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BT Sports Channel
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mlt11
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by gs1:
“I can only guess that Sky's rationale is to provide some free football to non-Sky Sports customers, designed to dissuade subscribers (perhaps even non-subscribers with a viewing card) who would be happy with a "lite" offering of sport from buying BT Sport or switching their broadband (and telephone) to BT.

I have doubts that Football League is a strong enough proposition to dissuade many such consumers from experiencing a taste of live Premier League action.

Sky have had a habit of late, of re-positioning content/services (Sky Go/Extra, Entertainment Extra +/box sets, F1 HD etc.), so if there is any hint of temporary, rather than the promise of a regular weekly game throughout the season, then I think customers will take that in to account.”

I don't see the move of "free FL" being a move of any real substance - I think it's only a bit of a gimmick (assuming it happens) - it's not going to have any significant effect.

Originally Posted by gs1:
“I've never for a moment thought that Sky were unfazed, despite some of the dismissive comments attributed to them in the media. Nor should they be, as comparing the risk BT pose to their business with Setanta UK or ESPN UK would be rash in the extreme, in my opinion.

The thing I note to date about Sky's response is limited-time offers rather than downward movement in the tariffs, designed in my opinion, to keep prices moving in an upward direction overall.

In other words, a strategy that could allow them to quickly withdraw marketing offers and return customers to higher prices when they believe the competitive climate is right for them.”

Arguably Sky's pricing moves so far indicate they don't actually feel the need to do that much on price.

If there was a substantial move of people from Sky broadband to BT broadband I would expect more of a pricing response from Sky than we have seen (so far!).
gs1
22-06-2013
It seems to me from the Mail article that Sky are thinking primarily about the Saturday lunchtime slot/ where BT have a live Premier League match; and the follow-on to this, is whether they plan to extend it to commercial premises where BT are also challenging Sky?

Quote:
“This is understood to include broadcasting to the widest possible audience the Football League matches that are going to be scheduled to clash with BT’s 12.45pm Saturday Premier League kick-offs.”

Another question in my mind, is whether they plan to make a feature of it throughout the season, or if they are simply planning to show a handful of games to a wider audience to disrupt BT's initial challenge?
VisionMan1
22-06-2013
Could these "free" games be on Freeview as well as Freesat?
mlt11
22-06-2013
Notice the FL pick of Leeds v Sheff Weds for Sat 17 Aug - ie opening PL day - I would expect Sky to make the Sat 12.15pm FL game as heavyweight as possible at least for the first few weeks.
Redunited
22-06-2013
Free nothing's free.
coventrywooo
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by VisionMan1:
“Could these "free" games be on Freeview as well as Freesat?”

i hate saying this if they do it could only be Pick TV...
Redunited
22-06-2013
Don't think it will be on Freeview, also you might need their basic package the £25 one.
RadioKnower
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by coventrywooo:
“i hate saying this if they do it could only be Pick TV...”

Unless they're allowed to sell the rights on to Channel 5 or the BBC.
VisionMan1
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by coventrywooo:
“i hate saying this if they do it could only be Pick TV...”

Ah. Gotcha.
Ian Cleverly
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by Redunited:
“Free nothing's free.”

Are you saying that Janet Jackson (& Ultra Naté) lied to us through song?
gs1
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“I don't see the move of "free FL" being a move of any real substance - I think it's only a bit of a gimmick (assuming it happens) - it's not going to have any significant effect.”

I'm inclined to agree. I also think that it will be of limited benefit if that's what it is.

In my view, deliberate "spoiling tactics" are often perceived badly by consumers, so I think that a temporary gimmick could be counter-productive.

I'd say to Sky, if you want to demonstrate that you value your customers, then give them something that they can look forward to all season- e.g a Saturday lunchtime live match- rather than "cut their viewing" at your convenience.

Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Arguably Sky's pricing moves so far indicate they don't actually feel the need to do that much on price.

If there was a substantial move of people from Sky broadband to BT broadband I would expect more of a pricing response from Sky than we have seen (so far!).”

Yes, I'd agree, although I think only careful analysis of quarterly results will give a real clue, as Sky's approach has always tended to be to address competitive issues/churn through retention discounts, which are less visible, rather than widespread published price changes.

Most providers, including Sky, seem to be working especially hard, as well, to get customers locked in to contracts to restrict their movement!

Sky's "difficulties" have regularly tended to be less drastic than some have predicted. I'm interested by the argument of Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BoAML) though, that Sky is vulnerable to a "small change to subscribers and revenues having a 'disproportionate' impact on profits" due to the "fixed cost" nature of its business.
http://connectedconsumer.mediatel.co...ports-offering
Gordie10
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Notice the FL pick of Leeds v Sheff Weds for Sat 17 Aug - ie opening PL day - I would expect Sky to make the Sat 12.15pm FL game as heavyweight as possible at least for the first few weeks.”

What? So they won't show my home town (*pointing at my location on the left of screen*) in action for months in their first ever season at Championship level? Disgraceful.
Redunited
22-06-2013
No fact nothing is free.
Gordie10
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by Redunited:
“No fact nothing is free.”

... except on cashback sites.
mlt11
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by Gordie10:
“What? So they won't show my home town (*pointing at my location on the left of screen*) in action for months in their first ever season at Championship level? Disgraceful. ”

No, they may well show your team!

Not all Sky FL games are Sat 12.15pm - they will also have a lot of Fri night (and also a few Mon night).

What I think is that they'll make the Sat 12.15pm ones as heavyweight as possible - at least early in the PL season.
mlt11
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by gs1:
“Sky's "difficulties" have regularly tended to be less drastic than some have predicted. I'm interested by the argument of Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BoAML) though, that Sky is vulnerable to a "small change to subscribers and revenues having a 'disproportionate' impact on profits" due to the "fixed cost" nature of its business.
http://connectedconsumer.mediatel.co...ports-offering”

It's an interesting one - a lot of their costs are fixed but a lot aren't.

Total sports rights costs are quite a bit under 20% of revenues.

They've recently done pretty well holding down other costs - non-programming costs as % of revenue have fallen quite a bit - cheaper boxes, making HD box standard so HD upgrades cost nothing, more efficient customer service etc. There's quite a lot of variable cost linked to new customers.

So I think there are lots of ups and downs for them - it'll be interesting to see how it all feeds through to the bottom line.
VisionMan1
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by gs1:
“I'm inclined to agree. I also think that it will be of limited benefit if that's what it is.

In my view, deliberate "spoiling tactics" are often perceived badly by consumers, so I think that a temporary gimmick could be counter-productive.

I'd say to Sky, if you want to demonstrate that you value your customers, then give them something that they can look forward to all season- e.g a Saturday lunchtime live match- rather than "cut their viewing" at your convenience.”

When asked about BT Sport, Sky made a mistake in my opinion, by saying "It's a gimmick", when in fact it has been generally acknowledged as being a very clever commercial strategy to gain new triple play customers.

And now, if true, what Sky are about to offer is, in truth, only an anti-BT gimmick. And as such may not reflect well on them, when you consider the point you made, in regard to the curtailing of packages combined with an overall price rise.
muppetman11
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by VisionMan1:
“But if their reacting like this to the new BT Sport channel, their going to absolutely brick themselves when the full services on YouView launch”

Rest assured their taking the competition serious I can say that with 100% conviction , I'm sure Sky+HD will continue to be improved , Youview has great potential as you know I have one likewise TIVO from VM is also a great competing STB so it looks like interesting times ahead for pay TV customers.
derek500
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by VisionMan1:
“When asked about BT Sport, Sky made a mistake in my opinion, by saying "It's a gimmick", when in fact it has been generally acknowledged as being a very clever commercial strategy to gain new triple play customers.”

Just to put the 'gimmick' quote in its full context.

Quote:
“Stephen van Rooyen, managing director of sales & marketing for Sky said: “For us, sport isn’t a marketing gimmick to promote another product. We’re long-term supporters and our sustained investment has benefited sports fans and British sport at all levels.”

“This is all about broadband and BT’s latest attempt to stem the flow of customers who’ve switched in their millions to rivals like Sky over the last few years. BT Sport is not ‘free’ and customers are smart enough to realise they’ll pay for it through more expensive broadband and phone services.

“Even after today’s announcement, the vast majority of Sky Broadband customers would pay more than £110 a year extra for the equivalent service from BT. Our approach is to offer customers high-quality broadband at great value with the best customer service. That’s why customers have made us the UK’s fastest growing broadband provider,” he added.”

http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/b...054796.article
D.M.N.
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by D.M.N.:
“Looking at SPI by the way, it appears that the opening batch of seven games will all be on Sky Sports 1 - ie no moves to 3 or 4 to potentially annoy BT:

Fri, Aug 2: Sheffield United v Notts County (7.45pm) in League 1 * --> 19:00 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Sat, Aug 3: Burnley v Bolton (12.15pm) in Championship * --> 12:00 to 14:30 - Sky Sports 1
Sun, Aug 4: Derby v Blackburn (4pm) in Championship * --> 15:30 to 18:30 - Sky Sports 1
Mon, Aug 5: Preston v Blackpool (7.45pm) in Capital One Cup --> 19:30 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Tue, Aug 6: Morecambe v Wolves (7.45pm) in Capital One Cup --> 19:30 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Sat, Aug 10: Accrington v Portsmouth (12.15pm) in League 2 --> 12:00 to 14:30 - Sky Sports 1
Sun, Aug 11: Leicester v Leeds (4.30pm) in Championship --> 16:00 to 18:30 - Sky Sports 1”

I should note - SPI does not confirm this, but the 'slot sizes' for SS1 are convenient for the football to easily slot into these slots.
Sirius
22-06-2013
I know I'm a bit late but I don't see Sky going for the option of unencrypting for the duration of the game. It's technically possible of course, but then they have to raise awareness of the fact this is going to happen by mentioning it in ads or on SSN.

Simulcasting on Sky 1 is easier to promote and it leaves it there in the EPG with people clearly understanding if it is available to them. While it would put the games on Virgin I don't think Sky perceive them as much of a threat in any case at the minute.
VisionMan1
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by muppetman11:
“Rest assured their taking the competition serious I can say that with 100% conviction , I'm sure Sky+HD will continue to be improved , Youview has great potential as you know I have one likewise TIVO from VM is also a great competing STB so it looks like interesting times ahead for pay TV customers.”

And thats exactly what I'm talking about. Its all only about choice. And discounts for the consumer too.

And when YouView fully launches all its new services, it will offer a wide range of consumers a very viable option of a cheap entry point into the subscription TV market. And all only on a month to month contract too. Which is a very attractive pay model compared to the big two.

But it's important for BT to get Sky Sports on there, to attract new custom from sports/football subscribers. Numbers of such are only small on BT Vision (approx 20%), but the take up rate could be much higher on YouView .
Brekkie
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by D.M.N.:
“Looking at SPI by the way, it appears that the opening batch of seven games will all be on Sky Sports 1 - ie no moves to 3 or 4 to potentially annoy BT:

Fri, Aug 2: Sheffield United v Notts County (7.45pm) in League 1 * --> 19:00 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Sat, Aug 3: Burnley v Bolton (12.15pm) in Championship * --> 12:00 to 14:30 - Sky Sports 1
Sun, Aug 4: Derby v Blackburn (4pm) in Championship * --> 15:30 to 18:30 - Sky Sports 1
Mon, Aug 5: Preston v Blackpool (7.45pm) in Capital One Cup --> 19:30 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Tue, Aug 6: Morecambe v Wolves (7.45pm) in Capital One Cup --> 19:30 to 22:00 - Sky Sports 1
Sat, Aug 10: Accrington v Portsmouth (12.15pm) in League 2 --> 12:00 to 14:30 - Sky Sports 1
Sun, Aug 11: Leicester v Leeds (4.30pm) in Championship --> 16:00 to 18:30 - Sky Sports 1”

Interesting the Saturday games get a 12.15pm start - obviously wanting to have Soccer Saturday start by 2.30pm and also get a head start on BT, hoping I guess subscribers to both will watch the first half hour (rather than the BT pre-match stuff) and then stick with the game if it's interesting enough.
mlt11
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by Brekkie:
“Interesting the Saturday games get a 12.15pm start - obviously wanting to have Soccer Saturday start by 2.30pm and also get a head start on BT, hoping I guess subscribers to both will watch the first half hour (rather than the BT pre-match stuff) and then stick with the game if it's interesting enough.”

Soccer Saturday hasn't been on SS1 in recent seasons so it's unlikely Soccer Saturday is an issue.

It has only been on SSN and it has started at 12 noon.
Gordie10
22-06-2013
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Soccer Saturday hasn't been on SS1 in recent seasons so it's unlikely Soccer Saturday is an issue.

It has only been on SSN and it has started at 12 noon.”

I think I read on here that they're using Soccer Saturday as a lead-in to their live 5:30pm Premier League games though, so that would mean a return to Sky Sports 1. It could still start at noon on Sky Sports News though, before starting at 2:30pm on Sky Sports 1 as well, as of course it used to do, back in the day.
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