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Vastra, Jenny and Strax - Why?


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Old 29-01-2013, 22:52
nottelling
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Why and why have they somehow (in some strange factions of the fandom) gained some sort of huge popularity to become semi-regular characters. I honestly don't see what makes them interesting, they have little personality and rely heavily on gimmicks to try and give them something interesting, which fails. I mean whats suppose to like about Vasta and Jenny. That ones a silurian with a katana who likes to have lesbian sex with the latter? Yeah that's not really much, since they don't have any clear motivations or objectives whenever they are a story disregarding whats ever been shoehorned in. And Strax is a Sontaran who likes to spout out witty one liners - yet there is no explanation why a sontaran is doing that in the first place. Doesn't help that the acting is average (I mean Duggan from the City of Death was pretty much your everyday man but atleast the performance of Tom Chadbon made him very endearing) and the two stories they have been in below average at best (the less said about A good man goes to war the better).

I admit that I a bit of bias, since I thought that the story arc of Series 6 was complete horsesh*t and the two partner A good man goes to war/Let's kill Hitler one of the lowest points in the shows history. Which saw this trio introduced so hastily and shoddily that we had no time to evaluate them and get to know them. But the Snowmen did nothing to make them more endearing to me and just made them look the same, bland and uninspiring. Yet they will be appearing for another 2 episodes, which will taint the rest of the series sightly.
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:20
Granny McSmith
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What's a katana?
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:21
Lulz77
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What's a two partner?
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:24
DavetheScot
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I guess we'll have to differ; I think they're excellent characters.
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:34
nottelling
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A japanese sword which for some odd reason the writers decided to give her (Vastra), she hardly uses it so it seems like another pointless gimmick to try and make her at the least bit interesting.
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:35
Scraggy Taters
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Wasn't she in Atomic Kitten ?
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:39
Abomination
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In seriousness towards the topic at hand ( ) I think they were introduced as a bit of an anchor for the companion. They're Moffat's less domestic and more sci-fi equivelant of Jackie and Mickey, or Wilf and Sylvia. It gives the character of Clara a bit of grounding - many people didn't like the lack of grounding for Amy and Rory (with her parents seen briefly in one episode, and his Dad shoehorned in at the end) but they got by by having the link to the regular appearances from River.
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Old 30-01-2013, 00:52
sohoguy
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Why and why have they somehow (in some strange factions of the fandom) gained some sort of huge popularity to become semi-regular characters. I honestly don't see what makes them interesting, they have little personality and rely heavily on gimmicks to try and give them something interesting, which fails. I mean whats suppose to like about Vasta and Jenny. That ones a silurian with a katana who likes to have lesbian sex with the latter? Yeah that's not really much, since they don't have any clear motivations or objectives whenever they are a story disregarding whats ever been shoehorned in. And Strax is a Sontaran who likes to spout out witty one liners - yet there is no explanation why a sontaran is doing that in the first place. Doesn't help that the acting is average (I mean Duggan from the City of Death was pretty much your everyday man but atleast the performance of Tom Chadbon made him very endearing) and the two stories they have been in below average at best (the less said about A good man goes to war the better).

I admit that I a bit of bias, since I thought that the story arc of Series 6 was complete horsesh*t and the two partner A good man goes to war/Let's kill Hitler one of the lowest points in the shows history. Which saw this trio introduced so hastily and shoddily that we had no time to evaluate them and get to know them. But the Snowmen did nothing to make them more endearing to me and just made them look the same, bland and uninspiring. Yet they will be appearing for another 2 episodes, which will taint the rest of the series sightly.
"(in some strange factions of the fandom)" - Well, no actually! They are liked by many people, not just fans. Just because you personally don't, that doesn't mean the people who do are somehow weirdos.

I think they add variety and colour to the show. Nice to see aliens we know well reinterpreted into different time periods and it's quite comedic.

I like them.
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Old 30-01-2013, 01:53
johnnysaucepn
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Vastra, Jenny and Strax have no point? Really?

The Doctor's army is pointedly made up of people who the Doctor has touched - people who he has changed, turned away from their natures even, and who owe him in return. Their presence ties in with the bigger theme of the storyline - is the impact that the Doctor has on people around him a good thing or bad? They rally around to help him, but he's the reason the Ponds are in danger - and Lorna only joined up for the sake of meeting him, and paid the price for it.

Duggan was one-dimensional comic relief that wanted to punch things.
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Old 30-01-2013, 02:12
nottelling
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Vastra, Jenny and Strax have no point? Really?

The Doctor's army is pointedly made up of people who the Doctor has touched - people who he has changed, turned away from their natures even, and who owe him in return. Their presence ties in with the bigger theme of the storyline - is the impact that the Doctor has on people around him a good thing or bad? They rally around to help him, but he's the reason the Ponds are in danger - and Lorna only joined up for the sake of meeting him, and paid the price for it.

Duggan was one-dimensional comic relief that wanted to punch things.
Problem was that the whole story arc that they first appeared was a pile of some of the worse sh*it I have ever seen in a drama. An overblown clunked up mess where all of the side characters are rushed in and have no time to developed their place in the story individually.

With Duggan, i felt like he was part of the story, the chemistry between him, The Doctor and Romana worked and he had a likeable personality. In short I was interested in Duggan, the trio, could't care less about em ad was surprised that they got a lo of popularity.
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Old 30-01-2013, 02:28
Abomination
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Problem was that the whole story arc that they first appeared was a pile of some of the worse sh*it I have ever seen in a drama. An overblown clunked up mess where all of the side characters are rushed in and have no time to developed their place in the story individually.
I have to agree with most of this. I admittedly enjoyed the River Song storyline across Series 6, but felt that the characters were poorly portrayed or developed - the same with The Wedding of River Song, actually. Stories like these used to be afforded two-parters and could develop such characters to make us care about them more. Now it's condensed into 45 minutes that are often not actually being told in chronological order... there's a point at which too much timey-wimey spoils the temporal broth
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Old 30-01-2013, 09:47
Shevk
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Because they are cool.
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Old 30-01-2013, 10:02
Granny McSmith
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Because they are cool.
And sexy. Well, not Strax. But Vastra, definitely. And maybe Strax is to some, who knows?
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Old 30-01-2013, 10:23
Ed Sizzers
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Here's a better question.

Why do people start threads essentially asking "Why do people like something that I don't like?" At the end of the day, you're only gonna get two responses. People explaining why they like whatever or whoever it is, which won't convince you to change your mind. Or people agreeing with you, which is likely because even the most popular things still have a few people that don't like them (see also, the equally pointless "Am I the only one who.....?" threads).
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Old 30-01-2013, 10:44
darthbibble
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Here's a better question.

Why do people start threads essentially asking "Why do people like something that I don't like?" At the end of the day, you're only gonna get two responses. People explaining why they like whatever or whoever it is, which won't convince you to change your mind. Or people agreeing with you, which is likely because even the most popular things still have a few people that don't like them (see also, the equally pointless "Am I the only one who.....?" threads).
This.
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Old 30-01-2013, 11:45
Shawn_Lunn
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Because they're fun characters played by good actors who work well with each other?
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Old 30-01-2013, 13:13
hypergreenfrog
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Here's a better question.

Why do people start threads essentially asking "Why do people like something that I don't like?" At the end of the day, you're only gonna get two responses. People explaining why they like whatever or whoever it is, which won't convince you to change your mind. Or people agreeing with you, which is likely because even the most popular things still have a few people that don't like them (see also, the equally pointless "Am I the only one who.....?" threads).
IMO, such threads are not entirely pointless, as long as people are genuinely curious about the subject.
As with anything else in life, it can sometimes be hard to understand why certain characters are successful, but once someone explains their reasons for liking them, it becomes clearer.
I never liked Amy very much, but after reading lots of comments from her fans, I did get an idea why people liked her.

I do agree with you though that any thread becomes pointless if the OP doesn't really want to know, but simply expects praise for his/her statement that something is awful and should be cut.

To answer the OP, I don't like Vastra and Jenny much, though I don't mind them either. I like Strax a lot, he is classic comic relief.
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Old 30-01-2013, 13:21
johnnysaucepn
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Problem was that the whole story arc that they first appeared was a pile of some of the worse sh*it I have ever seen in a drama. An overblown clunked up mess where all of the side characters are rushed in and have no time to developed their place in the story individually.
In which case, you missed the point entirely. We don't need detail. The whole idea is that these characters know the Doctor well, and we don't know them at all. The narrative device is there to give the impression of the bigger universe, that there are so many untold stories of the Doctor that even we don't know. That the Doctor has touched more lives that even the viewers can keep up with. As such, they are given as much introduction and development as any recurring character.

We don't see Jackie Tyler being given backstory and motivation in every episode she appears in. It's a testament to Moffat's character writing skill that the characters became so interesting and well-loved without the time to settle in with the audience.

With Duggan, i felt like he was part of the story, the chemistry between him, The Doctor and Romana worked and he had a likeable personality. In short I was interested in Duggan, the trio, could't care less about em ad was surprised that they got a lo of popularity.
Go on then, without looking it up, tell me one thing about Duggan apart from him being a detective that likes punching things.
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Old 30-01-2013, 13:31
JohnnyForget
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Old 30-01-2013, 17:52
Dogmatix
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'This'? What's that? Is it 'forumspeak'? What does it mean, that you agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment previously expressed? I'm not trying to criticise; I just don't know what this 'this' means. Talking of which, I sometimes see 'meh' as a response in a forum; what does that mean?
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Old 30-01-2013, 18:17
Tumpy
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Because I like them and mine is the only opinion that matters.

Ooops sorry wrong thread.
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Old 30-01-2013, 18:27
Sue_Aitch
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'This'? What's that? Is it 'forumspeak'? What does it mean, that you agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment previously expressed? I'm not trying to criticise; I just don't know what this 'this' means. Talking of which, I sometimes see 'meh' as a response in a forum; what does that mean?
The use of 'This' here is a slightly quicker way of saying 'Ditto' or in parliamentary language "Hear, hear" and the Urban Dictionary gives other examples

'Meh' is one of Donna's lines in "Silence in the Library" IIRC.
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Old 30-01-2013, 19:44
GDK
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Meh = so so / I'm indifferent [to the subject]

I think it's American/Yiddish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh
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Old 31-01-2013, 06:02
Paradise_Lost
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Meh = so so / I'm indifferent [to the subject]

I think it's American/Yiddish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh
Don't think it's Yiddish. I remember one of the Simpsons writers saying it was completely random and made up on the spot. So just a neologism.
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Old 31-01-2013, 07:44
FATCHOPS
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Why and why have they somehow (in some strange factions of the fandom) gained some sort of huge popularity to become semi-regular characters. I honestly don't see what makes them interesting, they have little personality and rely heavily on gimmicks to try and give them something interesting, which fails. I mean whats suppose to like about Vasta and Jenny. That ones a silurian with a katana who likes to have lesbian sex with the latter? Yeah that's not really much, since they don't have any clear motivations or objectives whenever they are a story disregarding whats ever been shoehorned in. And Strax is a Sontaran who likes to spout out witty one liners - yet there is no explanation why a sontaran is doing that in the first place. Doesn't help that the acting is average (I mean Duggan from the City of Death was pretty much your everyday man but atleast the performance of Tom Chadbon made him very endearing) and the two stories they have been in below average at best (the less said about A good man goes to war the better).

I admit that I a bit of bias, since I thought that the story arc of Series 6 was complete horsesh*t and the two partner A good man goes to war/Let's kill Hitler one of the lowest points in the shows history. Which saw this trio introduced so hastily and shoddily that we had no time to evaluate them and get to know them. But the Snowmen did nothing to make them more endearing to me and just made them look the same, bland and uninspiring. Yet they will be appearing for another 2 episodes, which will taint the rest of the series sightly.
I disagree with every point in this. Not only do I think the opinions are wrong I think most of the facts are too.
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