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Old 06-02-2013, 12:03
noise747
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Here is a review of the Surface pro

I would have thought that a Keyboard would have been included, that is separate, considering the cost of the machine, adding a Keyboard will make it even more expensive.


Still it don't sound like it is a bad unit if you want that sort of thing.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:37
The Rat
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Ars have published a review today too: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/...faster-louder/

Dave
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:32
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Has it actually been released today?
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:44
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Another review from The Guardian.

'We like it, but wouldn't buy one.'
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:44
Stig
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Has it actually been released today?
It's out in the US on 9th February.
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:47
emptybox
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Another review here.
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/mi...s-8-pro-review

This fellow seems to find problems finding the right zoom setting for the desktop on an external display.
Seemingly although it has a 1920x1080 resolution, Microsoft has given it a default 150% zoom on the desktop features so the likes of taskbar, icon etc don't look too small on a 10" display.
But that looks bad on a larger display, and there's no easy way to configure it separately.
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Old 06-02-2013, 17:55
neo_wales
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Stunning and I am really looking forward to getting mine
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:11
whoever,hey
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Regarding the keyboard choice, isn't it because you can get lots of different keyboards for it?
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:17
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Regarding the keyboard choice, isn't it because you can get lots of different keyboards for it?
They are selling RT with and without touch cover, the price with is slightly better than when purchased separately. But they probably think more people will want type cover with the pro anyway.
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:22
whoever,hey
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They are selling RT with and without touch cover, the price with is slightly better than when purchased separately. But they probably think more people will want type cover with the pro anyway.
I know i would get it with type cover, if i did.
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:56
TheBigM
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My mind on the surface keeps changing.

I do a lot of travelling for work (but required to use work laptop for it). But that does mean I am keen to have a do everything machine that's light enough to put in my rucksack alongside work laptop.

The Surface Pro would let me do everything in a single machine, the only real consequences being the battery life is just enough to last the longer train journeys. I thought a lot about the sub-optimal lap use. I would enjoy using a laptop with nice trackpad on the sofa but when travelling, using it in tablet mode should be fine enough. Some trains, you don't have space to get a laptop screen at the right angle anyway.

Currently I own an iPad, I love how it's light enough to carry everywhere, it does most of what I want, it is instant-on and the battery life is something I never need to worry about, it ALWAYS has more than enough battery. I have a WiFi one but I can always trade it in for a 3G one if I get that way inclined.

The main things I can't do (or wouldn't want to do). The other thing is video. You can't play mkv files easily on an iPad. You can't get them on there easily either as there's no file system and there's no convenient way to run python scripts like sabNZBD. Also, the lack of a plugin system with Safari on the iPad means you have to see adverts all the time when you browse - making pages load slower, use up more bandwidth, battery life etc.

I thought about taking an ultrabook alongside an iPad but that seems so wasteful in terms of money, space in my bag and weight to lug around (usually have several other bags with me when travelling). We've established an iPad alone isn't enough.

I've reached two potential options of similar cost - sell my iPad and use an ultrabook/macbook air (which doesn't matter right now, form factor is this conversation). The ultrabook would be able to do everything I wanted but not always in the most convenient way regarding watching movies, reading etc.

Another option is to complement the iPad (thinking of doing so with a Mac Mini for around 400). I would load up video onto the iPad and make do with the iPad during the working week.

What makes all this complicated is that you have other hybrid devices like the Lenovo Yoga 13 which has a similar Core i5, but has a bigger screen, can be used on your lap and has a proper keyboard and mouse. The downside is weight, size (size is a pro and a con depending on situation), and exposure of the keyboard.

If Windows 8 had a similar ecosystem to the iPad, then I would definitely get the Lenovo I reckon. As it does not and the iOS app ecosystem is actually quite nice, I think an iPad Mini and an Acer S7 might make a nice compromise?

This has been a long post and is a bit rambling etc but some of the above may align with your own thoughts on the best combination of devices.
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Old 06-02-2013, 21:43
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I do not know what your laptop work entails, but you might be able to do a lot of it with Windows RT device. You get better battery life than with pro, you get flash player unlike with iPad, you get Office and you can even play those mkv files on it. You can connect to homegroup, connect with remote desktop to other Windows computers. USB port, micro SD slot, micro HDMI, bluetooth.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:22
noise747
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Stunning and I am really looking forward to getting mine
Of cause it is and of cause you are, even if it was a the worse machine built you would say that.

It sounds ok, but I would not say it is stunning. We will see how reliable it is in use with all the heat it generates.

I am amazed mind you that it is not much larger than the surface considering the CPU it got in there.

I don't think MS heart is in this to be honest, they are a software company and always will be. Maybe they are just trying to kickstart the other manufactures.

Not that I am in the market for one, but if I was and was interested in a windows 8 machine in the same sort of format , I would go for something from Acer.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:24
noise747
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Regarding the keyboard choice, isn't it because you can get lots of different keyboards for it?
Two, a ZX81 style one and a low profile type one that feels more like a Zx spectrum plus. Yes, I have used both on a surface.


i think they could have put a keyboard in with it for that price.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:26
whoever,hey
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Two, a ZX81 style one and a low profile type one that feels more like a Zx spectrum plus. Yes, I have used both on a surface.


i think they could have put a keyboard in with it for that price.
But i would be annoyed if it wasn't the one i wanted, because i'd have a keyboard i would have paid for yet didn't want.
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Old 06-02-2013, 22:28
whoever,hey
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I don't think MS heart is in this to be honest, they are a software company and always will be. Maybe they are just trying to kickstart the other manufactures.
"Think" sums this up entirely. Entirely a thought exercise on your behalf and nothing more.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:16
TheBigM
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I do not know what your laptop work entails, but you might be able to do a lot of it with Windows RT device. You get better battery life than with pro, you get flash player unlike with iPad, you get Office and you can even play those mkv files on it. You can connect to homegroup, connect with remote desktop to other Windows computers. USB port, micro SD slot, micro HDMI, bluetooth.
Hmm, my friend has a Surface RT. The hardware is nice but I'm just not feeling any of those metro apps.

Metro sparsity and "content-first" approach works really well on a smartphone where screen space is precious but on larger sized screens from the iPad to my 15" laptop, I feel they should add some chrome in there which can dramatically change the UX of apps.

I really think they need to rethink through very carefully what metro means and adapt to the larger screen. It's great on the phones, less impressed elsewhere.

Work must only be done on the work provided laptop as it is secured - port control, VPN, group policy enforcement etc. It's not a bad machine though - Lenovo X220 although having a 12.5" screen is starting to get to my and my eyes.

The microSD slot is fine for putting large movies on but not general purpose in my view as it doesn't work so great with the libraries right now. Flash player - you have to tinker with the whitelist and I can think of only one site I use now where flash is needed.

Whilst I am very curious to try out OS X just because it is something new and I like to know all, the most sensible thing for me it seems is to combine my iPad with an inexpensive Ultrabook.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:57
cnbcwatcher
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It's out in the US on 9th February.
When is it coming out in the UK?
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:23
neo_wales
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Of cause it is and of cause you are, even if it was a the worse machine built you would say that.

It sounds ok, but I would not say it is stunning. We will see how reliable it is in use with all the heat it generates.

I am amazed mind you that it is not much larger than the surface considering the CPU it got in there.

I don't think MS heart is in this to be honest, they are a software company and always will be. Maybe they are just trying to kickstart the other manufactures.

Not that I am in the market for one, but if I was and was interested in a windows 8 machine in the same sort of format , I would go for something from Acer.

Utter rubbish from you again To me its stunning to you its not, horses for courses.

This is the first of its type from MS and no doubt there will be others in the future as the tablet evolves, early days yet
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:30
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The microSD slot is fine for putting large movies on but not general purpose in my view as it doesn't work so great with the libraries right now. Flash player - you have to tinker with the whitelist and I can think of only one site I use now where flash is needed.
Yes, that's true with libraries, there are some tricks to make the metro apps see the files on the SD as a part of a library, but one can always open any media from Explorer.

And I actually prefer a minimalism of Metro, it certainly works on a Surface size screen, though it does look a bit funny on my 24'' monitor. But in general faux realism isn't my thing. Steve Jobs loved it and that's how their software look like.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:58
noise747
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But i would be annoyed if it wasn't the one i wanted, because i'd have a keyboard i would have paid for yet didn't want.
Then give people a choice and include it in the price. i wonder how many people will buy one of these machines, open the box and find there is no keyboard, because they did not realise?


Oh well, not that bothered really, I am never going to get one, only just about cope with touch screen on a mobile phone.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:59
noise747
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"Think" sums this up entirely. Entirely a thought exercise on your behalf and nothing more.
My opinion and I have read a couple of articles that think the same.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:03
noise747
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Utter rubbish from you again To me its stunning to you its not, horses for courses.
You got your head stuck so far up MS backside, if they had one that you would come out of their mouth.

According to you Ms can do no wrong.

windows 8 is great, the new surface pro is stunning. Lets see how well it sells first.


This is the first of its type from MS and no doubt there will be others in the future as the tablet evolves, early days yet
We will see, MS tried to take on Apples Iplayer with the Zune and came unstuck. Not that I thought Apples Iplayer was that great.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:37
neo_wales
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You got your head stuck so far up MS backside, if they had one that you would come out of their mouth.

According to you Ms can do no wrong.

windows 8 is great, the new surface pro is stunning. Lets see how well it sells first.

We will see, MS tried to take on Apples Iplayer with the Zune and came unstuck. Not that I thought Apples Iplayer was that great.
Really, you know all that do you? Of course you don't. I've used computers since day one, tried all the systems (including apple) and Windows works for me, simple as that; something that in my opinion is better comes along and I'll dump windows and shift, I'm only loyal to what works for me and until a better (in my opinion) thing comes along.

I currently use a Windows 7.5 phone which will be changed for a W8 phone shortly to go with my Surface Pro, I also use an S2 and Android tablet. If your talking about a means of communication I'm a radio ham too and use packet data

So get your facts right before going off on one of your so often ill informed diatribes.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:22
DotNetWill
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My mind on the surface keeps changing.

I do a lot of travelling for work (but required to use work laptop for it). But that does mean I am keen to have a do everything machine that's light enough to put in my rucksack alongside work laptop.

The Surface Pro would let me do everything in a single machine, the only real consequences being the battery life is just enough to last the longer train journeys. I thought a lot about the sub-optimal lap use. I would enjoy using a laptop with nice trackpad on the sofa but when travelling, using it in tablet mode should be fine enough. Some trains, you don't have space to get a laptop screen at the right angle anyway.

Currently I own an iPad, I love how it's light enough to carry everywhere, it does most of what I want, it is instant-on and the battery life is something I never need to worry about, it ALWAYS has more than enough battery. I have a WiFi one but I can always trade it in for a 3G one if I get that way inclined.

The main things I can't do (or wouldn't want to do). The other thing is video. You can't play mkv files easily on an iPad. You can't get them on there easily either as there's no file system and there's no convenient way to run python scripts like sabNZBD. Also, the lack of a plugin system with Safari on the iPad means you have to see adverts all the time when you browse - making pages load slower, use up more bandwidth, battery life etc.

I thought about taking an ultrabook alongside an iPad but that seems so wasteful in terms of money, space in my bag and weight to lug around (usually have several other bags with me when travelling). We've established an iPad alone isn't enough.

I've reached two potential options of similar cost - sell my iPad and use an ultrabook/macbook air (which doesn't matter right now, form factor is this conversation). The ultrabook would be able to do everything I wanted but not always in the most convenient way regarding watching movies, reading etc.

Another option is to complement the iPad (thinking of doing so with a Mac Mini for around 400). I would load up video onto the iPad and make do with the iPad during the working week.

What makes all this complicated is that you have other hybrid devices like the Lenovo Yoga 13 which has a similar Core i5, but has a bigger screen, can be used on your lap and has a proper keyboard and mouse. The downside is weight, size (size is a pro and a con depending on situation), and exposure of the keyboard.

If Windows 8 had a similar ecosystem to the iPad, then I would definitely get the Lenovo I reckon. As it does not and the iOS app ecosystem is actually quite nice, I think an iPad Mini and an Acer S7 might make a nice compromise?

This has been a long post and is a bit rambling etc but some of the above may align with your own thoughts on the best combination of devices.
I think those two things are linked :P
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