[joe_000]

Well said. Totally agree so let's stop pretending the shift to September is because darker evenings are better for the show rather than barbecue weather.

[Dr. Linus]

Originally Posted by joe_000

Well said. Totally agree so let's stop pretending the shift to September is because darker evenings are better for the show rather than barbecue weather.

Exactly, that was always a ridiculous excuse considering that the highest rated regular episode was Journey's End which aired in the middle of July in broad daylight, and that Blink, and Midnight also went out in broad daylight and were considered to be absolutely terrifying. It was just PR spin.

[tvmad-alan]

The last main post about who is the show runner and writes the Dr Who is a good point and yes it must be hard for a wirter to keep up with the way BBC books and puts out contacts for new seasons of shows as they are a mess as actors never know when or if they will have a show to act on and need to go off to act some other show or places like stage......

We need a real mangerment from the BBC that tell staff to book seasons that at same amount of shows per year ( 16 to 24 ) at the same time, so wirters, studios, actors, crews all know when they have work and that public do not have shows put all over the years and differnet channels and times .... We need BBC to give writers time work and them to know a real deadline and how many shows needed each year and this would give better shows I feel as they will not have cut or change lines etc.. to please the different booking of shows and seasons lenghts.....

I feel one of main trouble we have with all types of shows made for UK TV is the booking and contacting of shows as writers etc are not already at drop of hat to make good shows...

Yes Dr Who has been cut in 2013 no matter how you add it together with only one show made new and shown this year up now ( as BBC may change this as time comes and then there Xmas )

The 8 shows to come were part of last season ( 2012 ) and yes they were over year from last season which was mess with time of the year...and time on the day...

BBC need real action to give us all better shows with contacting new seasons of all different shows on our screens and I still feel it would save money as each season the BBC would have real number shows to sell to others around the world.
And us that pay for the BBC service would know when our best BBC shows will be on our screens each year and all that work on the shows would know that they have work at that time each year and writing would be a lot better too.....

S.O.S = Save Our Shows....

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by tvmad-alan

We need a real mangerment from the BBC that tell staff to book seasons that at same amount of shows per year ( 16 to 24 )

No, that's the last thing that DW (and the whole production team) needs.

If you watched any number of DW Confidentials, you would know that to make even 13/14 programmes in a year takes a massive chunk of time, with what is often a punishing filming schedule. To make 16/24 would work the team into the ground, would ensure that they are working solidly for every month of the year, and would lead to many of them quitting early due to the workload. And that's not even mentioning the time to write and develop the scripts, or the length of time that various studios and SFX companies are tied up in DW production (and each Cardiff studio or production suite that is tied to a DW production is a Cardiff studio or production suite that cannot be used for any other BBC Wales production - BBC Wales produces much more than just DW at Roath Lock).

You seem to have this 16/24 episode notion stuck in your head - get rid of it. The UK TV production industry does not work like the US TV production industry.



It might come as a shock, but many actors, producers and directors want and need to work on a variety of things (yes, even Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch want to do things outside of Sherlock). If you have a filming schedule that is so tight as to leave little time for anything else, you can be certain that many of the leading actors (teh incumbent Doctor included) will not want to commit their time and so will either sign only short-term contracts, or will not want to take on the challenge at all.

[TheSilentFez]

Originally Posted by rwebster

No, but then nobody's said that. I think the reason people are peeved is because if we were going to have less than fourteen episodes a year they could at least have mentioned it. Which I basically get.

When the gap year hit in 2009, we were ready for it, we understood the behind-the-scenes reasons for it, we knew about the full year that was following, and while not everyone liked it, the future of the show was secure and it was basically accepted. This time, though, we've had a while where all we've been told was something along the lines of, "You're not getting a reduced number of episodes - in fact, the opposite will happen."

It's 2013, and the tories are in power. People don't expect the BBC to leave the taps running all the time. Things come up, doors close, and making money appear is far easier said than done. It's fine if the intense production cycle's making things difficult. What's harder to swallow is all the spin and contradictions - no official word, no sources. The vibe isn't, "Where's my Doctor Who, I deserve it on a platter." It's more along the lines of, "I'm clever, and I'm listening. Now don't patronise me, 'cause people have died and I'm not happy," to quote Sally Sparrow!

Nobody's died, although series seven admittedly looks increasingly like it might be series eight in a wig, but the gist's there. I think it's an understandable thing to get antsy about, and it comes from a loving place. If we're not getting the usual two series in 2012 and 2013, it'd be nice to know why, and it'd be nice to know where "More Doctor Who than ever before" came from, too.

That said, Steven Moffat has sort of gone on the record about the production delays. We know exactly why S7P1 didn't broadcast 'til September, and that's because he needed a break. Burnt out! Said as much in Doctor Who Magazine - so it's possible that, in the fullness of time, we'll see that this is our recommended yearly allowance of Who, just on a bit of a time-delay so the showrunner doesn't die. That this has kind of been lost in the sea of "More Doctor Who than ever before" isn't exactly a PR triumph, but it does raise the question of when exactly they realised they weren't going to do two series in two years. For all we know, an increased run might've been the plan when they said it, and things that have happened since have painted them into a PR corner.

See how complicated this is?! I've got sympathy for the production team, but I've got sympathy for any disgruntled fans as well. Whatever's going on with series seven, it seems more complicated than anyone wanted it to be.

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.
I'm really missing the excitement I used to feel when we had a full 13 episode series every year and I want more than anything to go back to that. However, I accept that this may not be possible any longer and can understand if the production crew have to cut back on the number of episodes. What does irritate me is the fact that we have all been left in the dark about the show. There have been no announcements regarding scheduling at all. In fact, most of what we know about the 50th anniversary is speculation. Some of the guesses may be educated ones, but the fact remains that we are left to speculate for ourselves.

All I'd like is an announcement by the BBC in the Radio Times or something which would say exactly what we can expect to have for the 50th and if or when we can expect to go back to a full series per year, all without the spin which has led me to believe that not even Moffat seems to know what the BBC are doing with the show.
Is this really too much to ask?

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by kyllerbuzcut

That's 2 episodes in the previous decade up until 2011 for Dickens, yet none since.
I think we're now getting conned into getting less Dickens on TV

I blame Thatcher.

[Sara_Peplow]

I agree he needs to make a decison soon. 2 shows are too much for 1 person. We have part 2 to look forward to in the spring. November is the 50th. After that who knows ?. Love to have a christmas special a month later. Need to hear soon about S8. Who is going to be producing and staring in it. Either a full spring/summer or autumn/winter run for 2014.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by Sara_Peplow

I agree he needs to make a decison soon. 2 shows are too much for 1 person.

Why? Especially when one of those shows is only three 90-mins episodes, and where the production schedules are also reliant upon both main actors being free of other TV and film commitments (Sherlock S3 was delayed due to Benedict's crowded schedule, and quite possibly Martin Freeman's Hobbit shooting).

Sometimes, even the best plans get thrown by external forces or the coming together of two or more quite separate events.

[johnnysaucepn]

Originally Posted by TheSilentFez

However, I accept that this may not be possible any longer and can understand if the production crew have to cut back on the number of episodes. What does irritate me is the fact that we have all been left in the dark about the show. There have been no announcements regarding scheduling at all.

But it has always been thus. The BBC's policy on what gets announced and when hasn't really changed, and it's much in line with other channels.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

But it has always been thus. The BBC's policy on what gets announced and when hasn't really changed, and it's much in line with other channels.

Never show your full hand too early, and in most cases nver more than a month before the event. It keep the other broadcasters guessing, and an help prevent them from scheduling spoiler programmes against yours.

[nebogipfel]

To give credit where it is due : Moffat did tell us a few months ago that the schedule is out of his hands. I took that to be a partial climbdown from his previous comments that led people to think it was about him moving it to winter or making more than ever before. I wouldn't expect him to directly go back on all that, but took it as a signal from him that it was bluff and to move on.

More recently Moffat has told us what to expect: Watch series 7b and then after that he'll tell us what they've got planned for the 50th.

I know that doesn't match with the previous "event every week" type hints, but it is at least more accurate than those!

Probably best to accept it for what it is, enjoy the anticipation of announcements in the summer and then, hopefully, normal service in 2014.

[Torry_Z]

This entitlement culture is just rediculous. Cult shows such as Red Dwarf only ever had 6 episodes per series maybe 8 in later I can.t quite recall and no series9... just none. stop whining it's television not a straightjacket for the production team just because we feel we should have 13 eps a year. this isn't America and I'm glad... most actors who work big seasons don't do much else and.if they do it's ensemble shows.. you'd moan about filler of doctor lite episodes if we had a 24 ep run..

[DiscoP]

Originally Posted by Sara_Peplow

I agree he needs to make a decison soon. 2 shows are too much for 1 person. We have part 2 to look forward to in the spring. November is the 50th. After that who knows ?. Love to have a christmas special a month later. Need to hear soon about S8. Who is going to be producing and staring in it. Either a full spring/summer or autumn/winter run for 2014.

Are two shows too much for one person, really? Given that RTD was also running Torchwood and SJA at the same time as Doctor Who.

Personally I would love more Doctor Who and Sherlock each year but it is quite clear, particularly with Sherlock, that both Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch are very in demand at the moment so we are really lucky to get anymore Sherlock from them ever and Moffat working on it 24/7 wouldn't make any difference to that.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by DiscoP

Are two shows too much for one person, really? Given that RTD was also running Torchwood and SJA at the same time as Doctor Who.

Personally I would love more Doctor Who and Sherlock each year but it is quite clear, particularly with Sherlock, that both Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch are very in demand at the moment so we are really lucky to get anymore Sherlock from them ever and Moffat working on it 24/7 wouldn't make any difference to that.

I have to agree with that.

[The Gatherer]

Originally Posted by Torry_Z

This entitlement culture is just rediculous. Cult shows such as Red Dwarf only ever had 6 episodes per series maybe 8 in later I can.t quite recall and no series9... just none. stop whining it's television not a straightjacket for the production team just because we feel we should have 13 eps a year. this isn't America and I'm glad... most actors who work big seasons don't do much else and.if they do it's ensemble shows.. you'd moan about filler of doctor lite episodes if we had a 24 ep run..

No it is not at all ridiculous. What's wrong with wanting a mere 14 episodes of Doctor Who a year? EastEnders fans get the equivalent every six weeks. No one has advocated a 24 episode run. I personally wouldn't mind some more Doctor light episodes anyway - there's a big (Doctor Who) universe out there and a story featuring monsters and / or companions without the Doctor would be fine.

[Joe_Zel]

Originally Posted by The Gatherer

No it is not at all ridiculous. What's wrong with wanting a mere 14 episodes of Doctor Who a year? EastEnders fans get the equivalent every six weeks. No one has advocated a 24 episode run. I personally wouldn't mind some more Doctor light episodes anyway - there's a big (Doctor Who) universe out there and a story featuring monsters and / or companions without the Doctor would be fine.

Eastenders isn't comparable. It's cheaper to film, they have a large cast to share the workload, have their own set/studio which is used solely for EE and not for other shows and it's ran more like a machine. They churn out 4 episodes a week and you can tell (especially nowadays) in the lack of quality.

[SuperDude95]

I don't mind that there are less episodes, I just wish the BBC and Steven Moffat would stop lying it.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by SuperDude95

I don't mind that there are less episodes, I just wish the BBC and Steven Moffat would stop lying it.

They are not lying though.

If they said that there would be more Doctor Who episodes than ever before then they might be lying.

But "more Doctor Who than ever before" could (and in some cases does) encompass DW documentaries, DW-related specials of other programmes such as Pointless Celebrities and Mastermind (maybe even University Challenge), programmes with DW actors as guests (Graham Norton, The One Show, Blue Peter, BBC Breakfast etc), Strictly Come Dancing with DW themes and/or actors as contestants, repeats of specific old episodes, DW docu-dramas and features, repeats of complete nu-Who series, features on the BBC Radiophonic Workshop at Maida Vale ......

[snakecharmer37]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

They are not lying though.

If they said that there would be more Doctor Who episodes than ever before then they might be lying.

But "more Doctor Who than ever before" could (and in some cases does) encompass DW documentaries, DW-related specials of other programmes such as Pointless Celebrities and Mastermind (maybe even University Challenge), programmes with DW actors as guests (Graham Norton, The One Show, Blue Peter, BBC Breakfast etc), Strictly Come Dancing with DW themes and/or actors as contestants, repeats of specific old episodes, DW docu-dramas and features, repeats of complete nu-Who series, features on the BBC Radiophonic Workshop at Maida Vale ......

Yes he is, has and does lie about Doctor Who. When he states that 2013 will be crammed full, he knows very well people will be expecting more new episodes. Not dreary documentary's, strictly, blue peter or any other of the rubbish you mentioned. That is not Doctor Who, no matter how much they wrap crinkly paper round it and tie a Doctor Who ribbon on. As for repeats, why bother. Most of us have watched every single episode of the new series, plus got them on DVD. As for the classic series, same applies. Except for the missing ones of course.
It is obvious that is what is going to happen, rather than have more new episodes. I just wish that Moffat would come straight out with it, because what he's doing is just annoying people, and there will be further disappointment when we do finally find out what is happening. If he wants to damage the show, he is going the right way about it.

[Theophile]

Originally Posted by snakecharmer37

If he wants to damage the show, he is going the right way about it.

(Emphasis mine.)

I would argue that he couldn't do much more damage than he did with Seasons 31 & 32 (Series 5 & 6).

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by snakecharmer37

Yes he is, has and does lie about Doctor Who. When he states that 2013 will be crammed full, he knows very well people will be expecting more new episodes. Not dreary documentary's, strictly, blue peter or any other of the rubbish you mentioned. That is not Doctor Who, no matter how much they wrap crinkly paper round it and tie a Doctor Who ribbon on. As for repeats, why bother. Most of us have watched every single episode of the new series, plus got them on DVD. As for the classic series, same applies. Except for the missing ones of course.

Sorry, but your opinion, your interpretation, does not make him a liar.

You, and others it seems, may have chosen an interpretation that suits an optimistic viewpoint of more episodes. That's personal interpretation, not someone lying (or even spinning).

And of course, you cannot speak for everyone when you state rather categorically "Most of us have watched every single episode of the new series, plus got them on DVD. "

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Sorry, but your opinion, your interpretation, does not make him a liar.

You, and others it seems, may have chosen an interpretation that suits an optimistic viewpoint of more episodes. That's personal interpretation, not someone lying (or even spinning).

And of course, you cannot speak for everyone when you state rather categorically "Most of us have watched every single episode of the new series, plus got them on DVD. "

How would you "choose" to interprete this:

"you don't reduce a programme like this, the opposite is going to happen in fact"?

Pointless Celebrities special?

I also tire of people getting overly rude about the production team. But we don't need to be in denial that there have been several differences between what has been said, what has actually happened and what appears very likely to be happening soon.

It seems almost absurd to pretend that none of the comments amounted to spin. Or, at best, unfortunately optimistic and unrealistic hopes spoken directly by Moffat.

edit: On the positive side Tom Spilsbury has been quoted as mentioning "anniversary episodes", which might indicate more than just the one episode that BBC Worldwide told the toy industry to expect. Of course Tom has posted on this forum to remind us that he is a journalist and dependent on what the production team tell him, rather than direct personal knowledge. But we can cross fingers. Unfortunately two specials still wouldn't amount to more than ever, but would be nice all the same.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

How would you "choose" to interprete this:

"you don't reduce a programme like this, the opposite is going to happen in fact"?

Rather too little detail to be sure, but it would suggest that there will be more DW programmes (of what nature, we are not told). Where exactly did that quote come from, and in what context was it made?

And to be fair, I was actually responding to the oft-quoted "more Doctor Who than ever before"

Pointless Celebrities special?

Perhaps. Who knows. I was offering it as a suggestion of DW-themed programmes, including so-called "dreary documentaries" (sic) like An Adventure in Space and Time.

But to pointedly call someone a liar and in doing to profess to know exactly what they were thinking is in itself very rude and uncalled for in my book.

[nebogipfel]

When we were recently told to wait until after 7b for firm news about the anniversary I thought that was fair enough. But it doesn't stop it being true that this is a change of position from the production team. They have created a situation where many people quite reasonably believe they HAVE been told roughly what to expect. "more than ever", the opposite of reduction, an event every week etc.

So I think it best to accept that for reasons known to themselves they won't quite be doing things in quite the way people thought. There's no need to be over the top with anger, but no need to pretend it is a joyous horn of plenty either.

[mossy2103]

I have just edited my post to ask of the quote "you don't reduce a programme like this, the opposite is going to happen in fact":

Where exactly did that quote come from, and in what context was it made?