Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 
 

Black Mirror Series 2


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13-02-2013, 01:45
Bagshot85
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,101
A big fan of the last series. This series hasn't disappointed so far.
Bagshot85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 13-02-2013, 02:02
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,054
A perfectly edible, reheated TV dinner. Truly, Madly, Deeply via Final Cut via Body Snatchers with a soupcon of The Monkey’s Paw thrown in. Brooker’s read/seen ‘em all (Final Cut especially, so much so he must’ve worn a hole in it by now) and regurgitated them for our viewing pleasure. Nothing wrong with that, but an original voice he aint.
He doesn't pretend to be original. He admitted 15 Millions Merits was inspired by Network. He stated The National Anthem was inspired by 1984 and his experience of Twitter. His idea for the last one was an extension of his ideas he expressed in one of his columns, Lost Highway and iPhone apps. Nothing is wholly original, this series is itself just his version of The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone. He's clearly a fan of pop culture but this is like saying Quentin Tarantino is an awful director because he wears his influences from Italian Westerns, wu shu Shaw Brothers film, Japanese gangster movies and American B movies on his sleeve. Everyone has influences, even Martin Scorcese will talk highly of John Ford, Frederico Fellini, Francois Truffaut and The Archers.
Declan_Khan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 03:37
Straker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,003
Nothing is wholly original......
So he shouldn’t try to be? Anyone who’s read/watched genre fiction for a few decades can spot Brooker’s sources with ease. He weaves them together with skill for the most part so like I said, nothing wrong with that, but I confess the most entertainment value I get from watching them is spotting the truly original stories that he’s taken from. I kinda think writers and programme makers should aspire to more loftier achievements than that myself. Perhaps if C4 didn’t promote the Black Mirror series as if they were tablets from the mount it might help lower expectations and be a more appropriate reflection of the well-worn SF tropes they present.

....this is like saying Quentin Tarantino is an awful director ...
A few exceptions aside he mostly is. Easily the most self-indulgent director working today which is fine if you want to watch reflexive homage/mash-ups to the film genres of his video-store youth.
Straker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 06:59
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 48,031
Great episode.

Also I loved her workstation, I hope those become real. Not too sure about the robot boyfriend though

To me it crossed over a few ideas, that of photographs and technology obviously, but also speaking to the dead.
I've always found it insulting to the memory of the dead that you can have things like seances, but if it brings comfort, does it matter? Does it stop you from moving on?
They already are, kind of.
Lots of artists use a Cintiq which is pretty much what that screen was. Only it was massive.
Alrightmate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 07:03
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 48,031
"Caprica"? They managed to make this idea (and, admittedly, several others) last for 18 episodes.
Using social media to round out a virtual person and then have them end up in a robot body was the basis for the entire series.
Zoe Greystone + killer robot = one of the best tv series ever to axed prematurely.
There's also a strong influence of the anime Ghost in the Shell too.
Alrightmate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 07:17
Tt88
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,341
I love Charlie Brooker and watch/read pretty much everything he does but I loathed and hated this, it sickened me and I have a very black sense of humour. It's imprinted on my mind and I wish it wasn't, I found it very disturbing, so much so that I didn't watch the next 2. I did watch last night's though and thought it very watchable.
For me the pm and the pig was so gripping because although it was far fetched, you could recognise how it could happen. The country was so outraged when the princess went missing and were so desperate to get her back they bullied the pm into doing anything.

They were so bothered about having her returned safely that nobody was around to notice that she was returned safely while they were all glued to the tv watching the pm.

It shows just how the nosey side of people can be. If they were all focused on their initial main aim of the princess and avoided the tv broadcast they would have saved the both of them.

This epidode was really good and had that familiar far fetched yet it could be a possibility one day feel to it! All of his shows although sci fi seem eerily possible in the future.
Tt88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 07:51
supernovadragon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,349
Some interesting ideas in the show...the ideas being the technological side of things of course. However, the high standard which was set with the first series has NOT been reached here yet. I felt let down and, not so much bored but, a bit meh about it. Reminded me a lot of the final one of the first series with the chip? Where you could replay your memories.

I didn't like the ending and felt it was unneeded. Saying that, at risk of contradicting myself, if it had ended just with them at the cliff I'd have felt cheated. I just don't think we needed to see him/it again at the end. Overall I'd give that one a 6/10
supernovadragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 10:16
DVDfever
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 14,285
And the pig ep wasn't that bad, it made me think anyway. I mean is saving a life not worth the cost? He didn't have to kill or hurt anyone.
I thought that was potentially realistic. Quite mad that anyone could get it up to have sex with a pig, but, oddly, the PM could still retain some dignity from it because no-one was laughing at him by the end.

I thought Black Mirror was ok , but nothing very new , I'll be honest the most compelling thing was Hayley Atwell's bangers , she's got a fantastic pair of jugs on her , she could probably give a Ken doll an erection
PMSL! Yep, they were quite something. Of course, when she takes her bra off, they might fall down to her knees...

I'd argue Eastenders is just as farcical if not as sci-fi oriented given the amount of sexual relationships Max Branning has given he is a bland, balding and overly aggressive ginger bloke who looks like he scrubs his face with a concrete based exfoliant and a washcloth made of sandpaper. Yet somehow he manages to bag women half his age off his better looking but now deceased son, strippers and still keep Tanya coming back for more. It's certainly not his charming demeanour or trustworthy, reliable nature.
It shows there's hope for all of us

To be fair I think expecting a feature length film by Anthony Minghella to be equalled by Charlie Brooker over the course of 43 minutes is like expecting a Mini Metro to beat a Ferrari. Hayley Atwell is very pretty and Brooker made it clear he thought she was too and has been a fan of hers since her early work in his Guardian columns since reprinted as books. She is certainly not as talented as Juliet Stevenson and the material was nowhere near as emotive, nor could it be given the sci-fi element making it unrealistic.
Bear in mind that TMD started life as a TV movie, rather than a cinema film, but it made the transition to the cinema afterwards.
DVDfever is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 14:26
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,054
So he shouldn’t try to be? Anyone who’s read/watched genre fiction for a few decades can spot Brooker’s sources with ease. He weaves them together with skill for the most part so like I said, nothing wrong with that, but I confess the most entertainment value I get from watching them is spotting the truly original stories that he’s taken from. I kinda think writers and programme makers should aspire to more loftier achievements than that myself. Perhaps if C4 didn’t promote the Black Mirror series as if they were tablets from the mount it might help lower expectations and be a more appropriate reflection of the well-worn SF tropes they present.



A few exceptions aside he mostly is. Easily the most self-indulgent director working today which is fine if you want to watch reflexive homage/mash-ups to the film genres of his video-store youth.
Just because you are familiar with the source material, doesn't mean everyone is. I think this thread shows that many are not taking as much away or seeing the things some of us are in the show.

I don't get Black Mirror being treated in that way. It's not presented like The Hour or Downtown Abbey, it is limited by it's very nature of being largely sci-fi based with the exception of TNA which was a grim farce set more or less in the current period we live in. Yes it does get promoted but to be fair given it's previous success that only makes sense in order to try bring back the old audience as well as bring in new viewers. Plus with generally less new scripted content on TV, it probably just seems like it stands out more as a result in the glut of reality TV shows, chat shows and panel shows.
Declan_Khan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 16:02
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 8,607
A perfectly edible, reheated TV dinner. Truly, Madly, Deeply via Final Cut via Body Snatchers with a soupcon of The Monkey’s Paw thrown in. Brooker’s read/seen ‘em all (Final Cut especially, so much so he must’ve worn a hole in it by now) and regurgitated them for our viewing pleasure. Nothing wrong with that, but an original voice he aint.
Judging things by the criteria of originality, you would find it difficult to find anything that is truly original.
Even science fiction itself began In ancient Greece, or maybe with the early Indian epics. There are even Sumerian texts that pre-date those.
Whatever you care to examine, you will find tales that explored the same theme, going back centuries. It's what you gain out of a piece of work that counts..in my opinion.
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:04
ironjade
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 8,127
Judging things by the criteria of originality, you would find it difficult to find anything that is truly original.
Even science fiction itself began In ancient Greece, or maybe with the early Indian epics. There are even Sumerian texts that pre-date those.
Whatever you care to examine, you will find tales that explored the same theme, going back centuries. It's what you gain out of a piece of work that counts..in my opinion.
How true:

"Through all the legends of ancient peoples - Assyrian, Babylonian, Sumerian, Semitic - runs the saga of the Eternal Man, the one who never dies. Called by various names in various times, but historically known as Gilgamesh, the man who has never tasted death, the hero who strides through the centuries."

Give yourself a bonus point if you know where this quote comes from.
ironjade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:06
Straker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,003
Judging things by the criteria of originality, you would find it difficult to find anything that is truly original.
I’m hearing that a lot. Some are reading it as an excuse to not even try and also as a reason to forgive derivative work. Am I to assume from what you say that any creative person should just content themselves with rehashing the past because “it’s all been done”?

I demand better if shows are going to be offered up in the way Black Mirror is. They are not original, not daring or cutting-edge - They are pastiches of SF and horror fiction and are perfectly enjoyable as such but just not original. It’s probably as much the fault of lazy reviewers who’ve never read an SF book in their lives pimping these up as “Roll up, roll up.....Brand New Ideas From The Pen of Charlie Brooker!”.
Straker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:19
Joe1500
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 212
The only Charlie Brooker drama I've enjoyed was the Big Brother zombie thing and that was very unoriginal, he should stick to critiquing drama not making it.
It's nice to see a critic who can actually create something. Makes a change to gabblemouths like Mark Kermode who can't do, so just critique.
Joe1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:23
Joe1500
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 212
The ending was weird though. It should have just ended with the scream.
I thought the ending was quite good. It seemed to be about how the artificial Ash never grew old and how she was left with something that quickly outlived its welcome.
Joe1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:35
Straker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,003
I thought the ending was quite good. It seemed to be about how the artificial Ash never grew old and how she was left with something that quickly outlived its welcome.
Yes, the resigned pause before she ascended the steps and the slam-cut to black was a good way to end it. Having said that if Brooker had found a way to do without the gro-bag Ash and still managed to make it creepy it would’ve been more effective and believable. It’s too much of a leap to ask for an audience to buy into such a concept without laying some serious groundwork/screentime first. That and the distractingly jiggly cleavage were errors of judgement IMO!
Straker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:38
Joe1500
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 212
Yes, well put - the clone Ash becomes like the photos of Ash's brother -kept in the attic when gone.

Leaving aside the SF elements, the obvious source for this was Truly Madly Deeply, except that unlike in that film, she doesn't move on.
The SF element was integral to this story. I can see a potential influence from the X Files epsiode Kaddish which involved a golem. However, I've no idea if this did influence Brooker.
Joe1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:41
Joe1500
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 212
Yes, the resigned pause before she ascended the steps and the slam-cut to black was a good way to end it. Having said that if Brooker had found a way to do without the gro-bag Ash and still managed to make it creepy it would’ve been more effective and believable. It’s too much of a leap to ask for an audience to buy into such a concept without laying some serious groundwork/screentime first. That and the distractingly jiggly cleavage were errors of judgement IMO!
Jiggly cleavage is rarely an error of judgement
Joe1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:08
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,054
I’m hearing that a lot. Some are reading it as an excuse to not even try and also as a reason to forgive derivative work. Am I to assume from what you say that any creative person should just content themselves with rehashing the past because “it’s all been done”?

I demand better if shows are going to be offered up in the way Black Mirror is. They are not original, not daring or cutting-edge - They are pastiches of SF and horror fiction and are perfectly enjoyable as such but just not original. It’s probably as much the fault of lazy reviewers who’ve never read an SF book in their lives pimping these up as “Roll up, roll up.....Brand New Ideas From The Pen of Charlie Brooker!”.
I think you'd need to be either the head of programming or a producer to be in any position to do that.

It's a modern version of Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits, Tales From The Crypt or The Twilight Zone. It never claimed to be Masterpiece Theatre. It's very nature dictates it's material will not be incredibly highbrow, just hopefully though provoking.

As for lazy reviewers... I think you're starting to project and imagine things for your own liking there. He's not responsible for reviewers opinions or their lack of knowledge.
Declan_Khan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:09
brewer480
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 315
Personally this was my favourite ep of BM so far. Its the only one that i could potentially see becoming physically possible. I really liked the way the technology kept upgrading in time from being able to just type, to talking and then becoming a human life. A bit of a shame they didn't continue with the upgrades so the fake ash was more realistic. It's a good way of showing corporate exploitation and how vulnerable people can get trapped from them.

I thought the ending was necessary, it's important to know that she was not able to move on with the new technology and so ultimately the technology was bad for her.

The series to me is getting better as it goes on. I think the national anthem was rediculous though, politicians dont care what the public think about a certain issue if their job or reputation is on the line. Plus they would know that a form of beastality (even if "forced") would whip their job right away!
brewer480 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:17
brewer480
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 315
I think you'd need to be either the head of programming or a producer to be in any position to do that.

It's a modern version of Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits, Tales From The Crypt or The Twilight Zone. It never claimed to be Masterpiece Theatre. It's very nature dictates it's material will not be incredibly highbrow, just hopefully though provoking.

As for lazy reviewers... I think you're starting to project and imagine things for your own liking there. He's not responsible for reviewers opinions or their lack of knowledge.
Absolutely agree, this type of program isn't supposed to be one that breaks the boundaries or creates a new form of sci fi. It's a program that is trying to show awareness to us how new technology may not always be that great. It's not a program you're supposed to enjoy but one that makes you think a lot after!

If you demand more watch a sci fi channel!
brewer480 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:24
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,054
Absolutely agree, this type of program isn't supposed to be one that breaks the boundaries or creates a new form of sci fi. It's a program that is trying to show awareness to us how new technology may not always be that great. It's not a program you're supposed to enjoy but one that makes you think a lot after!

If you demand more watch a sci fi channel!
Well the title is meant to be not only about portraying grim possible reflections of modern life or the near future but also what a TV turned off resembles. I think it does a decent job of showing what could happen and as I noted with the Nadine Dorries/I'm A Celeb... situation, it did fairly predict the idea of a person in government degrading themselves in the hopes of public approval by doing unsanitary things with animal parts...
Declan_Khan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:31
MadManWithABox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 259
I quite enjoyed the first half, but it kind of petered out for me. It felt like Brooker didn't know quite what to do with the guy by the end. I was also expecting it to go more down a 'the danger of people knowing everything about a person' route than a 'he's not quite the guy he's meant to be' route. Still, enjoyable enough.
MadManWithABox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:41
doom&gloom
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,803
It's nice to see a critic who can actually create something. Makes a change to gabblemouths like Mark Kermode who can't do, so just critique.
Mark Kermode is not a TV producer though as far as I know or he might have had a go.
doom&gloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:50
Robin Davies
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 165
I’m hearing that a lot. Some are reading it as an excuse to not even try and also as a reason to forgive derivative work. Am I to assume from what you say that any creative person should just content themselves with rehashing the past because “it’s all been done”?

I demand better if shows are going to be offered up in the way Black Mirror is. They are not original, not daring or cutting-edge - They are pastiches of SF and horror fiction and are perfectly enjoyable as such but just not original.
Can you cite a TV series that is totally original?
Robin Davies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:56
Declan_Khan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,054
I quite enjoyed the first half, but it kind of petered out for me. It felt like Brooker didn't know quite what to do with the guy by the end. I
was also expecting it to go more down a 'the danger of people knowing everything about a person' route than a 'he's not quite the guy he's meant to be' route
. Still, enjoyable enough.
I think that may affect your enjoyment if you go into a show like this with assumptions. I tend to watch something twice, once to enjoy it, the second to analyse it so I can kind of enjoy it as a viewer and the critique it or refresh myself on any details I missed the first time.
Mark Kermode is not a TV producer though as far as I know or he might have had a go.
But Kermode is a writer and critic just like Brooker. If he can get his own radio show and role on The Culture Show, he obviously has an audience he just has yet to write anything for the TV medium aside from Culture Show monologues.
Declan_Khan is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:34.