[LaVieEnRose]

Inspired by some comments on another thread.

"Pop" music was originally short for "popular music", which I would interpret as being anything outside classical music. I would assume that "popular" in this case was being used in its original sense of "for the people", so it was a rather snobbish term. Music for the plebs who aren't refined enough to appreciate the classical composers.

I think that while "popular music" has become a valid and less disparaging term for non-classical music, the term "pop music" is now more specific and refers to a particular type of song.

What do you think?

[Eric_Blob]

Yes, I consider "pop" as a genre of music, I always have. At the moment, the sub-genres of pop that are most popular are electropop and dance-pop.

[elasticlove]

Originally Posted by Eric_Blob

Yes, I consider "pop" as a genre of music, I always have. At the moment, the sub-genres of pop that are most popular are electropop and dance-pop.

I agree.

[toanythingtaboo]

A music genre is a conventional category that identifies pieces of music as belonging to a shared tradition or set of conventions.

I'd say "pop" qualifies.

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

Inspired by some comments on another thread.

"Pop" music was originally short for "popular music", which I would interpret as being anything outside classical music. I would assume that "popular" in this case was being used in its original sense of "for the people", so it was a rather snobbish term. Music for the plebs who aren't refined enough to appreciate the classical composers.

I think that while "popular music" has become a valid and less disparaging term for non-classical music, the term "pop music" is now more specific and refers to a particular type of song.

What do you think?

you are right. im old enough to remember the 60's, and the term pop music (short for popular as you say) refered to all the music found in the charts. the 3 minute ditty aimed at the youth of the day.

so by its original definition, all chart music is pop.

the split, or confusion came in in the late 80's, when watermans hit factory (s/a/w) popularised manufactured music and called that pop. there other styles that were popular in the charts in those times, indie, hip hop, rock, etc , but the fans of that style of pop wanted to distance themselves from watermans manufactured tripe... quite reasonably so too... i believe that thats when there was a split from pop meaning every chart style track, to becoming to mean a style of music... ie simplistic, nonsense.

to be fair, waterman refered to his style of pop as 'pure pop'... but the word 'pure' seems to have been dropped now, and the younger generations have kept the split between (pure) pop and other chart styles.

who is right?... tbh i dont think there is a definitive answer. its quite reasonable for the younger generation to want to distinguish betweemn pop, hip hop, indie, dance, etc.. but those of us who grew up with all chart material being refered to as pop have an equal point. we cannot re-write history.

Originally Posted by Eric_Blob

Yes, I consider "pop" as a genre of music, I always have. .

thats because youre young and grew up with manufactured music as the norm!

[mmeister2]

I think "pop" music was originally just short for "popular" (as someone else has mentioned) but as time has gone on it evolved into it's own specific genre.

I consider it to be it's own genre of music. I wouldn't really know how else to label the likes of Britney Spears or Katy Perry, as they don't fit neatly into anything other than what I consider pop.

[LaVieEnRose]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

the split, or confusion came in in the late 80's, when watermans hit factory (s/a/w) popularised manufactured music and called that pop. there other styles that were popular in the charts in those times, indie, hip hop, rock, etc, but the fans of that style of pop wanted to distance themselves from watermans manufactured tripe... quite reasonably so too... i believe that thats when there was a split from pop meaning every chart style track, to becoming to mean a style of music... ie simplistic, nonsense.

its quite reasonable for the younger generation to want to distinguish between pop, hip hop, indie, dance, etc.. but those of us who grew up with all chart material being refered to as pop have an equal point. we cannot re-write history.

I think you are right up to a point, but as teenagers in the 70s we were outraged when anyone referred to the likes of Led Zeppelin, Yes, Genesis etc as "pop"

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

I think you are right up to a point, but as teenagers in the 70s we were outraged when anyone referred to the likes of Led Zeppelin, Yes, Genesis etc as "pop"

true, but they didnt chart (much) in the singles chart!

actually by then it was called 'rock and pop'...

[LaVieEnRose]

I wouldn't use the charts as a definition though. A song can still be a "pop" song if it hasn't been in the charts. (What does that even mean now? There are so many different "charts" knocking around)

[mgvsmith]

Originally Posted by Eric_Blob

Yes, I consider "pop" as a genre of music, I always have. At the moment, the sub-genres of pop that are most popular are electropop and dance-pop.

I'm not sure what the shared traditions or set of conventions are that define pop as a genre?

Apart from being popular what would they be?

Pop is actually very hard to define as a genre.

[Arcana]

I regard it as a meta-genre alongside rock, folk, country, jazz, electronic etc.

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

I wouldn't use the charts as a definition though. A song can still be a "pop" song if it hasn't been in the charts. (What does that even mean now? There are so many different "charts" knocking around)

the charts are the physical manifestation of a tracks popularity, no they arent part of the definition as you say, a track doesnt have to chart to be pop.

[Scratchy7929]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

I wouldn't use the charts as a definition though. A song can still be a "pop" song if it hasn't been in the charts. (What does that even mean now? There are so many different "charts" knocking around)

Think that's generally called 'underground pop' by the 'music commentators' for the last decade or two, although a misnomer of a term really.

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

waterman refered to his style of pop as 'pure pop'...

Wasn't it called 'bubblegum pop' in the early '70's - a very cheesified version of pop.It's popularity (some a more contempory version of it, alot of retro-bubblegum pop about as well, though) seems to have increased again with the younger demographic & perhaps some of the 'original' bubblegum pop lovers

Pop music Characteristics

Don't think pop is a genre really.It's more multi-genre that fits into a specific format.The most popular pop genre (at that particular time), usually get's the mantle of generally being regarded as pop.Pop has often been redefined virtually over-night at times though (as long as it fits into the that charactoristic format).

[Scratchy7929]

Power pop is often regardeded as 'pure pop' - good example The Knack - My Sharona.Don't think many would regard that as pure pop these days though.

[rfonzo]

Pop is really a shortened term for 'popular music'. But there are
various genres that fit into the pop charts such as r n b, hip hop and rock. You would not consider Oasis to be the same type of artist as Britney Spears but yet they have had hits that have topped the 'pop charts.' Indeed, Oasis would consider themselves as artists that are rock and roll musicians. In conclusion, i would say that pop is a broadened and perhaps even loose term to describe contemporary music.

[CLL Dodge]

More so than "classical" which encompasses a thousand years of genres.

[mgvsmith]

Originally Posted by CLL Dodge

More so than "classical" which encompasses a thousand years of genres.

I think you may be confusing style and form with genre in that case. Classical music is really only about 400 years old if you date it from the Baroque period.

As I said before pop music does not fit easily into a genre. Maybe we should stop using such a weak category as the pop music genre? It really means very little.

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by Scratchy7929

Wasn't it called 'bubblegum pop' in the early '70's - a very cheesified version of pop.It's popularity (some a more contempory version of it, alot of retro-bubblegum pop about as well, though) seems to have increased again with the younger demographic & perhaps some of the 'original' bubblegum pop lovers



Don't think pop is a genre really.It's more multi-genre that fits into a specific format.The most popular pop genre (at that particular time), usually get's the mantle of generally being regarded as pop.Pop has often been redefined virtually over-night at times though (as long as it fits into the that charactoristic format).

well i can only comment on my experience, being 13 in 1970. nope! lol, we didnt call it bubblegum pop, it was just pop, or glam.

until recently bubblegum refered to a specific style generated in new york in the late 60's by kastenetz - katz. they had a mini hit factory with acts like 1910 fruitgum co, ohio express, lemon pipers, all of which charted in 68. in 69 there was the archies 'sugar sugar', but by 70 i didnt hear the term bubblegum being refered to to anything contemporary until recently when the young yet again are re-defining old terms.... wrongly!

Originally Posted by Scratchy7929

Power pop is often regardeded as 'pure pop' - good example The Knack - My Sharona.Don't think many would regard that as pure pop these days though.

never considered that as such... we called 'my sharona' as new wave.

[CLL Dodge]

Originally Posted by mgvsmith

I think you may be confusing style and form with genre in that case. Classical music is really only about 400 years old if you date it from the Baroque period.

But you'll find Hildegard von Bingen classified as "classical" in record stores (if there are any left).

[Fast Fuse]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

never considered that as such... we called 'my sharona' as new wave.

Used to love that song. Sounds funny calling it 'new' wave now!

Some would call it 'post punk' but I don't recall it being called that at the time.

[LaVieEnRose]

Originally Posted by rfonzo

Pop is really a shortened term for 'popular music'. But there are
various genres that fit into the pop charts such as r n b, hip hop and rock. You would not consider Oasis to be the same type of artist as Britney Spears but yet they have had hits that have topped the 'pop charts.' Indeed, Oasis would consider themselves as artists that are rock and roll musicians. In conclusion, i would say that pop is a broadened and perhaps even loose term to describe contemporary music.

Hmmmm. I think you only read the thread title. Why not read all the posts, there's an interesting discussion going on.

[rfonzo]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

Hmmmm. I think you only read the thread title. Why not read all the posts, there's an interesting discussion going on.

There is an interesting discussion going on but that is my opinion of the question.

[LaVieEnRose]

Originally Posted by rfonzo

There is an interesting discussion going on but that is my opinion of the question.

What you said seems to suggest that you think pop is merely an umbrella term to describe all contemporary music.

[rfonzo]

Originally Posted by LaVieEnRose

What you said seems to suggest that you think pop is merely an umbrella term to describe all contemporary music.

Pop music as you have already said alters according to it's era. For example, the Brit Pop era in the mid nineties is popular music but it's roots perhaps lay in rock and roll.

[LaVieEnRose]

Originally Posted by rfonzo

Pop music as you have already said alters according to it's era. .

No, I didn't say that, and I disagree with that statement. I don't think you have read my posts with any attention.