A national talk station for the UK

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 12:46

LBC has lost listeners in London with 5% of it's London audience tuning out. However due to it's popularly elsewhere in the UK LBC has had it's highest ever reach.

I don't live anywhere near London, but I am a regular listener via TuneIn radio to James Whale's drive (on my drive home in the car). I also record to time-shift The Legal Hour with Iain Dale and Steve Allen.

Online listening is up 43% and is the fastest growing way to listen to radio, and will no doubt continue when more people get 4G mobile internet.

Nothing in the Legal Hour or James Whale's show is particularly London centric, with drive mostly being national issue debate and discussion.

Is it now time to consider a national talk station on DAB and Online given the successes on LBC out of it's London area, and given the growth of digital listening?

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 12:52

Asked for a move to radio, I created it in the wrong forum by mistake.

radiodad · 02-02-2013, 13:27

It may have lost a bit in London but as I've just put in another thread it's doing really well. The figures have dropped slightly but its still recording some of its best figures ever since LBC flipped from 1152 to 97.3. Nick Ferrari is pulling in a large audience at breakfast making him Number 3 in the London Commercial market something that hasn't been done for over a decade. Steve Allen is also clearing up London with his early breakfast show now the most popular in the whole market beating Radio 4.

I expect that LBC's figures will go up on the next RAJAR following the snow we have had and also because BBC London now take Mark Forrest. Likely to rise in my opinion is Iain Dale and Anthony Davis because of people who have flicked over and like what they hear. from that Steve Allen and Nick Ferrari may also benefit from listeners who have switched that radios off at night with LBC still on the dial and then then they wake up turn it on with LBC still on and if they like what they hear they will continue to listen.

La Rhumba · 02-02-2013, 15:14

LBC did apply for the National Talk Station franchise in the 90s before Talk Radio got it. And 5Live is a National Talk station isn't it? (Okay it goes over to live Sport at times).

It does amaze me sometimes on forums when LBC is mentioned and a poster says, "I don't live in London, so I can't listen". As the OP says, apart from DAB and Online, there's the Sky channel transmissions. I know alot of listeners in Scotland, Wales, North of England, began listening to LBC in that way, as they rang the Overnight show to say so.

hanssolo · 02-02-2013, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Is it now time to consider a national talk station on DAB and Online given the successes on LBC out of it's London area, and given the growth of digital listening?

LBC has been removed from the Yorkshire MXR regional DAB mux and will be removed from other MXR regions in the summer, leaving it just on London DAB. Out of London it seems to get about 300k listeners, some of which will complain and move online or DTV.
With Talksport finding sport more appealing to listeners and advertisers, LBC could go 2 ways, 1. pickup ex Talksport general phone in listeners by going national DAB, or 2. Find going on national DAB not worth it and stay a London centred station with some out of area listeners online or Sky?

SouthCity · 02-02-2013, 17:45

It was discussed back in 2009:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/42989

The station would have been LBC (UK) on Digital 1 (and other digital platforms) with its own breakfast show and separate news & travel bulletins. The rest would have been simulcast with 97.3FM. The recession came and it never happened.

Global could reconsider it, but probably not before 27th March (the day of the Competition Commission report into the GMG acquisition).

hanssolo · 02-02-2013, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthCity

It was discussed back in 2009:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/42989

Quote:

Since September 2006, LBC has broadcast outside London on a number of regional digital radio multiplexes, covering the North East, North West, South Wales, Yorkshire and the West Midlands.

Initially, these digital relays were required by media regulator Ofcom to broadcast local news and travel. But this requirement was dropped in December – effectively giving the station the green light to expand nationally.

LBC has a weekly audience of 630,000 in London and the south-east, according to official figures from Rajar. Nationwide, its reach is 852,000

Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees?
Guess we will find out after March?

occy · 02-02-2013, 18:38

It's receiving a lot of National Press because of Thursday feature on Nick Breakfast show with " Call Clegg". There is a far bit of listeners who listen on Freeview, Sky Etc which isn't recorded for Rajar. Magic London has a good following outside the London/ South East Brough. I do listen to LBC on online when I'm away from the frequency..

SouthCity · 02-02-2013, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by occy

It's receiving a lot of National Press because of Thursday feature on Nick Breakfast show with " Call Clegg". There is a far bit of listeners who listen on Freeview, Sky Etc which isn't recorded for Rajar. Magic London has a good following outside the London/ South East Brough. I do listen to LBC on online when I'm away from the frequency..

LBC isn't on Freeview, only Sky and Virgin Media.

occy · 02-02-2013, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthCity

LBC isn't on Freeview, only Sky and Virgin Media.

Correct,

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanssolo

Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees?
Guess we will find out after March?

They would easily get over 1 million extra listeners. They are already 4/5th of the way there.

With national promotion it could be absolutely huge. They already have recognised names like James Whale, David Mellor and Nick Clegg. People will recognise Nick Ferrari from Question Time, Sky News etc. With a national campaign and only D1 extra transmission costs they could get some really large numbers in.

They have the talent and could so easily go national with the same content and presenters. However I would change the late show to be more of a call in from people on topics like UFOs, mysteries, science, people's experiences and stories, all topical as I think that could be really big and much better than the current show.

I'd leave early breakfast, breakfast, Drive and early evenings alone. They could still call it LBC, nothing would change other than it becomes a station based in the capital broadcasting to the whole of the UK.

Redunited · 02-02-2013, 18:53

FACT 12 million people live in London, only 900,000 people tune in lbc boohoo lbc.

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redunited

FACT 12 million people live in London, only 900,000 people tune in lbc boohoo lbc.

Well that's not a fact as the population of London is not 12 million.

1 in 8 listen to LBC in a market full of London and national stations.

Radio Spy · 02-02-2013, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Well that's not a fact as the population of London is not 12 million.

1 in 8 listen to LBC in a market full of London and national stations.

Actually the TSA is 11.2 million. How can 900k equate to 1 in 8 ?

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Spy

Actually the TSA is 11.2 million. How can 900k equate to 1 in 8 ?

He said 'FACT 12 million people live in London' that's not correct. Unsure of the exact TSA without looking it up. However London is a very competitive market. They do ok considering the competition. I think if they did go national on DAB they would have no problems gaining a big audience.

Radio Spy · 02-02-2013, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

He said 'FACT 12 million people live in London' that's not correct. Unsure of the exact TSA without looking it up. However London is a very competitive market.

But your statistic is about as misleading as his FACT isnt it?

How do you arrive at your figure?

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Spy

But your statistic is about as misleading as his FACT isnt it?

How do you arrive at your figure?

Divided the population of London by the 900,000 figure. The TSA is bigger, so it's not right as you point out.

However LBC still does well given the choice in London.

cornwalldanny · 02-02-2013, 20:22

I think it would be great if we got a national talk radio station. Its no wonder LBC has lost listeners as I used to listen on DAB until it got cut off. I haven't had my DAB on since and I need a new one. I might get a DAB in the future if we do see more talk related stations like LBC.

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 20:26

I bet there would be such a warm reception for a national station with the likes of the LBC shows on it. No pun intended.

Bandspread199 · 02-02-2013, 20:43

Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national.

Thine Wonk · 02-02-2013, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandspread199

Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national.

Thing is, as I said in the opening thread. Most of the content is already national. There is some London stuff and they could continue to do London traffic and news, with mention of other national issues too. In fact there's no reason why there could be a news and travel split for London / UK.

Sid Law · 03-02-2013, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Rhumba

L And 5Live is a National Talk station isn't it? (Okay it goes over to live Sport at times).
.

And during the day when they are not doing live sport, they are talking and speculating and repeating ad-naseum details of sport that has already happened or will happen.

Their by-line is "news and sport from the BBC". It should really be "sport and chat about sport and speculation about sport and tittle-tattle about sporting heros/sporting personalities (both oxymorons) and sometimes news but only when it doesn't clash with the sport"

I have no issue with the remit of Radio 5live - news and sport - but far too much of the daytime output it is sport based news, not real news.

Martin Phillp · 03-02-2013, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandspread199

Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national.

It did until the sale to Crown Communications in the late 80s. From 96 to the mid noughties, it didn't mean anything at all and was used as a heritage brand after it relaunched in 96.

Chrysalis under David Lloyd brought in the London's Biggest Conversation tagline which is still used to this day.

richie wild · 03-02-2013, 17:58

Nothing needs to change to the programming or name if it went on D1, as the 383,000 current listeners clearly don't give a toss about the London-centricity. I certainly don't, and even watch London Tonight sometimes to gain a visual aspect to some stories carried in the day. It's a London station... so what? I listen to Gold, which is a feed from London and Global have just nationalised Kiss, which is a London station.

Leave LBC as it is, and get it on D1 soon please, Global (oh, at 64k so it doesn't sound like AM)

Cheers!

dpb · 03-02-2013, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanssolo

Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees?
Guess we will find out after March?

It has 159,000 listeners outside of London.

The 902,000 you refer to is just 97.3. You need to take away the total London figures which are "LBC (ILR)" from "LBC (UK)" to get the out of London figures.

02-02-2013, 12:46	#1
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	A national talk station for the UK LBC has lost listeners in London with 5% of it's London audience tuning out. However due to it's popularly elsewhere in the UK LBC has had it's highest ever reach. I don't live anywhere near London, but I am a regular listener via TuneIn radio to James Whale's drive (on my drive home in the car). I also record to time-shift The Legal Hour with Iain Dale and Steve Allen. Online listening is up 43% and is the fastest growing way to listen to radio, and will no doubt continue when more people get 4G mobile internet. Nothing in the Legal Hour or James Whale's show is particularly London centric, with drive mostly being national issue debate and discussion. Is it now time to consider a national talk station on DAB and Online given the successes on LBC out of it's London area, and given the growth of digital listening?

02-02-2013, 12:52	#2
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Asked for a move to radio, I created it in the wrong forum by mistake.

02-02-2013, 13:27	#3
radiodad Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,993	It may have lost a bit in London but as I've just put in another thread it's doing really well. The figures have dropped slightly but its still recording some of its best figures ever since LBC flipped from 1152 to 97.3. Nick Ferrari is pulling in a large audience at breakfast making him Number 3 in the London Commercial market something that hasn't been done for over a decade. Steve Allen is also clearing up London with his early breakfast show now the most popular in the whole market beating Radio 4. I expect that LBC's figures will go up on the next RAJAR following the snow we have had and also because BBC London now take Mark Forrest. Likely to rise in my opinion is Iain Dale and Anthony Davis because of people who have flicked over and like what they hear. from that Steve Allen and Nick Ferrari may also benefit from listeners who have switched that radios off at night with LBC still on the dial and then then they wake up turn it on with LBC still on and if they like what they hear they will continue to listen.

02-02-2013, 15:14	#4
La Rhumba Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 10,468	LBC did apply for the National Talk Station franchise in the 90s before Talk Radio got it. And 5Live is a National Talk station isn't it? (Okay it goes over to live Sport at times). It does amaze me sometimes on forums when LBC is mentioned and a poster says, "I don't live in London, so I can't listen". As the OP says, apart from DAB and Online, there's the Sky channel transmissions. I know alot of listeners in Scotland, Wales, North of England, began listening to LBC in that way, as they rang the Overnight show to say so.

02-02-2013, 17:29	#5
hanssolo Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 13,576	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Is it now time to consider a national talk station on DAB and Online given the successes on LBC out of it's London area, and given the growth of digital listening? LBC has been removed from the Yorkshire MXR regional DAB mux and will be removed from other MXR regions in the summer, leaving it just on London DAB. Out of London it seems to get about 300k listeners, some of which will complain and move online or DTV. With Talksport finding sport more appealing to listeners and advertisers, LBC could go 2 ways, 1. pickup ex Talksport general phone in listeners by going national DAB, or 2. Find going on national DAB not worth it and stay a London centred station with some out of area listeners online or Sky?

02-02-2013, 17:45	#6
SouthCity Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 4,475	It was discussed back in 2009: http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/42989 The station would have been LBC (UK) on Digital 1 (and other digital platforms) with its own breakfast show and separate news & travel bulletins. The rest would have been simulcast with 97.3FM. The recession came and it never happened. Global could reconsider it, but probably not before 27th March (the day of the Competition Commission report into the GMG acquisition).

02-02-2013, 17:56	#7
hanssolo Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 13,576	Quote: Originally Posted by SouthCity It was discussed back in 2009: http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/42989 Quote: Since September 2006, LBC has broadcast outside London on a number of regional digital radio multiplexes, covering the North East, North West, South Wales, Yorkshire and the West Midlands. Initially, these digital relays were required by media regulator Ofcom to broadcast local news and travel. But this requirement was dropped in December – effectively giving the station the green light to expand nationally. LBC has a weekly audience of 630,000 in London and the south-east, according to official figures from Rajar. Nationwide, its reach is 852,000 Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees? Guess we will find out after March?

02-02-2013, 18:38	#8
occy Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sussex Posts: 25,535	It's receiving a lot of National Press because of Thursday feature on Nick Breakfast show with " Call Clegg". There is a far bit of listeners who listen on Freeview, Sky Etc which isn't recorded for Rajar. Magic London has a good following outside the London/ South East Brough. I do listen to LBC on online when I'm away from the frequency..

02-02-2013, 18:40	#9
SouthCity Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 4,475	Quote: Originally Posted by occy It's receiving a lot of National Press because of Thursday feature on Nick Breakfast show with " Call Clegg". There is a far bit of listeners who listen on Freeview, Sky Etc which isn't recorded for Rajar. Magic London has a good following outside the London/ South East Brough. I do listen to LBC on online when I'm away from the frequency.. LBC isn't on Freeview, only Sky and Virgin Media.

02-02-2013, 18:45	#10
occy Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sussex Posts: 25,535	Quote: Originally Posted by SouthCity LBC isn't on Freeview, only Sky and Virgin Media. Correct,

02-02-2013, 18:52	#11
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by hanssolo Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees? Guess we will find out after March? They would easily get over 1 million extra listeners. They are already 4/5th of the way there. With national promotion it could be absolutely huge. They already have recognised names like James Whale, David Mellor and Nick Clegg. People will recognise Nick Ferrari from Question Time, Sky News etc. With a national campaign and only D1 extra transmission costs they could get some really large numbers in. They have the talent and could so easily go national with the same content and presenters. However I would change the late show to be more of a call in from people on topics like UFOs, mysteries, science, people's experiences and stories, all topical as I think that could be really big and much better than the current show. I'd leave early breakfast, breakfast, Drive and early evenings alone. They could still call it LBC, nothing would change other than it becomes a station based in the capital broadcasting to the whole of the UK.

02-02-2013, 18:53	#12
Redunited Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: London Posts: 1,066	FACT 12 million people live in London, only 900,000 people tune in lbc boohoo lbc.

02-02-2013, 18:55	#13
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by Redunited FACT 12 million people live in London, only 900,000 people tune in lbc boohoo lbc. Well that's not a fact as the population of London is not 12 million. 1 in 8 listen to LBC in a market full of London and national stations.

02-02-2013, 19:08	#14
Radio Spy Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 239	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Well that's not a fact as the population of London is not 12 million. 1 in 8 listen to LBC in a market full of London and national stations. Actually the TSA is 11.2 million. How can 900k equate to 1 in 8 ?

02-02-2013, 19:25	#15
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by Radio Spy Actually the TSA is 11.2 million. How can 900k equate to 1 in 8 ? He said 'FACT 12 million people live in London' that's not correct. Unsure of the exact TSA without looking it up. However London is a very competitive market. They do ok considering the competition. I think if they did go national on DAB they would have no problems gaining a big audience.

02-02-2013, 19:29	#16
Radio Spy Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 239	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk He said 'FACT 12 million people live in London' that's not correct. Unsure of the exact TSA without looking it up. However London is a very competitive market. But your statistic is about as misleading as his FACT isnt it? How do you arrive at your figure?

02-02-2013, 20:01	#17
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by Radio Spy But your statistic is about as misleading as his FACT isnt it? How do you arrive at your figure? Divided the population of London by the 900,000 figure. The TSA is bigger, so it's not right as you point out. However LBC still does well given the choice in London.

02-02-2013, 20:22	#18
cornwalldanny Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 227	I think it would be great if we got a national talk radio station. Its no wonder LBC has lost listeners as I used to listen on DAB until it got cut off. I haven't had my DAB on since and I need a new one. I might get a DAB in the future if we do see more talk related stations like LBC.

02-02-2013, 20:26	#19
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	I bet there would be such a warm reception for a national station with the likes of the LBC shows on it. No pun intended.

02-02-2013, 20:43	#20
Bandspread199 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Scotland east Posts: 2,845	Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national.

02-02-2013, 20:54	#21
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by Bandspread199 Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national. Thing is, as I said in the opening thread. Most of the content is already national. There is some London stuff and they could continue to do London traffic and news, with mention of other national issues too. In fact there's no reason why there could be a news and travel split for London / UK.

DS Forums

A national talk station for the UK

03-02-2013, 17:03	#22
Sid Law Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: East Perthshire Posts: 1,599	Quote: Originally Posted by La Rhumba L And 5Live is a National Talk station isn't it? (Okay it goes over to live Sport at times). . And during the day when they are not doing live sport, they are talking and speculating and repeating ad-naseum details of sport that has already happened or will happen. Their by-line is "news and sport from the BBC". It should really be "sport and chat about sport and speculation about sport and tittle-tattle about sporting heros/sporting personalities (both oxymorons) and sometimes news but only when it doesn't clash with the sport" I have no issue with the remit of Radio 5live - news and sport - but far too much of the daytime output it is sport based news, not real news.

03-02-2013, 17:33	#23
Martin Phillp Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London Posts: 20,282	Quote: Originally Posted by Bandspread199 Doesn't LBC stand for LONDON Broadcasting Company, the first ILR station to come on air, and therefore licensed to broadcast London orientated material for it's TSA. The fact that it can be heard in other locations is fine, until they try to drop their remit and go national. It did until the sale to Crown Communications in the late 80s. From 96 to the mid noughties, it didn't mean anything at all and was used as a heritage brand after it relaunched in 96. Chrysalis under David Lloyd brought in the London's Biggest Conversation tagline which is still used to this day.

03-02-2013, 17:58	#24
richie wild Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: wirral Posts: 9,276	Nothing needs to change to the programming or name if it went on D1, as the 383,000 current listeners clearly don't give a toss about the London-centricity. I certainly don't, and even watch London Tonight sometimes to gain a visual aspect to some stories carried in the day. It's a London station... so what? I listen to Gold, which is a feed from London and Global have just nationalised Kiss, which is a London station. Leave LBC as it is, and get it on D1 soon please, Global (oh, at 64k so it doesn't sound like AM) Cheers!

03-02-2013, 18:17	#25
dpb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9,867	Quote: Originally Posted by hanssolo Interestingly since 2009 the LBC audience has increased to 1.283,000 nationallly with 902,000 in London,, but is the 383,000 listeners outside of London worth going on D1, where it may need over 1 million extra listeners to make enough on extra advertising to pay for the extra D1 transmission fees? Guess we will find out after March? It has 159,000 listeners outside of London. The 902,000 you refer to is just 97.3. You need to take away the total London figures which are "LBC (ILR)" from "LBC (UK)" to get the out of London figures.