[HoveringKestrel]

....they either don't care, or are out partying on a Saturday Night!?

You get Tulisa saying "certain types of music are relevant" in today's industry... but, I'm sorry, how rich is Celine Dion?

At least American Idol managed to get Mariah Carey, don't like her personally but she has sold a lot of records.

Why not get judges who aren't into gimmicks (Louis) or something youthful (Tulisa)

Those two, I want to hear from the least. At least Nicole and Gary have had hits of their own and talent, they need judges like (I know it sounds daft but) Katherine Jenkins or Hayley Westenra, people with talent who sell millions to 'middle of the road' listeners who tune in as theres nothing else on the TV.

Then a Producer, like Dr Luke or Calvin Harris who knows how to adapt voices into smash hits!

[Soppyfan]

Not only that, we have producers who I am certain are all female judging by what they put in the description boxes on their official YT Channel.

[C14E]

If Celine Dion won X Factor now, would she sell any records? She sold a lot of records because when she was at her peak, she was making the right stuff for the market at the time. That's what they're looking for - not someone who was like Celine Dion when she was huge last century.

The likes of Dr Luke and Calvin Harris wouldn't have any time for a Celine Dion type in their professional work at the moment, so it would be no different if they were judging on a talent show.

That's not to say that a ballad singer can't be relevant. They loved Ella, for example. And James' single has been a massive hit and seems to have gone beyond the usual "Christmas X Factor" hit status. Rebecca Ferguson has done really well for herself.

Also, X Factor was the only show on UK TV to draw more than 3 million viewers aged 16-34 in 2012. So the audience is certainly there. It's also the audience that advertisers pay for because so few other shows are able to deliver significant numbers.

[HoveringKestrel]

You don't think David Guetta or Calvin Harris would have time for Celine Dion?

Have you heard Delerium ft Sarah Mclachlan? She was hardly a 'happening' artist and made one of the best dance songs ever! If they could get Celine Dion, they would lap it up without a doubt!

Even Titanium and She-Wolf had Sia, and she's more of a jazz-type singer. They would faint if Celine or the like were up for it.

[C14E]

Originally Posted by HoveringKestrel

You don't think David Guetta or Calvin Harris would have time for Celine Dion?

Have you heard Delerium ft Sarah Mclachlan? She was hardly a 'happening' artist and made one of the best dance songs ever! If they could get Celine Dion, they would lap it up without a doubt!

Even Titanium and She-Wolf had Sia, and she's more of a jazz-type singer. They would faint if Celine or the like were up for it.

Guetta, Harris and Dr Luke can have whoever they want on their songs. And they want the best selling popstars so they'd always go Rihanna instead of Celine.

There's also very little chance that Celine would do that kind of song. And if she did, then she'd just be doing as Tulisa demands of X Factor acts and performing one of the "certain types of music that are relevant" in order to achieve chart success.

[HoveringKestrel]

Originally Posted by C14E

Guetta, Harris and Dr Luke can have whoever they want on their songs. And they want the best selling popstars so they'd always go Rihanna instead of Celine.

There's also very little chance that Celine would do that kind of song. And if she did, then she'd just be doing as Tulisa demands of X Factor acts and performing one of the "certain types of music that are relevant" in order to achieve chart success.

Ok, fair enough, I do think you're wrong, but I accept your opinion. Sarah Mclaclan's Silence was a sstand alone successful song before Delerium got hold of it. All I'm saying is Celine or whoever could have a massive middle of the road song based on her talent, and an even bigger dance / underground dance hit with the right producer.

The problem is, Tulisa wants people to be 'urban' to begin with. Thats not going to give people longevity, you need someone with actual staying power. I will say however, I did like Little Mix....I just preferred Amelia Lily

[Soppyfan]

Originally Posted by HoveringKestrel

Have you heard Delerium ft Sarah Mclachlan? She was hardly a 'happening' artist and made one of the best dance songs ever!

I LOVED that song when it first came out.

[HoveringKestrel]

Originally Posted by Soppyfan

I LOVED that song when it first came out.

HAHA its a total classic isn't it!

[iseloid]

My first thought...they're fickle. Simples

Very easy to persuade with anything. Gossip, a new weave or a synth in a song. Also they fileshare A LOT.

[CinnamonBrick]

I don't think the OP understands the market. I agree that the 18 - 24's are the people they're aiming for, which is bad because people won't vote for them because they're out partying. But me and all my friends are in that age bracket and watch the show occasionally. The problem lies with the fact that to sell music, you need to aim for that market. To get votes on a Saturday night? You need to aim for a different market.

But it's obviously working, as Christopher was the Celine Dion "market", yet finished 3rd and James, who suits the 18 to 24's, won. I think Tulisa is relevant, she is aware of the current market and so is Nicole. Right now, we have a very diverse judging panel and I like that. If it catered to the older generation, I'd switch off. I'm not interested in what Hayley Westenra has to say about music.

Dr Luke or Calvin Harris isn't going to spend time on a "Celine Dion" and it doesn't translate well when they do (Case and point, Leona Lewis' - Collide). Silence was a stand alone song before it was remixed by Delerium. The song is a massive song and did exceptionally well... but where are the rest? Ballad and power house singers don't make amazing pop songs, they make good midtempo songs.

Each artist has to find their "identity" and work with that. Again, Leona is an example of someone who has strayed from her identity and the public have lost interest. Shame, because Glassheart is a great song.

[fireemblemcraze]

Originally Posted by CinnamonBrick

I don't think the OP understands the market. I agree that the 18 - 24's are the people they're aiming for, which is bad because people won't vote for them because they're out partying. But me and all my friends are in that age bracket and watch the show occasionally. The problem lies with the fact that to sell music, you need to aim for that market. To get votes on a Saturday night? You need to aim for a different market.

But it's obviously working, as Christopher was the Celine Dion "market", yet finished 3rd and James, who suits the 18 to 24's, won. I think Tulisa is relevant, she is aware of the current market and so is Nicole. Right now, we have a very diverse judging panel and I like that. If it catered to the older generation, I'd switch off. I'm not interested in what Hayley Westenra has to say about music.

Dr Luke or Calvin Harris isn't going to spend time on a "Celine Dion" and it doesn't translate well when they do (Case and point, Leona Lewis' - Collide). Silence was a stand alone song before it was remixed by Delerium. The song is a massive song and did exceptionally well... but where are the rest? Ballad and power house singers don't make amazing pop songs, they make good midtempo songs.

Each artist has to find their "identity" and work with that. Again, Leona is an example of someone who has strayed from her identity and the public have lost interest. Shame, because Glassheart is a great song.

The only problem with Leona is that she's managing herself, otherwise she would be doing better. She should let people who know the business inside out release what singles they think would make the best impact. Nobody has released Glassheart yet which just basically confirms the fact for me that Leona is a poor manager for herself.

Tulisa and Louis should go. Louis's great but no one actually likes him anymore. Tulisa is also alright but she's damaging the show's credibility right now. Her album flopped and it's the new thing to joke about Tulisa and her urban roots. I feel sorry for her yes but she's not helping the show, she needs to go if Simon is going to get people interested in the show again. Louis is a just a joke now. He says the same things every week. I think no one's saying he should leave because we've all resigned to the fact that he's terrible but he's going to be there nonetheless.

Gary should stay for credibility, and Nicole should stay there for her personality. Bring Kelly and Sharon back I say. That would make good Sat TV.

[Tiggi]

I think Kelly and Sharon would fight like two cats trapped in a sack.

[gpk]

Originally Posted by CinnamonBrick

as Christopher was the Celine Dion "market"

the former cruise ship crooner is not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence as celine, yet alone considered in the same market. while she maybe way past her commercial draw in terms of selling records and while a collaboration between her and guetta seems highly unlikely. she is making multi millions yearly in her sell out vegas shows and she is frankly leagues ahead of an at best karaoke singer or whatever producer is making waves on the fickle music charts at the moment.

this is why the balance seems so much better on other panels, there is usually someone there that has seen all these trends come and go. the voice of experience entices older viewers and credibility means a lot to these viewers. the younger viewers maybe care less about credibility or prefer what is deemed credible in the here and now. the current panel largely disappoints in both scenarios, with nicole and gary emerging as the best examples on a poor panel.

balance is the key to draw in both potential audiences.

[iseloid]

Originally Posted by fireemblemcraze

The only problem with Leona is that she's managing herself, otherwise she would be doing better. She should let people who know the business inside out release what singles they think would make the best impact. Nobody has released Glassheart yet which just basically confirms the fact for me that Leona is a poor manager for herself.

Tulisa and Louis should go. Louis's great but no one actually likes him anymore. Tulisa is also alright but she's damaging the show's credibility right now. Her album flopped and it's the new thing to joke about Tulisa and her urban roots. I feel sorry for her yes but she's not helping the show, she needs to go if Simon is going to get people interested in the show again. Louis is a just a joke now. He says the same things every week. I think no one's saying he should leave because we've all resigned to the fact that he's terrible but he's going to be there nonetheless.

Gary should stay for credibility, and Nicole should stay there for her personality. Bring Kelly and Sharon back I say. That would make good Sat TV.

Leona doesn't release her own singles and she sure as hell is NOT her own boss.

[Andybear]

Originally Posted by gpk

the former cruise ship crooner is not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence as celine, yet alone considered in the same market. while she maybe way past her commercial draw in terms of selling records and while a collaboration between her and guetta seems highly unlikely. she is making multi millions yearly in her sell out vegas shows and she is frankly leagues ahead of an at best karaoke singer or whatever producer is making waves on the fickle music charts at the moment.

this is why the balance seems so much better on other panels, there is usually someone there that has seen all these trends come and go. the voice of experience entices older viewers and credibility means a lot to these viewers. the younger viewers maybe care less about credibility or prefer what is deemed credible in the here and now. the current panel largely disappoints in both scenarios, with nicole and gary emerging as the best examples on a poor panel.

balance is the key to draw in both potential audiences.

Bib - being in my late 40s I'm classed as an 'older viewer' and I couldn't care less about credibility. If I like a song/singer I like it, if I don't like it, I don''t. Credibility doesn't come into it - in fact I don't even know what it means in this context!

[gpk]

Originally Posted by Andybear

Bib - being in my late 40s I'm classed as an 'older viewer' and I couldn't care less about credibility. If I like a song/singer I like it, if I don't like it, I don''t. Credibility doesn't come into it - in fact I don't even know what it means in this context!

i also mentioned balance twice, because clearly people have different ideas on what is credible. people talk about who is relevant and have done in this thread when discussing the judging panel. however, relevance is fickle like the pop charts and someone with vast experience of having longevity despite passing trends would have more credibility than some flash in the pan pop star currently struggling for a hit.

i may have made a sweeping generalisation and of course credibility is not important to all older viewers, but it would be important to some. its all about balance really, a panel full of credible industry people would be boring for any age group, but personally i think panels on other shows have more balance.