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Why Does Line Rental Feel Like A Con?


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Old 02-02-2013, 21:31
koantemplation
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I understand that, but my point is that the broadband itself is not 31.45 - that is for two services, phone and broadband.
No it's not.

If you have Broadband via a phone line but have no phone, then you still pay 31.45.
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:34
moox
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No it's not.

If you have Broadband via a phone line but have no phone, then you still pay 31.45.
Whether you have a phone connected to the phone line or not, you are still paying for a phone service. That makes it still phone AND broadband for 31.45, not broadband only.
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:38
g-bhxu
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It is the price of the rental that is a problem. 15 a month for nothing is a lot of money and yes I know you normally get evening and weekend calls as well, but this is what they keep doing. Oh we stuck another 1 a month on your line rental, but you get this free. but it is not free. So what is Bt giving away with the hike of prices this time?

i think if people are just using their lines from broadband then a charge of say 5 a month should be fine. i should think that will more than pay for what they have done to my line in the last 15 years.
Why can't BT pair a broadband only user and a phone calls user only on one line?

It should then be half price line rental
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:44
moox
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Why can't BT pair a broadband only user and a phone calls user only on one line?

It should then be half price line rental
How would you do that unless they lived in the same building? Aside from the technical issues, you'd still have to have two drop wires to the two houses.

It would be quite a mess to manage (and I'm sure BT's IT systems wouldn't cope with that) too.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:46
Kolin Klingon
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Of course they won't reduce the price for Broadband only users as they have to pay full whack and have no other option.

They don't give a flying f***! You can't get broadband without a line and then they make a big thing out of just stating loudly the price of the broadband only. You have no choice and they are willing and will take your money.

So much for Thatchers ideas about competition driving down prices. It's a closed shop and people blackmailed into having to pay line retail whilst hearing loads of adverts only stating broadband cost and a little sign on the screen about Line Rental as they have been legally forced to.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:49
Kolin Klingon
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How would you do that unless they lived in the same building? Aside from the technical issues, you'd still have to have two drop wires to the two houses.

It would be quite a mess to manage (and I'm sure BT's IT systems wouldn't cope with that) too.
A filter at the cabinet just like the one people have inside their house to split their own phone line.

One line only allows Broadband and the other line only allows Phone calls.

It is that simple!

But they won't do it as why have two people paying half the price when you can have two mugs each playing full price and they have no other option.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:56
moox
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Of course they won't reduce the price for Broadband only users as they have to pay full whack and have no other option.
No other option? Like Virgin (where available) or 3G/4G wireless service?

Or do you mean no other option other than to use a telephone line and pay telephone line rental to have a medium to also run broadband over?

They don't give a flying f***! You can't get broadband without a line and then they make a big thing out of just stating loudly the price of the broadband only. You have no choice and they are willing and will take your money.
Because the line rental does not pay for the broadband service - the (advertised) broadband price does. I have a Sky subscription that includes Sky Sports. When I say how much Sky Sports costs, should I say how much the total subscription is or how much I am actually paying for Sky Sports (which is a separate fee)? It's a similar enough situation.

So much for Thatchers ideas about competition driving down prices. It's a closed shop and people blackmailed into having to pay line retail whilst hearing loads of adverts only stating broadband cost and a little sign on the screen about Line Rental as they have been legally forced to.
You have to wonder why "dry loops" are not exactly catching on even in "more enlightened" countries... As far as I know, even if an ISP uses local loop unbundling and rents the entire line from BT there is no reason why they couldn't pass the savings on to you, but they don't. I wonder why?

It isn't blackmail - there are non-phone line alternatives, but they have their own limitations that you may not like.
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:01
moox
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A filter at the cabinet just like the one people have inside their house to split their own phone line.

One line only allows Broadband and the other line only allows Phone calls.

It is that simple!

But they won't do it as why have two people paying half the price when you can have two mugs each playing full price and they have no other option.
That sounds like a unholy mess to manage - especially if a fault occurs on either side of the service. What do you do if either customer wants the other service - more engineer labour to get dedicated lines? I doubt that BT and every ISP's IT systems can't cope with that either.

How many people genuinely only have a phone line these days, considering how prolific the internet is and how people whine about "having to have a phone line for broadband" it's unlikely that there would be many phone-only customers to make that plan work, when you consider the amount of effort involved.

You already complain about the cost of line rental. One-off or niche solutions such as this will do a lot to push that cost up, not reduce it. Who is going to pay to patch the IT systems that handle provisioning and billing? Who is going to pay to design the filters and procedures? Who is going to pay to test the whole system?
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:17
noise747
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Talk to OfCom, it sets the rates.
And we know how independent they are. all a show, i wonder how many people in OFCOM got BT shares?


No offence, but you probably have no idea of what's been done. The monitoring of underground plant is quite sophisticated, designed to highlight faults so that they get fixed before they deteriorate enough to affect the end user. Substantial parts of your line could have been completely replaced and you'd know nothing about it. That's why it isn't cheap, BT have very strict service quality criteria which they have to stick to.
My line was getting worse, I was suppose to have had it renewed years ago and yet nothing happened. Voice calls quality was awful, with people not being able to hear me or me them most of the times because of noise. I think that noise also affected the broadband, I am pretty sure I could have got a better speed with decent lines.

i could imagine trying to put FTTC over these lines, I would no doubt get 10Mb/s.


They are certainly not going to do much about one of the trunk routes that run up a road by a mate of mine. According to a BTOR engineer when he was trying to sort out my mates phone and broadband, he said that it will cost too much, so they are waiting until my lines die and only when they run out of pairs something will be done.

Twice now my mate had to have his phone put onto another pair from the exchange as the cables are just falling apart

Considering that my mate lives pretty close to the exchange, I thought BTOR would have replaced the old copper wires with fibre. but they won't.

Next generation broadband we are told, yep, for us, just a shame it is out of date.
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Old 03-02-2013, 15:38
neo_wales
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And we know how independent they are. all a show, i wonder how many people in OFCOM got BT shares?



My line was getting worse, I was suppose to have had it renewed years ago and yet nothing happened. Voice calls quality was awful, with people not being able to hear me or me them most of the times because of noise. I think that noise also affected the broadband, I am pretty sure I could have got a better speed with decent lines.

i could imagine trying to put FTTC over these lines, I would no doubt get 10Mb/s.


They are certainly not going to do much about one of the trunk routes that run up a road by a mate of mine. According to a BTOR engineer when he was trying to sort out my mates phone and broadband, he said that it will cost too much, so they are waiting until my lines die and only when they run out of pairs something will be done.

Twice now my mate had to have his phone put onto another pair from the exchange as the cables are just falling apart

Considering that my mate lives pretty close to the exchange, I thought BTOR would have replaced the old copper wires with fibre. but they won't.

Next generation broadband we are told, yep, for us, just a shame it is out of date.
I think if its under 15mb/s they won't install it. Your mates are having a lot of trouble again lol
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Old 03-02-2013, 21:22
g-bhxu
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That sounds like a unholy mess to manage - especially if a fault occurs on either side of the service. What do you do if either customer wants the other service - more engineer labour to get dedicated lines? I doubt that BT and every ISP's IT systems can't cope with that either.

How many people genuinely only have a phone line these days, considering how prolific the internet is and how people whine about "having to have a phone line for broadband" it's unlikely that there would be many phone-only customers to make that plan work, when you consider the amount of effort involved.


You already complain about the cost of line rental. One-off or niche solutions such as this will do a lot to push that cost up, not reduce it. Who is going to pay to patch the IT systems that handle provisioning and billing? Who is going to pay to design the filters and procedures? Who is going to pay to test the whole system?

It's no different to the old party line principle when you used to have to press a button on your phone to get the line.
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Old 04-02-2013, 18:48
bottleofbest
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I think if its under 15mb/s they won't install it. Your mates are having a lot of trouble again lol
They won't install if it's under 1.5 do you mean?
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Old 04-02-2013, 19:21
moox
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It's no different to the old party line principle when you used to have to press a button on your phone to get the line.
It doesn't answer my questions - no one's IT and provisioning systems would be set up to cope with the concept, there is likely to be not many phone-only lines to put the broadband on, no one wants to say who will pay to develop new filters and processes to make it happen.

Shared service lines existed to fill a necessity - lack of equipment and a lot of demand for a telephone, and for very good reason the idea of a shared line died out as the equipment and plant became available to give everyone their own dedicated line.

There is no such necessity here, apart from at best a fractional saving on maintenance costs assuming nothing goes wrong (but way offset by the costs to bring the product to market) and what would likely be a very niche product.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:29
KJ44
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The sense of entitlement from some on here is incredible.

Infrastructure costs money. The performance of sending data down copper wires depends upon distance from the exchange.
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