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Richard lll : The King in the Carpark C4 Monday


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Old 06-02-2013, 12:57
Hestia
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And pretty much acquitted on the same basis that Ms Langley absolved Richard from guilt.

Perhaps we should bring brack phrenology.
That's me done for, then. Two strange ridges in my skull that no-one can explain. I think my mum was abducted by aliens, but she denies it.

Anyhow.... back on to the topic in question.....
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:03
SaddlerSteve
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One of many real mysteries which the documentary ignored in favour of endless obviously staged emoting from the estimable Phillipa. If the body was only 5 feet or so down, with the toings and froings on the site over 500 years, it is quite incredible that only the feet apparently got disturbed/dug up over that time.

Pure conjecture on my part, but the apparent lack of disturbance of the body suggests at least in the period from the demolition of the monastery (usually the wood and stones would be recycled in other building work) to the large scale development of the neighbourhood in Victorian times, the grave was part of the garden of a substantial house - suggests to me that the grave was known to be there and left alone as such. How that knowledge got lost is a mystery for the ages, I suppose.

As to the two major developments as described in the wikipedia entry on Grey Friars, the 19th century development and particularly the 1930s building of the then County Council offices, I can only think it was dumb luck or very shallow foundations!
It was part of a garden in the 1600's which had a pillar above the location of Richards grave.
This is the reason they were looking for the location of Greyfriars in the first place.

I remember reading this back last year so just searched for a link:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...g-8117515.html

And it's mentioned in Leicester Universitys timeline:

http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/greyfriars/timeline
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:40
Phoenix04
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I still think this should have been presented by Tony Robinson. After all, it was his ancestor that originally buried the body
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Old 06-02-2013, 14:28
SueG
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Here are a couple of links about how Richard III spoke - the second is a podcast from the University of Leicester:-

http://news.yahoo.com/king-richard-i...195452558.html

https://soundcloud.com/university-of-leicester
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Old 06-02-2013, 14:59
Englishspinner
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It was part of a garden in the 1600's which had a pillar above the location of Richards grave.
This is the reason they were looking for the location of Greyfriars in the first place.

I remember reading this back last year so just searched for a link:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...g-8117515.html...
Brilliant. The Indie article makes Philippa and the RIII Society sound quite measured and sensible, before the hype took over.
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Old 06-02-2013, 15:17
curmy
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It was part of a garden in the 1600's which had a pillar above the location of Richards grave.
This is the reason they were looking for the location of Greyfriars in the first place.

I remember reading this back last year so just searched for a link:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...g-8117515.html

And it's mentioned in Leicester Universitys timeline:

http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/greyfriars/timeline
Thanks that's interesting.

I wonder if Philippa's going to nick Richard's reconstructed head & keep it in her bedroom at home
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Old 06-02-2013, 15:25
BouncyCastle
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The King In The Car Park - sounds like the title of an episode of Bones.
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Old 06-02-2013, 16:36
mathsbunny
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I found the programme fascinating. Especially after sitting through 20 years of Time Team

I do think it unfortunate that he has to be re-interred in Leicester.

It is not proven that he was a child killer and a despot. Indeed others around at the time had just as much to lose if the Princes were alive-step forward Tudors.

At the end of the day,he was King, and deserves to be buried at Westminster, beside his wife Anne Neville.
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Old 06-02-2013, 16:51
curmy
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Do they know exactly where in Westminster Abbey his wife was buried ?

I think Richard 111 should be buried in Leicester Cathedral ,after all the poor place hasn't got much else going for it !
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Old 06-02-2013, 17:17
dome
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Do they know exactly where in Westminster Abbey his wife was buried ?

I think Richard 111 should be buried in Leicester Cathedral ,after all the poor place hasn't got much else going for it !
She had a magnificent funeral and was buried on the southern side of the Abbey near the altar. No stone or monument marked her grave, possibly because Richard was killed that year at Bosworth.
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our...of-richard-iii
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:07
Nesta Robbins
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The King In The Car Park - sounds like the title of an episode of Bones.
My favourite was quoted on the University of Leicester website.
:

Richard III - not a below par king, but a below parking!
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:23
LaineyT
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Thanks that's interesting.

I wonder if Philippa's going to nick Richard's reconstructed head & keep it in her bedroom at home
That would be to creepy she had the vapours every time his name was mentioned lol...she wouldnt leave the house if his head was there lol
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:31
woot_whoo
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That would be to creepy she had the vapours every time his name was mentioned lol...she wouldnt leave the house if his head was there lol
I have the most surreal image of that reconstructed head now fastened to a male mannequin's body and treated very much in the manner the landlady treated her 'tenants' in the classic Tales of the Unexpected episode, 'The Landlady' (don't watch if easily spooked )
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:46
curmy
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She had a magnificent funeral and was buried on the southern side of the Abbey near the altar. No stone or monument marked her grave, possibly because Richard was killed that year at Bosworth.

http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our...of-richard-iii
OK thanks , although I gather in recent years some sort of plaque has been put up .
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:48
curmy
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I liked the earlier joke

I have the most surreal image of that reconstructed head now fastened to a male mannequin's body and treated very much in the manner the landlady treated her 'tenants' in the classic Tales of the Unexpected episode, 'The Landlady' (don't watch if easily spooked )
I know what you mean

Someone on twitter suggested she'd put the head on her settee next to her , amongst her cats when she watched TV
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:52
curmy
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Someone put this on twitter

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps736348e3.jpg
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:56
allie4
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That is SERIOUSLY funny!
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:09
Englishspinner
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I think Richard 111 should be buried in Leicester Cathedral ,after all the poor place hasn't got much else going for it !
The Cathedral's a regular venue for the Leicester Comedy Festival every February - I've seen Milton Jones there a few years ago and next week Alistair McGowan is playing a gig there.

Poor old lad's going to be the inspiration for a whole load of jokes over the next few years, if he finds his final resting place there.
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:24
Trsvis_Bickle
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That is a really nice way to put it. I have joined in with the micky taking here but - I admit you are absolutely right. Richard, whatever historians may say, was human and whenever you see historical human remains exhumed from some place in other docus there is a sense of respect (in fact the professor who recreated his face was on a series where they built the faces of anonymous people and it was always a hushed moment of reverence when the "person" was revealed). Philippa really saw her beloved Richard in those bones, that was for a scientist difficult to empathise with.
Yes, Philippa's emoting was way over the top but there was a serious point to be made - this man was a fellow human being after all. I've certainly seen documentaries where what we might regard as excessive respect has been accorded to human remains. One concerned a 19th century US Naval vessel, the wreck of which was raised and the US Naval personnel conducting the salvage refused the cameramen even a glimpse of the scant human remains recovered; as far as they were concerned, those guys were fellow servicemen and deserved the same respect as any other fallen US sailor. Quite correct and also quite moving.
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:37
curmy
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The Cathedral's a regular venue for the Leicester Comedy Festival every February - I've seen Milton Jones there a few years ago and next week Alistair McGowan is playing a gig there.

Poor old lad's going to be the inspiration for a whole load of jokes over the next few years, if he finds his final resting place there.
Another joke was , " That's gonna be one hell of a parking fine, perhaps they clamped his horse ! "
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:38
curmy
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Yes, Philippa's emoting was way over the top but there was a serious point to be made - this man was a fellow human being after all. I've certainly seen documentaries where what we might regard as excessive respect has been accorded to human remains. One concerned a 19th century US Naval vessel, the wreck of which was raised and the US Naval personnel conducting the salvage refused the cameramen even a glimpse of the scant human remains recovered; as far as they were concerned, those guys were fellow servicemen and deserved the same respect as any other fallen US sailor. Quite correct and also quite moving.
I can understand that .
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:51
towers
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Well yes but you could say that about pretty much any white bloke of the right age if you stick that wig and hat on him. Olivier looked like the portrait as well.
Apparently the lady who did this facial reconstruction has also reconstructed the skeletal remains of murder victims and helped indentify who the victim was - pretty clever really.
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Old 06-02-2013, 20:32
prehensile
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I'm watching a recording of this programme now, and quite enjoying it.

Apart from that bloody drama queen from the Richard III Society who is getting right up my nose, not to mention on my tits.
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Old 06-02-2013, 20:39
curmy
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Apparently the lady who did this facial reconstruction has also reconstructed the skeletal remains of murder victims and helped indentify who the victim was - pretty clever really.
That must be a gruesome job !
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:03
Cadiva
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Here are a couple of links about how Richard III spoke - the second is a podcast from the University of Leicester:-

http://news.yahoo.com/king-richard-i...195452558.html

https://soundcloud.com/university-of-leicester
The sound file's fascinating although I suspect, as is the case together, the nobility would have had a completely different accent to the "peasantry"
I was also bemused by the bloke's comment about him not sounding Yorkshire and why his writing not having anything "Yorkshire" in it would mean he wouldn't have had a Yorkshire twang given that he grew up in the county. My writing doesn't have anything pertaining to Yorkshire in it either but I still sound like a Yorkshire girl when I speak!
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