win, Ben Johnson was caught out by the advances of the 1988 drug testing, check out the story on the amount of positive tests came from 1984 but nothing was done about it.

Cycling has had massive problems with drugs up until a few years ago, Armstrong will tell you that everyone was doing something to enhance performance and if you didn't you got left behind.

Obviously both guys did the wrong thing but if they stayed clean would we know who they were today? And would we be talking about two seperate drug cheats?

There's always been rumours around Carl Lewis, Flo-Jo and Linford Christie was actually banned for a positive test, the East Germans have admitted they doped all their athletes and their world records have only just been beat, the IAAF wouldn't wipe their records like they should with the womens records that still stand from the 80's.

Very true.

Some of those records are sickening, including Flo-Jo's & it is unlikely that her future grand-daughter will see her records broken.

OK, Flo-Jo is not an official cheat, but her metamorphosis from an average runner to a husky voiced titan with rippling muscles & master world record breaker in a short space of time is highly suspicious IMO.

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by LongBallPlease

Both cases are very similar really, in the 1980's drug use was massive in Athletics, I'd say most of the top atheltes had taken drugs at some point (check out the womens records from the 1980's that will never get beat imo), everyone in the sport knew you had to take drugs to win, Ben Johnson was caught out by the advances of the 1988 drug testing, check out the story on the amount of positive tests came from 1984 but nothing was done about it.

Cycling has had massive problems with drugs up until a few years ago, Armstrong will tell you that everyone was doing something to enhance performance and if you didn't you got left behind.

Obviously both guys did the wrong thing but if they stayed clean would we know who they were today? And would we be talking about two seperate drug cheats?

There's always been rumours around Carl Lewis, Flo-Jo and Linford Christie was actually banned for a positive test, the East Germans have admitted they doped all their athletes and their world records have only just been beat, the IAAF wouldn't wipe their records like they should with the womens records that still stand from the 80's.

Christie's positive test is a bit of a misnomer. Lots of athletes tested positive for nandrolone at the time, likely a contaminated supplement.

[Eater Sundae]

Originally Posted by LongBallPlease

Both cases are very similar really, in the 1980's drug use was massive in Athletics, I'd say most of the top atheltes had taken drugs at some point (check out the womens records from the 1980's that will never get beat imo), everyone in the sport knew you had to take drugs to win, Ben Johnson was caught out by the advances of the 1988 drug testing, check out the story on the amount of positive tests came from 1984 but nothing was done about it.

Cycling has had massive problems with drugs up until a few years ago, Armstrong will tell you that everyone was doing something to enhance performance and if you didn't you got left behind.

Obviously both guys did the wrong thing but if they stayed clean would we know who they were today? And would we be talking about two seperate drug cheats?

There's always been rumours around Carl Lewis, Flo-Jo and Linford Christie was actually banned for a positive test, the East Germans have admitted they doped all their athletes and their world records have only just been beat, the IAAF wouldn't wipe their records like they should with the womens records that still stand from the 80's.

Re first bib. In the BBC4 documentary about the Seoul Olympics 100mm final, which they occasionally repeat, one of the talking heads comments on the the way that some athletes used human growth hormones in the 80s. One of the side effects causes them to need to wear braces on their teeth - unusual for fully grown adults in their 20s, but not definitive evidence. A little while later there is an interview with an adult Carl Lewis, complete with...


...braces on his teeth. Great editing by the documentary maker, there.


Re second bib.. Yes, those East German athletes and their long lasting world records, such as the mens 800m world record from the 80s...

...Oh, wait

[LongBallPlease]

Originally Posted by Eater Sundae

Re first bib. In the BBC4 documentary about the Seoul Olympics 100mm final, which they occasionally repeat, one of the talking heads comments on the the way that some athletes used human growth hormones in the 80s. One of the side effects causes them to need to wear braces on their teeth - unusual for fully grown adults in their 20s, but not definitive evidence. A little while later there is an interview with an adult Carl Lewis, complete with...


...braces on his teeth. Great editing by the documentary maker, there.


Re second bib.. Yes, those East German athletes and their long lasting world records, such as the mens 800m world record from the 80s...

...Oh, wait

O.K, the East Germans dominated the womens events as they could gain a bigger advantage, check the records bud.

[Eater Sundae]

Originally Posted by LongBallPlease

O.K, the East Germans dominated the womens events as they could gain a bigger advantage, check the records bud.

So long lasting East German records must be due to doping. What explains long lasting western records?

[LongBallPlease]

Originally Posted by Eater Sundae

So long lasting East German records must be due to doping. What explains long lasting western records?

which records?
East Germany admitted to doping.
Imo, all or most female sprint records from the 80's are tainted.
I never said JUST East German records were tainted, read, think, respond, think, check your responce, edit.

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by Eater Sundae

Re first bib. In the BBC4 documentary about the Seoul Olympics 100mm final, which they occasionally repeat, one of the talking heads comments on the the way that some athletes used human growth hormones in the 80s. One of the side effects causes them to need to wear braces on their teeth - unusual for fully grown adults in their 20s, but not definitive evidence. A little while later there is an interview with an adult Carl Lewis, complete with...


...braces on his teeth. Great editing by the documentary maker, there.


Re second bib.. Yes, those East German athletes and their long lasting world records, such as the mens 800m world record from the 80s...

...Oh, wait

Drugs are far more effective in power events. These are the ones with the long lasting records.

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by Eater Sundae

So long lasting East German records must be due to doping. What explains long lasting western records?

Which long standing Western records are you referring to exactly?