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Why Does Line Rental Feel Like A Con?


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Old 31-01-2013, 17:02
Kolin Klingon
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Well there you go; YOU "don't see what the problem is"

Others see it plainly for what it is: To get broadband you have to pay more than what they state for broadband and so you can't get it for the cost they are stating - Therefore a con!
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Old 31-01-2013, 18:18
moox
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This isn't some sort of big con - just about every ISP that offers a phone service along with their broadband makes it quite clear that what their line rental costs. If you genuinely feel that is a "con" then I suggest you go and watch Hustle.

If you try to order broadband, you'll be asked to enter your phone number. If you don't have a phone line that should make it fairly clear that you'll need to order one along with the broadband or make another arrangement first. If you proceed with an order at some point it is certain that they will make it clear what the line rental costs before you finalise the order.

There is nothing deceptive - it's not like you order broadband and start using the service and then realise you need a phone line or need to pay line rental, it is fairly obvious that you need one and what the cost will be before you order.

With the exception of Virgin, broadband tends to be a service that is an addition to a phone line. In the UK it is not the case that broadband is the main service and the phone line is the addition.

Example - http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/ - quite clearly states that their line rental is 13.99 a month, and if you click "legal" it will tell you need a BT based phone line.
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Old 31-01-2013, 19:40
bottleofbest
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No, it's across the board now as part of the terms and conditions of your line rental.
Can you post these terms and conditions for me please?
Because as far as I am aware BT charge you 2 a month when you don't meet the minimum call commitment for their free services such as 1571 and caller display, which as long as you make two outgoing calls on your plan, there's no rental for these. Plus also you need to make outgoing calls on your line rental saver, or there is a 6 charge for not meeting the minimum call commitment. And these are explained at point of sale.

There's no charge for not using your line if you don't have a free service on it.
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Old 31-01-2013, 20:07
noise747
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Why on earth would anyone want to do this? It's more hassle and it pushes up the supplier costs as two billing systems have to be run.
Why is it more hassle?
A mate of mine is doing it he got his fibre from plusnet and his phone service with Bt as he thinks it is a better deal.

I used to to it when i was with ADSL24 for broadband, I used first telecom for phone line as they was cheap.

You may find a better deal by having then separate, or a deal that suits you better, the problem is if you go for Bt, Talk Talk or sky you got no choice in the matter and it is getting worse, Orange you can't have just their broadband any more.
Others that do allow you to have just broadband like Plusnet tries to hide it.

i know someone that have his gas and electric separate as he worked out he gets a better deal, now that is hassle as it is difficult enough to work tariffs normally.

I prefer to keep things separate these days, I went though the stage of having lots of stuff in one basket, Mobile phone, broadband and home phone, I don't want to do it again.

Still happy with not having a phone line, in fact I was hoping the wind we been having over the last few days would have detached the cable from the house.
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Old 31-01-2013, 21:32
tghe-retford
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Can you post these terms and conditions for me please?
Because as far as I am aware BT charge you 2 a month when you don't meet the minimum call commitment for their free services such as 1571 and caller display, which as long as you make two outgoing calls on your plan, there's no rental for these. Plus also you need to make outgoing calls on your line rental saver, or there is a 6 charge for not meeting the minimum call commitment. And these are explained at point of sale.

There's no charge for not using your line if you don't have a free service on it.
http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...?topicId=29984

A minimum call commitment of 2 calls per month is associated with this product. Calls can be chargeable or those included with your chosen call plan. A charge of 2 applies in each month that you do not make the required number of calls.
The same policy was also made applicable to me on the monthly not line saver option, as confirmed on every call option on this page:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...?topicId=33572

You need to make at least two calls a month to avoid a 2 monthly charge.
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Old 31-01-2013, 21:41
bottleofbest
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http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...?topicId=29984


The same policy was also made applicable to me on the monthly not line saver option, as confirmed on every call option on this page:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...?topicId=33572
Can't see it on that page; I have also checked the legal stuff. I can't see it. Sorry if I am being thick.
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Old 31-01-2013, 22:14
Dazinho
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Can't see it on that page; I have also checked the legal stuff. I can't see it. Sorry if I am being thick.
No need to check the legal stuff - it states that you need to make at least 2 BT calls per month to avoid a 2 charge.

I agree with the OP - if you have to pay line rental, it should be included in the price. Something should not be advertised at say 7.49 pm if you have no choice but to pay 15.99 line rental on top.
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Old 31-01-2013, 22:55
ney
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I agree line rental can be dear for at times line rental cames to more than the cost of calls we have made in the 3 months. I do think as someone said they could add line rental as part of a broadband and calls package.
Like im halfway though a 12 month contract on a BT Infinity 2 package that includes evening and weekend calls but I got line rental to pay on top of that.
I did manage to get 1.50 a month of the price of the package when I renewed last year.

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Old 31-01-2013, 23:01
Simon Rodgers
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Not sure what it is, but whenever they do deals for Broadband or phone packages, they never include line rental on the price, and is nearly always in small print.

Why do we pay line rental in the first place?

Surely it should be part of the price of either having a phone or BB?
I said something like this before but got shouted down here because I asked why can't you buy the line and therefore not rent it.

The response was that you would then need to pay for the repairs etc which could be costly and what are you going to do when you move? Wrap it up and take it with you?

Well in that case why buy a house? Are you going to take that with you when you move? Sell the line with the house, simple.

I do feel line rental is a bit of a con because it is basically money for nothing. You have to pay for everything you do with your line and that is where the revenue is generated. Why add "line rental" on top? Because they can.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:23
SteveMcK
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I said something like this before but got shouted down here because I asked why can't you buy the line and therefore not rent it.

The response was that you would then need to pay for the repairs etc which could be costly and what are you going to do when you move? Wrap it up and take it with you?
Your "line" is actually one pair of wires in a cable with many more, hundeds in some cables. How can you buy just your bit? What happens if just your bit gets damaged, will you pay for the whole cable to be replaced, or be happy to buy another pair in the cable to keep the connection?

It's a shared service, much easier to rent access than to try and sell it piecemeal.
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Old 01-02-2013, 23:39
tghe-retford
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Can't see it on that page; I have also checked the legal stuff. I can't see it. Sorry if I am being thick.
Did you click the Line Rental from 10.75 link? It's right in there. Whether you pay monthly or yearly, all line rental is now subject to the 2 "low user tax" as I am terming it.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:01
bottleofbest
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Did you click the Line Rental from 10.75 link? It's right in there. Whether you pay monthly or yearly, all line rental is now subject to the 2 "low user tax" as I am terming it.
That link is specifically talking about line rental saver option though because the link on there is for the 10.75 difference, I know the website could do with being more clear.
The 10.75 is line rental saver; regardless of what call package you are on; if you take line rental saver there is a 2 charge - it has nothing to do with the call plans.
If a customer takes the normal line rental of 15.45, then there is no minimum call commitment and no 2 charge.
I work in BT billing and there is no 2 charge if you take normal line rental.

There is a charge for minimum call commitments on lrs, free caller display and 1571.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:36
noise747
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Your "line" is actually one pair of wires in a cable with many more, hundeds in some cables. How can you buy just your bit? What happens if just your bit gets damaged, will you pay for the whole cable to be replaced, or be happy to buy another pair in the cable to keep the connection?

It's a shared service, much easier to rent access than to try and sell it piecemeal.
It is the price of the rental that is a problem. 15 a month for nothing is a lot of money and yes I know you normally get evening and weekend calls as well, but this is what they keep doing. Oh we stuck another 1 a month on your line rental, but you get this free. but it is not free. So what is Bt giving away with the hike of prices this time?

i think if people are just using their lines from broadband then a charge of say 5 a month should be fine. i should think that will more than pay for what they have done to my line in the last 15 years.
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Old 02-02-2013, 13:43
SteveMcK
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i think if people are just using their lines from broadband then a charge of say 5 a month should be fine.
Talk to OfCom, it sets the rates.
i should think that will more than pay for what they have done to my line in the last 15 years.
No offence, but you probably have no idea of what's been done. The monitoring of underground plant is quite sophisticated, designed to highlight faults so that they get fixed before they deteriorate enough to affect the end user. Substantial parts of your line could have been completely replaced and you'd know nothing about it. That's why it isn't cheap, BT have very strict service quality criteria which they have to stick to.
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:00
d'@ve
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That link is specifically talking about line rental saver option though because the link on there is for the 10.75 difference, I know the website could do with being more clear.
The 10.75 is line rental saver; regardless of what call package you are on; if you take line rental saver there is a 2 charge - it has nothing to do with the call plans.
If a customer takes the normal line rental of 15.45, then there is no minimum call commitment and no 2 charge.
I work in BT billing and there is no 2 charge if you take normal line rental.

There is a charge for minimum call commitments on lrs, free caller display and 1571.
There is no additional (e.g. 2) charge for taking BT line rental saver if you comply with the minimum call requirements as follows:
A condition of Line Rental Saver is that you make at least 6
chargeable or inclusive calls per quarter with BT
(2 per month if billed monthly) or you will incur a charge.
That is copied from my 'line rental saver' bill last year and on my invitation to renew this month, there is no mention of any change to that (though the price has gone up as mentioned to the equivalent of 10.75 a month). I'm sure BT won't have misrepresented the true cost of line rental saver to me on my renewal invitation - as it would be a very serious regulatory matter if they did.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:59
bottleofbest
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There is no additional (e.g. 2) charge for taking BT line rental saver if you comply with the minimum call requirements as follows:
I know this already, I was explaining this to others. the 2 charges is levied on lrs, free caller display and 1571 if the customer does not make two outgoing calls a month.
It said at the bottom bit that you didn't highlight

However this does not apply if the customer just has line rental and a normal calling plan without any freebies.


That is copied from my 'line rental saver' bill last year and on my invitation to renew this month, there is no mention of any change to that (though the price has gone up as mentioned to the equivalent of 10.75 a month). I'm sure BT won't have misrepresented the true cost of line rental saver to me on my renewal invitation - as it would be a very serious regulatory matter if they did.
I've only worked for them since August, I have only ever seen it as 10.75, what was it before?
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Old 02-02-2013, 16:05
koantemplation
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BT Totally Unlimited BB 16 a month (free first 6 months)

BUT

15.45 line rental, SO that is really 31.45 a month.
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Old 02-02-2013, 16:22
bottleofbest
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BT Totally Unlimited BB 16 a month (free first 6 months)

BUT

15.45 line rental, SO that is really 31.45 a month.
Correct, but for that price you get bt cloud, bt smarttalk, 4.5 million hotspots in the uk and a further 3 million abroad; the world's biggest. N technology wireless router and net protect which is normally 3.49 by itself. #

I think the price speaks for itself. I think it's very competitive compared to some of the other deals out there.

I wonder if we're still offering the free youview box with these packages?

I am still getting my head round these new packages.
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Old 02-02-2013, 17:24
d'@ve
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I've only worked for them since August, I have only ever seen it as 10.75, what was it before?
10.00 a month/equivalent. Bargain (albeit locked me in for year).

I got in just before they whacked the price up and hope to do so again this year, in a week or two's time... I've already ordered it at that price.
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Old 02-02-2013, 17:47
bottleofbest
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10.00 a month/equivalent. Bargain (albeit locked me in for year).

I got in just before they whacked the price up and hope to do so again this year, in a week or two's time... I've already ordered it at that price.
Yeah I know it's still 10.75 at the moment, but the price only went up Jan 5th so surely the line rental saver will go up slightly like everything else has. Fair play to you, you savvy chappy!
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:57
moox
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BT Totally Unlimited BB 16 a month (free first 6 months)

BUT

15.45 line rental, SO that is really 31.45 a month.
No, it is 16/month - that is the fee for the broadband service.

15.45 is for the phone line that you happen to need to get BT broadband.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:04
koantemplation
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No, it is 16/month - that is the fee for the broadband service.

15.45 is for the phone line that you happen to need to get BT broadband.
Nope it's really 31.45 as you can not, NOT pay for line rental.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:11
moox
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Nope it's really 31.45 as you can not, NOT pay for line rental.
For the two services combined, yes, but for the broadband itself you are only paying 16. If you did not have broadband you would pay 15.45, not 0.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:42
bottleofbest
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For the two services combined, yes, but for the broadband itself you are only paying 16. If you did not have broadband you would pay 15.45, not 0.
The point he is making though is that you HAVE to have both if you want bb, hence the 31.45 price tag.
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:26
moox
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The point he is making though is that you HAVE to have both if you want bb, hence the 31.45 price tag.
I understand that, but my point is that the broadband itself is not 31.45 - that is for two services, phone and broadband.
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