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Co- writers have ruined music


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Old 01-02-2013, 22:37
principessa
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http://www.musicweek.com//news/read/...rformer/053416

Radio play is now dictated by how many co- writers you have as there's no money to be made in record sales. Writing the songs is the only profitable part of the business.

I can only think of one artist who writes all her own stuff - Amy Macdonald
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Old 01-02-2013, 22:52
sparkle22
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agreed why is there so many writing credit on songs take mariah & madonna both usually just wrote with one other person in madonna's case stephen bray & patrick leonard.
Now there's like lots of credits even boy george said in an interview he's done writing sessions where people did nothing.
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Old 01-02-2013, 23:04
glyn9799
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One song which I remember having tons of writers is Sugababes 'Round Round'. In their Greatest Hits booklet it's got about 13 writers. It did sample a track though, so they weren't all there in one go.
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Old 01-02-2013, 23:50
Hav_mor91
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There always has been and always will be co-writers some of the best music in the world was co-written i see and take no issue.
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Old 02-02-2013, 00:08
Geiger
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To an extent, it's possible, but I don't think co-writing is by itself a problem. The problem is more that the co-writers are writing, in my opinion, rubbish songs and the people who matter to the charts want this rubbish music. It's rubbish in, rubbish out; it doesn't matter whose rubbish it is.

The idea of songs being written by co-writers or other people being the sole problem with music is just too easy. Roy Orbison had co-writers, it didn't make his music any less great. Groups like The Ronettes, Crystals, etc. didn't write their own music, but it was still fantastic work. Co-writers can make great work - but they have to be good co-writers working for good singers. Personally, in my out of touch opinion, we don't have either these days.
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Old 02-02-2013, 00:34
Hav_mor91
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To an extent, it's possible, but I don't think co-writing is by itself a problem. The problem is more that the co-writers are writing, in my opinion, rubbish songs and the people who matter to the charts want this rubbish music. It's rubbish in, rubbish out; it doesn't matter whose rubbish it is.

The idea of songs being written by co-writers or other people being the sole problem with music is just too easy. Roy Orbison had co-writers, it didn't make his music any less great. Groups like The Ronettes, Crystals, etc. didn't write their own music, but it was still fantastic work. Co-writers can make great work - but they have to be good co-writers working for good singers. Personally, in my out of touch opinion, we don't have either these days.
But then at some point the blame lays with the consumer. Music is now more of a product than it ever was and as long as people want the kind of chart friendly rubbish that is churned out in a conveyer belt manner there will be people willing to make and profit from it. My issues isn't co-writers but the lack of artistry and imagination there is in music and that isn't solely the faut.lt of co-writers there are a whole range of factors involved in that. But again there is and always will be great music if you look for i
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:15
DRAGON LANCE
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Agreed I don't think itís an issue with co-writers. Some truly great music has been written that way, so itís not in itself a bad thing. I think there are good and bad examples of co-writing. Sure there are pop acts that maybe all they do is write one word just so they get a credit, but to take that as an example of all co-writing is wrong. Itís usually at its best when you get a pairing of someone who is very talented at actually writing the music, and someone who is very talented at writing the lyrics coming together. I see that as no different to what happens in bands anyway. There is nothing wrong with two great artists collaborating to make something great.

I do agree itís more an issue that what gets in the charts now is more a styled product. We could blame the record companies for this, but people seem to keep wanting their pop as a styled product rather than an "organically" put together enterprise by artists. Such is the way of the world these days.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:10
mushymanrob
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its not co writers that are the problem, not real co writers anyway...indeed many of the greatest tracks ever composed had co writers.

the problem is that anyone who adds a note or tweek here and there now get credited as co writers. to me, a co writer is someone who has a sizeable input into the creation of a track... like bernie taupin/elton john...
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:15
LaVieEnRose
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its not co writers that are the problem, not real co writers anyway...indeed many of the greatest tracks ever composed had co writers.

the problem is that anyone who adds a note or tweek here and there now get credited as co writers. to me, a co writer is someone who has a sizeable input into the creation of a track... like bernie taupin/elton john...
This ^

I can only think of one artist who writes all her own stuff - Amy Macdonald
Good grief
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:46
SweetHeartHolly
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I can only think of one artist who writes all her own stuff - Amy Macdonald
So far I believe that Taylor Swift has yet to release a song to radio that she did not write.

God bless you and her always!!!

Holly
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:49
Hav_mor91
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So far I believe that Taylor Swift has yet to release a song to radio that she did not write.

God bless you and her always!!!

Holly
Her last two singles arguably her biggest were co-written.
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Old 02-02-2013, 16:05
SweetHeartHolly
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^^^ Even if she had help, she still wrote the songs herself.

God bless you and Taylor and her co-writers always!!!

Holly
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:13
Hav_mor91
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^^^ Even if she had help, she still wrote the songs herself.

God bless you and Taylor and her co-writers always!!!

Holly
Yes but the argument is co-writers are ruining music and she is therefore part of the cycle if she chooses to co-write. I take no issue with it like you said at least she has a hand in her own music and sometimes having another person can bring something to life which could not have been as good otherwise
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:23
sjp07
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Yes but the argument is co-writers are ruining music and she is therefore part of the cycle if she chooses to co-write. I take no issue with it like you said at least she has a hand in her own music and sometimes having another person can bring something to life which could not have been as good otherwise
True. Her biggest hits were cowritten. Same with Justin Bieber. He has songs that he is the lead writer on, but the ones he usually releases as singles don't even have him in the credits. He didn't write any of his singles from Believe if I remember correctly, but he left the ones he did as album tracks. Adele wrote most of 19 by herself, but she cowrote 21 and it smashed everywhere. The opposite was true for Amy Winehouse, she co-wrote Frank and it didn't do nearly as well as Back To Black which she mostly wrote herself.
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:27
Pumpkin Soup
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I think that's a bold statement to make.

I actually think co-writers are a good thing. Artists who write their material seem to bounce off co-writers and this is how a lot of the time, concepts are born and great albums as a result.
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:52
Diceroll_81
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I Had a look at the credits for Chris Brown's 'don't wake me up' once and it had TWELVE writers listed! How does it take so many people to write 'don't wake me up' 200 hundred times in a row?

Admittedly it was Wikipedia but as far as I'm aware it's true?
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:53
Pierson
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Radio stations don't pay attention to how many songwriters are involved when playlisting songs.

Producers nowadays tend to get a songwriting credit regardless of whether they had any involvement with the lyrics so you can't really compare how things work now to how they did before.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:01
Eric_Blob
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I Had a look at the credits for Chris Brown's 'don't wake me up' once and it had TWELVE writers listed! How does it take so many people to write 'don't wake me up' 200 hundred times in a row?

Admittedly it was Wikipedia but as far as I'm aware it's true?
If you read up about that song though, it had quite a history, and I'm sure it was "revised" many times by different people along the way. It even almost ended up on Madonna's album at one point. So I believe you, I can believe it had 12 people contribute to its making.

Also, when a song samples another song, you have to credit the song-writers of the original sample. And when you sample multiple songs, it can build up to quite a lot. Also, producers get credited as writers even if they don't write any lyrics, since if you make part of the melody you get writing credits too.

I don't really care though. I can think of lots of brilliant songs with lots of co-writers and lots of awful songs written solely by the vocalist. I think saying co-writers have "ruined" music is a bit extreme.

I don't think it affects radio airplay though. Most mainstream radio stations don't care. I think the exceptions are when a song is co-written by someone famous it can help the airplay (like at the moment is Sia co-writes a song, a radio station might be more likely to play it since she writes a lot of hits at the moment, and it was the same situation with Keri Hilson 5 years ago and Ashanti 10 years ago, and for example Just Dance by Lady Gaga, part of how they made that song successful was by publicizing that Akon co-wrote it).
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:32
Elphie_Lives
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The only thing that has 'ruined' music is money. Or rather greed.

Sometimes you need someone to bounce ideas off and if they have a good line (verse)/ suggestion it could sound better then they deserve credit.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:48
performingmonk
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Co-writers are often used to give an artist the hit single they need, even if they're a good songwriter in their own right and write most of their own stuff.

KT Tunstall's 'Other Side of the World' springs to mind. Even though she has a credit on that there's no way she wrote anything other than maybe some lyrics. It's completely different to her usual writing style. It was written by Swedish writer/producer Martin Terefe.
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:22
callmediva
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As a writer myself, let me let you into a little secret as to how it all works.

Most famous artists won't touch a song that's been written for them, or passed on to them unless they get a co writing credit. This is so that they have a claim on royalties etc.
They can do this by adding or changing one word, and they have the power to do this, because if they don't get their way, they wont touch the song. At least by agreeing to have their song seen as being co written, the songwriter gets some royalties from it and gets their name known.
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Old 13-02-2013, 18:53
Scratchy7929
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It's not that co-writing is such a bad thing as such - it's the corporate structure that these relationships are set in is the problem.It's a closed shop (commercially) for the majority of talented song-writers / artists unless they have relationships with the corporate oligopolies.

To a certain extent you cannot blame the general public at large when these corporates try to shut out as much competition as possible on who gets the 'hits' & the returns they get from them (even though the outgoings may be more than the returns in some cases).
THE COMMERCIAL END OF MUSIC ISN'T AN OPEN MARKET
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Old 13-02-2013, 18:58
Scratchy7929
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As a writer myself, let me let you into a little secret as to how it all works.

Most famous artists won't touch a song that's been written for them, or passed on to them unless they get a co writing credit. This is so that they have a claim on royalties etc.
They can do this by adding or changing one word, and they have the power to do this, because if they don't get their way, they wont touch the song. At least by agreeing to have their song seen as being co written, the songwriter gets some royalties from it and gets their name known.
I have heard that one artist added a full stop ( . ) to one of lines of a song to get a co-write credit even
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Old 14-02-2013, 11:16
callmediva
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I have heard that one artist added a full stop ( . ) to one of lines of a song to get a co-write credit even
This is true
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Old 14-02-2013, 12:06
paltonz
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I have heard that one artist added a full stop ( . ) to one of lines of a song to get a co-write credit even
That is funny and sad at the same time. But, if a certain song was a comma (,) instead of a full stop (.), it might change the whole song
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