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Old 20-03-2013, 10:02
Deep Purple
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Physioroom has Lennon out until the end of the month. Also has no return date for Daws (hamstring) and Bale (ankle injury) yet.
Lennon is a big miss for us.

Hopefully Bale will be okay by the time we play again, because with both of those out, we will struggle even more in attack.

Daws has been in such good form, and he is always a miss.

The break in games has come at a good time.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:37
Pee
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I don't think anyone ever said Defoe was perfect, Pee? But he's been far better than Ade this season IMO and has scored more regulalrly than him across their whole careers. I want a striker to score goals, and Defoe does that more often than Ade, Dempsey, Keane, Pav, Crouch and Rafa. The only two of our more recent front men that score more often than him are Berba and, somehow, Bent. Hence why I've always stuck up for him and defended him. I judge him on what he is, not on something he isn't ever going to be. He's been a good servent to the club too.

He's also had plenty of stick in general from Spurs fan, more so than Ade has I think from what I've seen. If you go on other forums, twitter etc, he's been getting slated all season, even when he was the only one scoring earlier in the season.
he really hasn't. take away his flurry of a few games at the beginning of the season, and he has been utterly abysmal for pretty much the rest of it

if you compare their Premier League records, then Defoe doesn't even't come anywhere near scoring more regularly than Adebayor, and that's taking into account this season which is probably the worst of his Adebayor's career while Defoe is more or less scoring at his usual rate. 80 goals (with 35 assists) in 189 games are numbers Defoe can only dream of. even if we compare their respective Tottenham records in the league, Adebayor still has a better ratio, and he contributes more in terms of direct assists and creating for others.

No mention of Ade and his lack of goals?

He has been the biggest disappointment this season in terms of not hitting the back of the net too often. I don't deny the guy works hard on the pitch but a return of 2 goals so far in the Premier League is pathetic really, even Lennon has scored 4.
do you mean apart from the 10,000 other times it's been mentioned in here (by me as much as anyone else) and everywhere else? he's been extremely poor this season, there's no getting away from it, but the amount of criticism he's gotten this season has been unreasonable. this whole "lazy" thing has been a lazy criticism in itself, not to mention a complete load of bollocks. I'm not his biggest fan by any means, and I was disappointed we made his move permanent last season because I was hoping for a better striker, but he's an easy scapegoat (yes, a lot of it is self-inflicted) and it's unfair. yes he's not getting the goals, but he has been working hard and trying to make things happen in other ways for the team, not hiding or being selfish.

meanwhile until recently, people have been pretending we don't have another striker in equally (and probably even moreso) woeful form, who despite said form continues to only look to go it alone and adds NOTHING to the team when he isn't in the middle of one of his annual flurries.

And on the point of 20+ goals a season, Ade's only got 20+ goals in the league (and in all comps) once. Whilst Defoe highest return in the league is 18, he's got 20+ on two occasions in all competitions.

I think we can all agree that both are in poor form right now though, and we do need to add to our strikeforce. I'd personally be happy to keep Defoe has part of that strikeforce, as I obviously think he has something to offer. Ade on the flipside, unless he bucks his ideas up, I wouldn't be bothered if he left.
I don't particularly rate either of them, truth be told, but it's a complete no-brainer who is the better of the two, or at least it should be. between the two, I'd definitely keep Adebayor as he has a lot more to offer when on-form than the completely one-dimensional Defoe. however, I'd much rather we got rid of both of them and brought in at least one better striker, if not two.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:53
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I think it was a huge mistake to sign Adebayor, when he refused to come until he was promised huge money to make up for the wages City were paying him. We gave him £4m to sign on, as well as paying him a massive wage.

Football, and his career, seemed a side issue to him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-worth-9m.html

“I’m back,” he said. “Tottenham, here I come. I’m hungry for goals ... Get ready.”
We're still waiting Ade!
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:20
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....I don't particularly rate either of them, truth be told, but it's a complete no-brainer who is the better of the two, or at least it should be. between the two, I'd definitely keep Adebayor as he has a lot more to offer when on-form than the completely one-dimensional Defoe. however, I'd much rather we got rid of both of them and brought in at least one better striker, if not two.
I don't disagree that Ade is the all round better player and contributes more in a game...but strikers are judged on goals at the end of the day.

Just a shame we couldn't land a top striker in January. Having two off form is a bit of a bummer for us. And I agree we probably need to bring in two, as Defoe isn't getting any younger.
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Old 20-03-2013, 11:49
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Fwiw, I've never liked Defoe, going back to when I was a season ticket holder and he hadn't a clue about the old off side law. He didn't really care either. Used to drive me batshit.

Several pages ago I did also mention his ratio of shots to goals and someone put up a stat that suggested it wasn't as bad as I thought. There now seems to be another stat that suggests something closer to the impression I have.

I never got carried away with his right-foot hollywood goals scored when he did get that half-a-yard against central defenders who either didn't know him well or were a bit average for the Premiership. And he still manages to get offside with this new law, and he still doesn't care.

Yep, not a fan.
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:24
shelleyj89
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I'd love to see who has been offside more often in the last couple of season, as Ade has been offside regularly this season.

he really hasn't. take away his flurry of a few games at the beginning of the season, and he has been utterly abysmal for pretty much the rest of it

if you compare their Premier League records, then Defoe doesn't even't come anywhere near scoring more regularly than Adebayor, and that's taking into account this season which is probably the worst of his Adebayor's career while Defoe is more or less scoring at his usual rate. 80 goals (with 35 assists) in 189 games are numbers Defoe can only dream of. even if we compare their respective Tottenham records in the league, Adebayor still has a better ratio, and he contributes more in terms of direct assists and creating for others.
But that bit you want to take is away is what makes his season better than Ade's. He is in double figures for goals, you can't just ignore that. And those goals have contributed to us being in a top 4 position.

It does come very near. They've both averaged a goal every 2.7 games in their league careers. In all competitions though, Defoe has averaged a goal every 2.4 games, and Ade every 2.8.

I don't particularly rate either of them, truth be told, but it's a complete no-brainer who is the better of the two, or at least it should be. between the two, I'd definitely keep Adebayor as he has a lot more to offer when on-form than the completely one-dimensional Defoe. however, I'd much rather we got rid of both of them and brought in at least one better striker, if not two.
It's not about it being a no-brianer, it's about opinions. We all have them, no-one is right or wrong. If you're looking at goal scorers, Defoe is the better of the two, in my opinion. I don't necessarily agree that Ade has more to offer. His tally of assists last season was a one-off. The nearest he's got to that in a season in all comps before is 7. This season he's added nothing that Defoe hasn't. Defoe though never was and is never going to be a striker who also chips in with an above average number of assists, so to judge him on that is unfair in my opinion, hence my comment about only judging him on what he is.

I think it's a bit of a myth that Ade offers more. I looked at the ESPN website, which is great for stats, and it has Ade averaging an asisst every 10.1 games, and Defoe every 10.7 games. It has Ade as a goal or an assist every 2.2 games, and Defoe every 2 games. (It doesn't have every international game included though, although I don't think that woul make much difference?)

Anywho, as I say everytime we discuss this, yet somehow I get drawn back in again, we should just agree to disagree. Whether it's because of age, or becaue we sell them, I don't see either being here for much longer or at the very least being first choice.
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:58
Pee
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I'd love to see who has been offside more often in the last couple of season, as Ade has been offside regularly this season.



But that bit you want to take is away is what makes his season better than Ade's. He is in double figures for goals, you can't just ignore that. And those goals have contributed to us being in a top 4 position.

It does come very near. They've both averaged a goal every 2.7 games in their league careers. In all competitions though, Defoe has averaged a goal every 2.4 games, and Ade every 2.8.



It's not about it being a no-brianer, it's about opinions. We all have them, no-one is right or wrong. If you're looking at goal scorers, Defoe is the better of the two, in my opinion. I don't necessarily agree that Ade has more to offer. His tally of assists last season was a one-off. The nearest he's got to that in a season in all comps before is 7. This season he's added nothing that Defoe hasn't. Defoe though never was and is never going to be a striker who also chips in with an above average number of assists, so to judge him on that is unfair in my opinion, hence my comment about only judging him on what he is.

I think it's a bit of a myth that Ade offers more. I looked at the ESPN website, which is great for stats, and it has Ade averaging an asisst every 10.1 games, and Defoe every 10.7 games. It has Ade as a goal or an assist every 2.2 games, and Defoe every 2 games. (It doesn't have every international game included though, although I don't think that woul make much difference?)

Anywho, as I say everytime we discuss this, yet somehow I get drawn back in again, we should just agree to disagree. Whether it's because of age, or becaue we sell them, I don't see either being here for much longer or at the very least being first choice.
Defoe has played nearly 40 games this season, and save for about 6 or 7 games where the bulk of his 14 goals have come in, he's been terrible. we're talking about 30 or so games or nearly 3/4 of the total games he's played in.

the only true like-for-like comparison is their Premier League records because they've played in different leagues, competitons, and against different opposition for the majority of the time, and on that score Adebayor's goal return is better (80 in 189 compared to 104 in 287), and it's the same for their league goals record for Tottenham.

assists aren't the only indicator of creating for others (even though Adebayor is ahead on that count too), and it doesn't take long actually watching them both to see that one is better in that regard to the other. Defoe is a selfish player, and isn't even looking to pass the ball for the large majority of the time, let alone creating for anyone else. it's been his biggest flaw since day one, and it doesn't seem to have ever been addressed in any great seriousness.

like I said, I'd prefer them to both be gone at the end of this season, but if they did, it's quite clear who would go to the bigger club, and command the bigger transfer fee and salary. it would be the better player.
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Old 20-03-2013, 13:46
Deep Purple
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I'm not sure any big club would want Adebayor now, and there would be a real reluctance to pay all the money he seems to think he is worth.

He had a decent season last year, in a side playing all out attacking football, with the likes of Bale, Lennon, Modric and VDV supporting him.

Prior to that, when did he do anything worthwhile?

Defoe would be in demand, not from the biggest clubs, but because he is more of a goal threat still.

He could easily have had two on Sunday, but for top saves/blocks by the keeper.
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Old 20-03-2013, 13:59
shelleyj89
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As I said, we'll never agree. I will try not to respond when you make a point of criticinsg Defoe next time, as it's pointless and we just end up at this point again.
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:18
soulboy77
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The Welsh camp expect Bale to be fit for their WC qualifier with Scotland on Friday, which is good news for us as long as he comes through the game unscathed.
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:41
Pee
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I'm not sure any big club would want Adebayor now, and there would be a real reluctance to pay all the money he seems to think he is worth.

He had a decent season last year, in a side playing all out attacking football, with the likes of Bale, Lennon, Modric and VDV supporting him.

Prior to that, when did he do anything worthwhile?

Defoe would be in demand, not from the biggest clubs, but because he is more of a goal threat still.

He could easily have had two on Sunday, but for top saves/blocks by the keeper.
from who? I honestly couldn't see a single bid coming in from any club in the top half of the table for Defoe. definitely not any of the big clubs, and I wouldn't be a first choice at Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle, or even teams like Swansea and West Brom if they were able to hold onto Michu and Lukaku respectively. so where then? realistically, we're looking at the likes of West Ham at best, or Stoke, Norwich, Wigan, Reading and Southampton etc

even with all the negative factors surrounding Adebayor, he'd definitely land a bigger club than those. definitely, no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:51
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Right now, they're both rubbish and frustrating.
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:53
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Right now, they're both rubbish and frustrating.
Hear, Hear!
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Old 20-03-2013, 15:10
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Hmm, don't quite understand the hate Defoe is suddenly getting from some spurs fans. He was absolutely brilliant this season up until his injury - it's pretty clear he hasn't got back to his best yet.

I suspect the injury set him back more than they had initially anticipated.

I can see him getting gradually sharper and sharper again over the remaining league games, leading on to the start of next season where he'll probably hit the ground running.
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Old 20-03-2013, 15:40
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Right now, they're both rubbish and frustrating.
Agreed.
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Old 20-03-2013, 15:46
soulboy77
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Defoe is getting shots in but is just not finding the back of the net whereas he was a bit more clinical earlier this season.

Ade seems more adept at muffing up chances on goal at the moment and being a lightweight when challenged by a defender.
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Old 20-03-2013, 15:53
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I wonder when Defoe will get to do the baby celebration? When the baby starts school?
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Old 20-03-2013, 16:27
shelleyj89
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I wonder when Defoe will get to do the baby celebration? When the baby starts school?
With a bit of luck he'll get a goal or two for England and come back to us with his shooting boots firmly back on.
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Old 20-03-2013, 16:27
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Well, Defoe is 30 I think in October. If Levy thinks the way I think he thinks, he'll be assessing when Defoe's value will start to fall off the cliff. I'd imagine this summer Tottenham would easily get the £7 mill paid, and he won't be on astronomical wages either so the 2 1/2 years left on his contract wouldn't deter a mid-table Prem side, maybe the Porn Kings down the road. Or even 'arry.

I think he's gone in the window - with the proceeds helping to fund the new arrival.
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Old 20-03-2013, 16:54
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Well, Defoe is 30 I think in October.....
He will be 31.
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:40
Steve AWOL
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Could do with Tom scoring one of these for us in the league! Hopefully he is given the chance ahead of Livermore or Parker next game...

Brilliant Tom Carroll Goal - England U21s - YouTube

The Welsh camp expect Bale to be fit for their WC qualifier with Scotland on Friday, which is good news for us as long as he comes through the game unscathed.
Fingers crossed that Charlie Adam lets Bale breeze past him like last time them met...

Gareth Bale can't run without legs! Scotland told to boot Wales winger | Mail Online
Former Rangers hard man John Brown has stoked the fire ahead of Scotland's clash with Wales by urging Gordon Strachan's players to kick Gareth Bale.
Bale ripped Scotland apart in Cardiff last October and looks set to shake off an ankle injury in time for Friday's return at Hampden.
The Tottenham winger scored twice as the Welshmen won 2-1 and Brown, the Dundee manager, believes roughing him up is the only way to stop him.
...Brown added: 'One player in the Wales team won the game that night; cancel him out and the Welsh team are average.
'I watched the game down there and the difference was Gareth Bale, when you give him time and space to run with the ball and strike it with his strong foot from 30 yards.
'Scott Brown was taken off, Charlie Adam came on and he never did a job on him.
'Your midfield, you get them tight, make sure your defence is compact and you make sure you're losing all the space for him.
'Gordon Strachan will know what he's doing. If he can nullify Bale I think the Welsh team are average.'
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Old 20-03-2013, 18:20
Deep Purple
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Could do with Tom scoring one of these for us in the league! Hopefully he is given the chance ahead of Livermore or Parker next game...

Brilliant Tom Carroll Goal - England U21s - YouTube



Fingers crossed that Charlie Adam lets Bale breeze past him like last time them met...

Gareth Bale can't run without legs! Scotland told to boot Wales winger | Mail Online
Charlie Adam has a history of kicking Gareth Bale. I hope there is no repeat.
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Old 20-03-2013, 19:29
Pee
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all week I've been wanting AVB to channel the spirit of Fergie and get Bale to pull out of these games. he clearly didn't look right on Sunday after injuring himself, and shouldn't be playing this week IMO.
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Old 20-03-2013, 20:38
soulboy77
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all week I've been wanting AVB to channel the spirit of Fergie and get Bale to pull out of these games. he clearly didn't look right on Sunday after injuring himself, and shouldn't be playing this week IMO.
Yes, I was surprised when they said that he will be ok to play. Guess they are banking that 5 days rest will be enough for his ankle to recover fully. Just hope that Bale really is fit for the game and that he doesn't play out of Welsh patriotism when he shouldn't.
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:44
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He'll play I'd imagine. He'll probably feel bad if he doesn't as he is by far and away their best player.
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