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Old 05-02-2013, 17:15
PinkPetunia
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No, I don't live there. Not anymore. I do know their attitudes are unchanged however. She is dead to them, and they have made no effort to reconcile even for the sake of the grandchildren they have never seen. I've long since washed my hands of my childhood home.
I am very sorry to hear that .But they do not represent us all
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:16
irishfeen
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I welcome that day too , it has to come and the sooner the better for us all
First steps which should happen almost immediately is the handing over of all Irish schools from Catholic church patronage to the state and ending of political interference on government policy [especially so with Fianna Fail/Fine Gael]
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:19
mackara
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And di you see the protests and rallies and support from the public and the outcry .NO more lieing down and taking it from the majority
By the way that enquery has not published results yet as to the reason she was not offered a termination .I will await to hear the final results before commenting on it
It is good that people are now speaking out but I feel that the case of the forced labour workhouses /laundries needs to be dealt with in the European court with stiff penalties being handed out such is the level of crime involved. Internal investigations by the church (laughable as always) or the state and a sad excuse of an apology will bring no comfort to the tens of thousands of women who have suffered nor the 4,000 women who escape the backward religion based laws when they travel to the U.K every year for abortions.
If this nonsense is ever going to stop the people at the top need to be prosecuted at the highest level and made an example of instead of being whisked of and hidden in another part of the country/world which is the norm, It is about time the church was told it can no longer live outside the law nor think that it is the law.
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:29
PinkPetunia
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It is good that people are now speaking out but I feel that the case of the forced labour workhouses /laundries needs to be dealt with in the European court with stiff penalties being handed out such is the level of crime involved. Internal investigations by the church (laughable as always) or the state and a sad excuse of an apology will bring no comfort to the tens of thousands of women who have suffered nor the 4,000 women who escape the backward religion based laws when they travel to the U.K every year for abortions.
If this nonsense is ever going to stop the people at the top need to be prosecuted at the highest level and made an example of instead of being whisked of and hidden in another part of the country/world which is the norm, It is about time the church was told it can no longer live outside the law nor think that it is the law.

Now that I fully agree with . Completly .
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:40
Eurostar
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Depressingly the report finds that parents often actively colluded in the girls being imprisoned. Ireland clearly was a dysfunctional and pretty twisted society in it's attitudes to children and things like sexuality.

Interestingly though, the report finds that the industrial schools for boys were much, much worse and the boys frequently suffered physical and sexual abuse which doesn't appear to have happened to the girls.
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Old 05-02-2013, 17:42
irishfeen
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Indeed. My girlfriend and I left Derry after she was disowned by her family for falling pregnant. Literally thrown out of the house. If they could have sent her to a laundry they would have. These attitudes have remained largely unchanged.
That's really sad to hear mate but I think that attitude that your girlfriend and you encountered is somewhat against what the vast majority of Irish people's opinion these days, that opinion thankfully is almost gone and is an exception.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:12
sutie
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My good friend's aunt was a Mother Superior in one of these institutions in Ireland. When she was taken to visit her, my friend was told not to go near any of the girls as they were 'unclean.'

Later in her life, in her teenage years, my friend was raped, and when she went sobbing to her mother for help, was told that she must have brought it on herself, and that it was most important not to tell anyone, in case it brought shame on the family.

It has always struck me as the strangest thing that the more devout the person (whatever the religion,) the more cruel and unfeeling they seem to be.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:23
Scarlett O Hara
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It's an utterly shameful part of our history.

It's sickening to think about and to know these attitudes still exist in some forms.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:24
The Exiled Dub
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Not good, but were they forced to work in laundries/sweatshops for 50-60 hours per week for nothing bar a bed in what was effectively in a prison, then paraded around towns and villages and made fools of simply because they got pregnant out of wedlock. This went on in the later part of the 20th century in what is supposed to be a civilised country. A Hindu lady recently died in an Irish hospital because the church run state refused her a life saving abortion on religious grounds, that is what I call backward.
You obviously know nothing about Ireland, it is not a church run state and hasn't been for quite some time, the religious orders no longer have the ear of the Taoiseach. And by the way, abortion is illegal in Ireland, not because of religious reasons, but because it was enshrined in law following a referendum.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:25
Big Boy Barry
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The relationship between the Irish and Catholicism is like battered wife syndrome.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:27
The Exiled Dub
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I worked with an older bloke from Dundalk, and he was "educated" by the Christian Brothers in Ireland when he was younger, some of the things he would tell were terrible. Definitely left a mark on him.
I too 'enjoyed' an education provided by the Christian Brothers. And whilst there was a couple of the Brothers who were decent blokes, trying their best to provide a good education, the vast majority were complete and utters shits. More so in primary school than secondary (when you were actually big enough to defend yourself from getting beaten). I don't have much time for priests or nuns either. I remember when I 8 a priest gave me a full punch in the head merely because I was talking in church. I still vividly remember him. If I could, I would piss on his grave.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:28
hyena
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None of the stories that have emerged surrounding the catholic church in recent years have surprised me in the slightest.

I was brought up a catholic and went to a catholic school - and the vast majority of nuns and priests I encountered were the most cold, horrible people you could wish to meet.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:30
Eurostar
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My good friend's aunt was a Mother Superior in one of these institutions in Ireland. When she was taken to visit her, my friend was told not to go near any of the girls as they were 'unclean.'

Later in her life, in her teenage years, my friend was raped, and when she went sobbing to her mother for help, was told that she must have brought it on herself, and that it was most important not to tell anyone, in case it brought shame on the family.

It has always struck me as the strangest thing that the more devout the person (whatever the religion,) the more cruel and unfeeling they seem to be.
The parents seemed on the surface to be obsessed with 'purity' but in reality, it was more to do with shame and their sense of standing within the community. Any girl who became pregnant out of wedlock was guilty of bringing great "shame" on the family (even if she was in her twenties or thirties). The solution was to remove the girl from sight.

Incredibly, many girls who were imprisoned weren't even pregnant or single mums, but simply suspected of being sexually active or having "impure thoughts"....it was a screwed up society for sure. They were using a quite fanatical interpretation of Catholic teachings to justify their foul deeds.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:33
irishfeen
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The relationship between the Irish and Catholicism is like battered wife syndrome.
... Yeah and thankfully its coming to an end after almost 100 years, for too long even the Irish government kissed the ring on the Archbishops finger turning its back on the people of Ireland. The Magdalene Laundries amounted to nothing but power over the most vulnerable people of Ireland in a manner which mirrored the days of slavery in deep south of the USA.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:40
Eurostar
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... Yeah and thankfully its coming to an end after almost 100 years, for too long even the Irish government kissed the ring on the Archbishops finger turning its back on the people of Ireland. The Magdalene Laundries amounted to nothing but power over the most vulnerable people of Ireland in a manner which mirrored the days of slavery in deep south of the USA.
The funny thing is it could not have happened if Ireland had remained within the UK. The likes of De Valera were cranks and religious nuts who actively colluded with the church.

There were many positives to independence but the major downside was the power the Catholic Church were given (something that didn't seem to happen in any other Catholic country).
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:50
The Exiled Dub
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The funny thing is it could not have happened if Ireland had remained within the UK. The likes of De Valera were cranks and religious nuts who actively colluded with the church.

There were many positives to independence but the major downside was the power the Catholic Church were given (something that didn't seem to happen in any other Catholic country).
Dev had this dream of a Celtic utopia where Ireland was completely separated from England, where the people lived happy, simple, religious lives. We didn't get a say in it, of course. Total nut job.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:54
irishfeen
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The funny thing is it could not have happened if Ireland had remained within the UK. The likes of De Valera were cranks and religious nuts who actively colluded with the church.

There were many positives to independence but the major downside was the power the Catholic Church were given (something that didn't seem to happen in any other Catholic country).
Yeah, it was the backward nature of De Valera and the rest who transferred power to the catholic church - especially in education and "moral issues"... it wasn't until the early 1990's until the stranglehold was beginning to loosen.... we have to remember it wasn't until 1985 that contraception was legalised and being gay was illegal until 1993.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:55
mackara
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You obviously know nothing about Ireland, it is not a church run state and hasn't been for quite some time, the religious orders no longer have the ear of the Taoiseach. And by the way, abortion is illegal in Ireland, not because of religious reasons, but because it was enshrined in law following a referendum.
Of course the state is run by the church it always has been, thankfully that is coming to an end and I hope a fair few of its religious criminals get locked up behind bars were they belong.
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Old 05-02-2013, 18:57
MRSgotobed
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None of the stories that have emerged surrounding the catholic church in recent years have surprised me in the slightest.

I was brought up a catholic and went to a catholic school - and the vast majority of nuns and priests I encountered were the most cold, horrible people you could wish to meet.
Same here and were the biggest hypocrites going.

One of the nun's in our school, looked a bit 'Mrs Brown' actually, was positively orgasmic when the Parish Priest came to visit, all silly and girly, yet a tyrant to the pupils.

The only Priest I had any respect for was my Great Uncle, who was a Missionary White father in Africa. He hated it when he had to be in UK, ended up dying and being buried out there.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:01
irishfeen
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Dev had this dream of a Celtic utopia where Ireland was completely separated from England, where the people lived happy, simple, religious lives. We didn't get a say in it, of course. Total nut job.
One of the great "what if's?" is the death of Michael Collins, would things have been different if he had lived?...would the catholic church have been given so much power? ... its an interesting thought.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:05
The Exiled Dub
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One of the great "what if's?" is the death of Michael Collins, would things have been different if he had lived?...would the catholic church have been given so much power? ... its an interesting thought.
Oh, it would have been so different, I firmly believe that the church, whilst having a role, would have had much less influence, and I believe the issue of partition would not have rumbled on for decades either. I have always believed that the wrong leader was killed. His death was Ireland's great loss.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:12
GOGO2
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Depressingly the report finds that parents often actively colluded in the girls being imprisoned. Ireland clearly was a dysfunctional and pretty twisted society in it's attitudes to children and things like sexuality.

Interestingly though, the report finds that the industrial schools for boys were much, much worse and the boys frequently suffered physical and sexual abuse which doesn't appear to have happened to the girls.
Have you not read any recounts of the survivors? Physical and sexual abuse was rife.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:15
AZZURRI 06
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Don`t think dirty laundry should be aired in public.........
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:20
PinkPetunia
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Not good, but were they forced to work in laundries/sweatshops for 50-60 hours per week for nothing bar a bed in what was effectively in a prison, then paraded around towns and villages and made fools of simply because they got pregnant out of wedlock. This went on in the later part of the 20th century in what is supposed to be a civilised country. A Hindu lady recently died in an Irish hospital because the church run state refused her a life saving abortion on religious grounds, that is what I call backward.
The state did not refuse that lady an abortion .A doctor in a hospital refused her an abortion and the reasons have not yet been clarified .For all we know the doctor was working alone and made that desicion alone .Because in Galway Univ Hospital there were other cases where an abortion was carried out to save the mother .,The results of an enquiry is not yet published and so the facts are not yet clear so you make assumptions with no base in fact
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:20
irishfeen
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Oh, it would have been so different, I firmly believe that the church, whilst having a role, would have had much less influence, and I believe the issue of partition would not have rumbled on for decades either. I have always believed that the wrong leader was killed. His death was Ireland's great loss.
The sad thing is that we will never know but to be honest the country was so backward up until at least the 1970's that it really couldn't have been much worse who every took the reins after partition.
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