Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Black Mirror Series 2


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19-02-2013, 01:38
Youtoo?
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 809
That was a very thought-provoking episode. Being a practical gal, I am wondering how they will keep her alive for long if she is living in that much terror and physical stress day after day. I can't imagine her system will cope for too long; I'm thinking of the stress on her heart, the lack of time or desire to eat, the lack of recuperation and rest and so on. Perhaps she'll be rotated with other prisoners, or perhaps it's only designed to last for a while and she'll go on to a more conventional punishment later - or even that this could be the warm-up to a death sentence.

The scene where she begged them to kill her and he replied "you always say that" really got to me. Perhaps one day they'll let it end - it comes to something when death is the kinder option. Or perhaps her sentence is to be literally scared to death? A chilling prospect.
Youtoo? is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 19-02-2013, 01:40
Digital Sid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,043
Yes I agree with the poster 'far2cool' above that I'd go for the one that's just aired so that you can join in the discussion in near realtime.
I'm an insomniac so I'll have time to watch all of them before the next one anyway, will watch these two tomorrow and the first series the next. Was Utopia any good?
Digital Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:40
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
The most disturbing and distressing scene which I found quite difficult to watch was near the end where you just saw people in her house pottering about and you could just hear her screaming from in her room, which you don't see.

Great scene.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:42
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
I'm an insomniac so I'll have time to watch all of them before the next one anyway, will watch these two tomorrow and the first series the next. Was Utopia any good?
Yes, I think it is. Utopia is very 'different'. In a good way.
However I'd warn you that the violence which occasionally occurs in it is bone-crunchingly brutal. One or two scenes are difficult to watch I'd say.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:44
Youtoo?
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 809
The most disturbing and distressing scene which I found quite difficult to watch was near the end where you just saw people in her house pottering about and you could just hear her screaming from in her room, which you don't see.

Great scene.
That was disturbing, definitely. The idea that it was her own home too, a place that would have been familiar, safe, and ordinary in any other circumstance.
Youtoo? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:45
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,924
Good point. I'd wager that there will be a lot of people out there who don't particularly want prisoners to reform, because that would then make their hatred towards them unjustified.
They'd feel cheated that it isn't real justice and the only justice that they'd want is the satisfaction that they're punished for the rest of their life.
Rehabilitation to that section of people would be no good.

Problem is that if an individual gains self serving satisfaction from their constant suffering, how would it make them any better as people than the 'guilty'?
Even worse, if they profit from it and get gainful employment out of it... see G4S guards being employed in prisons. I think that the adulation the Scottish "leader" got for doing the same thing for profit that the camp "victim" did for her boyfriend out of some misguided sense of love or emotional attachment raised that question: what's the price paid for exploiting the weak because you can and what is the gain? Cui Bono, who benefits?

The most disturbing and distressing scene which I found quite difficult to watch was near the end where you just saw people in her house pottering about and you could just hear her screaming from in her room, which you don't see.

Great scene.
To them, it's just a job. That's where I felt it relates to The Game with Michael Douglas, when you realise it's all just a set and part of a larger game for others entertainment where the person is expected to learn something from it, even if the only real lesson to be learned is people will do sick, terrifying things to get a kick out of another person's suffering and distress when they realise what they think is real is not.


That was a very thought-provoking episode. Being a practical gal, I am wondering how they will keep her alive for long if she is living in that much terror and physical stress day after day. I can't imagine her system will cope for too long; I'm thinking of the stress on her heart, the lack of time or desire to eat, the lack of recuperation and rest and so on. Perhaps she'll be rotated with other prisoners, or perhaps it's only designed to last for a while and she'll go on to a more conventional punishment later - or even that this could be the warm-up to a death sentence.

The scene where she begged them to kill her and he replied "you always say that" really got to me. Perhaps one day they'll let it end - it comes to something when death is the kinder option. Or perhaps her sentence is to be literally scared to death? A chilling prospect.
That was the point, I think... she was begging for death but they wouldn't give her any real release as long as they could exploit her. It wasn't about her learning a lesson, it was about her turning a profit for them. This relates to the documentary The House I Live In where they explain cops would rather make 30 drug busts that are easy to make rather than investigate one murder than might end up a cold case; it's about profiting from the penal system, not delivering justice.
Declan_Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:47
Sad_BB_Addict
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 86,770
"As a society we have become voyeurs, passively whiling away our lives through the lens of a camera rather than doing it for real. While I am not as enamoured with White Bear as I was with Be Right Back, the film is still superb."
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/...or-white-bear/

"Still, this was an exciting and efficient piece of narrative rug-pulling that mocked, above all, our insatiable, neo-Medieval thirst for humiliation repackaged as entertainment. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...-4-review.html
Sad_BB_Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:49
Digital Sid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,043
Yes, I think it is. Utopia is very 'different'. In a good way.
What's the premise?
However I'd warn you that the violence which occasionally occurs in it is bone-crunchingly brutal. One or two scenes are difficult to watch I'd say.
Noted
Digital Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:52
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
Even worse, if they profit from it and get gainful employment out of it... see G4S guards being employed in prisons. I think that the adulation the Scottish "leader" got for doing the same thing for profit that the camp "victim" did for her boyfriend out of some misguided sense of love or emotional attachment raised that question: what's the price paid for exploiting the weak because you can and what is the gain? Cui Bono, who benefits?
True, which makes me think of another layer within it. That if the corrupting influence of money and power enters the equation, that in itself will have an effect of influencing the public as to what defines what justice is, what is acceptable, and thus validates it to the masses.

The example here is the circus put on for the torture as media entertainment. We witnessed the show host actively encouraging and promoting the hatred within the baying mob very much like the '2 minute hate' scenario in '1984'.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:54
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,924
True, which makes me think of another layer within it. That if the corrupting influence of money and power enters the equation, that in itself will have an effect of influencing the public as to what defines what justice is, what is acceptable, and thus validates it to the masses.

The example here is the circus put on for the torture as media entertainment. We witnessed the show host actively encouraging and promoting the hatred within the baying mob very much like the '2 minute hate' scenario in '1984'.
I would also suggest you seek out The House I Live In or wait for it to be repeated on BBC4, it was a very informative documentary on the price of justice versus the profit from easy arrests of known serial criminals trapped in their circumstances by their upbringing and multiple convictions limiting their actual real options of advancement.

When you have courts actually having to ask for people not to film in courts and other people trying to profit from their antics like the person that tried to put a pie in Rupert Murdock's face, as well as the Leveson Enquiry being filmed every day with highlights for the news... it's clear courts are becoming less about the justice system and more about opportunities for spectacle.
Declan_Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:55
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
What's the premise?

Noted
Just lazily acquired from Wikipedia....
"The story follows a small group of people who find themselves in possession of a manuscript of a cult graphic novel called "The Utopia Experiments", which is rumoured to have predicted the worst disasters of the last century. This leads them to be targeted by a government organisation known only as 'The Network', which they must avoid to survive"
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 01:56
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
I would also suggest you seek out The House I Live In or wait for it to be repeated on BBC4, it was a very informative documentary on the price of justice versus the profit from easy arrests of known serial criminals trapped in their circumstances by their upbringing and multiple convictions limiting their actual real options of advancement.
Thanks for the recommendation.
I'll give that a whirl.

Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 02:03
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 53,114
Another point about them making her unable to remember what she did and force her to watch news reports at the end.
It doesn't really make her remember. It actually denies her from truth.
It just spoon feeds her what the news reports were. It's like she herself is brainwashed what to think based on the particular bias of the news reports. She doesn't truly remember or come to recognize any real truth that may lie somewhere inside her if she got the chance to have more than a day to remember what really happened.

If she truly was guilty of what she was accused, then only access to her own real memories would allow her to come to terms with herself and know what happened and possibly come to feel remorse over her actions. A second hand news report is just that.
Which also begs the question as to the real reason why her true memories have been suppressed.
Any semblance of real truth is hidden within herself.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 02:12
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,924
Another point about them making her unable to remember what she did and force her to watch news reports at the end.
It doesn't really make her remember. It actually denies her from truth.
It just spoon feeds her what the news reports were. It's like she herself is brainwashed what to think based on the particular bias of the news reports. She doesn't truly remember or come to recognize any real truth that may lie somewhere inside her if she got the chance to have more than a day to remember what really happened.

If she truly was guilty of what she was accused, then only access to her own real memories would allow her to come to terms with herself and know what happened and possibly come to feel remorse over her actions. A second hand news report is just that.
Which also begs the question as to the real reason why her true memories have been suppressed.
Any semblance of real truth is hidden within herself.
Well the brief recollections we did see suggested she was fond of the girl and at least at the beginning filmed her playing comfortably... so it is very much a case of her repressed memories suggesting something that goes against the public's view and judgement she received, particularly since her own claim seemed to be disregarded about "being under his spell". Without the other person's testimony all the blame was heaped on her so she suffered in his place as well as for her own crimes because the public decided she was just as guilty as the actual suspected torturer and murderer for simply recording it on her smartphone.

Honestly, looking at the responses of some in the thread about the show that was on ITV before this about Aylesbury Prison shows that this mentality is not far removed from real life at all. Particularly since that show is also all about exploiting prisoners for ratings and profit (via ad revenue sold in the breaks). This show is literally entirely relevant to the show that was on before it on the other channel below it in the program guide.
Declan_Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 03:44
MD1500
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 12,649

"Still, this was an exciting and efficient piece of narrative rug-pulling that mocked, above all, our insatiable, neo-Medieval thirst for humiliation repackaged as entertainment. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...-4-review.html
The one comment on that Telegraph piece, assuming it isn't satire, is more frightening than the actual show:

For once, I was with the baying mob. She deserved perpetual torture for her crimes. Seeing as Hell doesn't exist, this was the best alternative. I doubt Brooker, who is a bleeding heart liberal (although one who exudes a dark satirical genius) wanted it to be so open-and-shut but it is. She got what she deserved.
MD1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 03:54
Gutted Girl
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,193
When I read that comment on the Telegraph piece I did think I hope that this is meant to be satirical, because if it's actually meant then there is someone who just made that dark place that Charlie Brooker took us to tonight a little bit darker.
Gutted Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 07:44
shirlt9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,485
Unfortunately I made the mistake of coming onto this thread before watching this morning..so the twist was revealed but I still watched..I think I have reached an age where I would like to see a milder version of thjs punishment carried out to some..especially those responsible for the abuse and murder of the vulnerable..children,old people,disabled..does that make me as evil as the people who commint these crimes..NO.it wouldnt enter my head to hurt anyone for the hell of it..could I watch a child murderer going through hell day in day out..I can confidently say YES.
shirlt9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:00
BillyCasper
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: York
Posts: 1,165
Do we reckon the mind wipe wasn't 100% effective on purpose regarding her remembering going to the woods and not feeling safe at the transmitter and the flash backs of the little girl?
BillyCasper is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:15
drykid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,476
Could you point out examples of what you would say were trickery?
Err how about the fact that nothing that happened in the first 45 minutes was as it appeared to be at the time?

And if you're going to turn round and tell me that you were supposed to know all along that she was a convicted child murderer being tortured for the nation's entertainment, then why did no-one suggest that in the thread at the time
drykid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:25
drykid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,476
It seems to be more motivated by giving the public what they want
So if the powers that be sat down before any events portrayed in the show, and held a focus group to try and find out what people would like to see happen to convicted child murderers, it would be along these lines?

"well, what we'd like to see is for them to wake up each morning, have a weird picture on their TV, and no memory, then go outside find everyone taking pictures of them on a mobile phone. Then some woman will save them from a man with a gun, although one of the rescuers will end up being disembowelled by a woman with a carving knife. (Because that sends what message, exactly?) Then they get kidnapped, threatened with a Black and Decker, and escape again. Then when they decide to go to a tv aeriel and blow it up, the other rescuer gets their armed sliced off (again, why?) and finally, when they grab a gun and try to fire it only to realise it's just a toy, we reveal everything to them! (because the climax to every child murderer's nightmare should be finding out that the gun they just grabbed only fires confetti, clearly...)"

TV / theme park producer: cool, we'll get to work on it right away.
drykid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:36
theid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,617
When I read that comment on the Telegraph piece I did think I hope that this is meant to be satirical, because if it's actually meant then there is someone who just made that dark place that Charlie Brooker took us to tonight a little bit darker.

... and it's brought to us by Endemol, purveyors of the voyeuristic Big Brother. Good on Charlie Brooker for biting the hand that feeds him.
theid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:37
shirlt9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,485
So if the powers that be sat down before any events portrayed in the show, and held a focus group to try and find out what people would like to see happen to convicted child murderers, it would be along these lines?

"well, what we'd like to see is for them to wake up each morning, have a weird picture on their TV, and no memory, then go outside find everyone taking pictures of them on a mobile phone. Then some woman will save them from a man with a gun, although one of the rescuers will end up being disembowelled by a woman with a carving knife. (Because that sends what message, exactly?) Then they get kidnapped again, threatened with a Black and Decker, and escape again. Then when they decide to go to a tv aeriel and blow it up, the other rescuer gets their armed sliced off (again, why?) and finally, when they grab a gun and try to fire it only to realise it's just a toy, we reveal everything to them! (because the climax to every child murderer's nightmare should be finding out that the gun they just grabbed only fires confetti, clearly...)"

TV / theme park producer: cool, we'll get to work on it right away.
Maybe someone who has abused a child over a long period of time..with the said child living an entire life of fear of that person entering their room for example..not knowing if the abuse is going to happen or not..their life spent on edge wondering when the next bad thing will happen..is it so bad to wish that same feeling onto the abuser..living their life not knowing if they are going to get hurt,killed etc..pretty fair exchange really.
shirlt9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:43
Jackapple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 483
Did it get any better ??

I switched off after she ran into the petrol station...
Jackapple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:48
nate1970
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,502
Stuck it to the end, but I thought it was weak, the worst one so far. Reminded me of the budget sci-fi I read as a teen.
nate1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2013, 08:53
drykid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,476
..is it so bad to wish that same feeling onto the abuser..living their life not knowing if they are going to get hurt,killed etc..pretty fair exchange really.
But I'm not saying the way it happens in the show wouldn't make the offender suffer, or give the public satisfaction. It would. Just that the precise way it happens is illogical and convoluted and happens the way it does mostly because of the constraints of the drama. Namely the decision to give the episode a everything-you-know-is-wrong shock ending; and the necessity of a structure where for 45 minutes you have to sympathise with the main character. When if the viewer actually knew the truth, they'd be more than happy to see them ahve a Black and Decker shoved up their bottom, so it wouldn't work any other way.

Don't get me wrong, I think Brooker is a genius (ironically, given the way this thread has gone), but this episode was more M. Might Shayamalan than typical Brooker, and suffered for it. It was exciting to watch, but the conclusion was pretty unsatisfying. To me.
drykid is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:24.