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The Railway - Keeping Britain on Track - Tuesdays BBC2 - 9pm


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Old 13-02-2013, 12:17
Prince Monalulu
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have to say that cleaners attitude to people who travel in first class was atrocious. Not everyone who travels in first class, reads seedy books and does not tidy up for themselves. If thats her attitude to the job, give it to someone who really wants the job.
As she doesn't come in contact with the customers, what does it matter what she thinks of them?
As long as she does the job she's paid to do, in a timely manner.
She's been there years, so I guess she does the job to an acceptable standard as judged by her managers.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:18
wazzyboy
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She didn't say they all do it. She said it goes on. Big difference.
And would you like it if you had to deal with it?
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:39
Prince Monalulu
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She didn't say they all do it. She said it goes on. Big difference.
And would you like it if you had to deal with it?
I should really declare an interest here as a professional moaner and workplace miserablist.

If first class wasn't cleaned properly, I'm pretty sure there would be complaints and probably a fair few in writing, not just the minor verbal moan that can be ignored as venting.
As you say, she didn't say everyone did it, but even if she did, it would just be her opinion.
She's not paid for opinions or to 'like' the customers, she's paid to clean.

A cleaner on the Underground doc last year, didn't think much of the customers either, dropping stuff, being sick and walking away, apparently feeling no shame.
IIRC A fair number of FM's seemed to agree with her too.
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:22
Train driver
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I am a train driver and i can assure you that train drivers salaries certainly do not start at 50k. We also do not get breaks of 30mins between each journey - and the breaks we do get are legal requirements, not union regulations.

In a shift of up to 10hours we are legally required to take 30mins break. I don't think that's asking much considering we can spend 5 hours constantly driving with no way of using the toilet, no way of getting a cup of tea, having a smoke, leg stretch etc. - things which most other jobs allow.

I just wish the BBC could get facts right in these kind of programmes. The comments about drivers seemed to be deliberately making us out to be lazy and overpaid which is far from the truth as I have explained.
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:43
Sallyforth
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I am a train driver and i can assure you that train drivers salaries certainly do not start at 50k. We also do not get breaks of 30mins between each journey - and the breaks we do get are legal requirements, not union regulations.

In a shift of up to 10hours we are legally required to take 30mins break. I don't think that's asking much considering we can spend 5 hours constantly driving with no way of using the toilet, no way of getting a cup of tea, having a smoke, leg stretch etc. - things which most other jobs allow.

I just wish the BBC could get facts right in these kind of programmes. The comments about drivers seemed to be deliberately making us out to be lazy and overpaid which is far from the truth as I have explained.
It's not in their interests to state the facts, creates much less controversy among viewers.
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Old 13-02-2013, 15:02
Sallyforth
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Middle management in all organisations is full of people like him. No real skills to do a "proper job" and without the aptitude to climb the ladder further.

It's a problem that's getting worse as we have a generation of University graduates with useless degrees. They want a professional job earning 40k+ but don't have any experience or skills to do something useful so they end up as HR managers, customer service trainers and railway station managers.
As someone who has taught University programmes in what was labelled by some a useless course (I was teaching those intending entering health and public service) I don't think it's that they don't have the skills to do other things, more that this sort of job is both relatively readily available and lucrative. By the time they get in situ they are not really using what they learnt in the way academia might have intended, they get swallowed up by the corporate machinery, especially the younger and inexperienced ones.
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:11
zandar
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I am a train driver and i can assure you that train drivers salaries certainly do not start at 50k. We also do not get breaks of 30mins between each journey - and the breaks we do get are legal requirements, not union regulations.

In a shift of up to 10hours we are legally required to take 30mins break. I don't think that's asking much considering we can spend 5 hours constantly driving with no way of using the toilet, no way of getting a cup of tea, having a smoke, leg stretch etc. - things which most other jobs allow.

I just wish the BBC could get facts right in these kind of programmes. The comments about drivers seemed to be deliberately making us out to be lazy and overpaid which is far from the truth as I have explained.
Surely, most drivers cabs are attached to a carriage that has a toilet & you can simply walk through - having secured the cab first?

Presumably, the drivers on the main routes like East Coast are starting on 50,000? I have seen adverts for drivers on bog standard routes operated by Sprinters that get 39,000 +. This is well above the average wage. I have heard of drivers with DB Schenker (freight) getting 75,000, admittedly working overtime & at night.
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:16
Sallyforth
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I work with folk getting paid a lot more with no responsibility for life and limb. If the drivers can get that good luck to them IMO. As for that manager guy, what is he on and is he worth it?
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Old 13-02-2013, 16:24
cookieshop
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As she doesn't come in contact with the customers, what does it matter what she thinks of them?
As long as she does the job she's paid to do, in a timely manner.
She's been there years, so I guess she does the job to an acceptable standard as judged by her managers.
Regardless of if she comes into contact with customers or not, her attitude really was awful. Regardless of if she dislikes her job, to say such silly things as she did say, brings into question her commitment to the job. And if she has the right attitude to it.

I certainly would bring her in for a talk after last nights broadcast. The station manager who by all accounts takes great pride in having a "world class team." Then having people on their staff lambasting customers and tarnishing them with the same brush does not a world class team make. She should have kept quiet and used a bit of common sense. Not all passengers who travel first class are incapable of using good manners. Its insulting and inappropriate at best.

Brilliant program. but over 300 for a ticket to Newcastle wowza.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:22
TheBilly
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On the new concourse ticket bit when the bloke was saying I'll have to shout, a pleasant plummy man bought a ticket.
I recognised him from somwhere and it just clicked now where I know him from.

He was Lady Chelsea's mate on Borat.

Fifty seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvqo-COvzl4
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:31
Starflashed
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I certainly would bring her in for a talk after last nights broadcast. The station manager who by all accounts takes great pride in having a "world class team." Then having people on their staff lambasting customers and tarnishing them with the same brush does not a world class team make. She should have kept quiet and used a bit of common sense. Not all passengers who travel first class are incapable of using good manners. Its insulting and inappropriate at best.

Brilliant program. but over 300 for a ticket to Newcastle wowza.
The station manager works for network rail, but the cleaner works for a private contractor (ISS) in a job outsourced from East Coast trains. She will thus have very low wages, and no job benefits such as discounted or free travel. Welcome to the privatised fragmented railway.

Plus, if that bloke had booked just the day before online or over the phone, or even in any station (though with less discount), he would have got a ticket for below 100 easy.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:55
Bulletguy1
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50000 per year....my god!!!!
50k pa is 'bottom line'. Many earn much more.

Where I used to work a young chap was taken on on a temporary contract. Turned out he was a train driver who had applied for a move down south and he told us about the pay scales. Passenger train drivers can earn up to 80k pa.

We were gobsmacked! He didn't stay long either. Three weeks later he just walked out......he'd got the job he applied for.
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Old 13-02-2013, 17:58
jonnyinscotland
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The station manager works for network rail, but the cleaner works for a private contractor (ISS) in a job outsourced from East Coast trains. She will thus have very low wages, and no job benefits such as discounted or free travel. Welcome to the privatised fragmented railway.

Plus, if that bloke had booked just the day before online or over the phone, or even in any station (though with less discount), he would have got a ticket for below 100 easy.
And there is one of the big problems with rail travel in this country.
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Old 13-02-2013, 18:14
streetwise
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50,000 a year for a driver!!!
Have a look into what the job requires before passing judgement please.
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Old 13-02-2013, 19:47
Prince Monalulu
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Regardless of if she comes into contact with customers or not, her attitude really was awful. Regardless of if she dislikes her job, to say such silly things as she did say, brings into question her commitment to the job. And if she has the right attitude to it.

I certainly would bring her in for a talk after last nights broadcast. The station manager who by all accounts takes great pride in having a "world class team." Then having people on their staff lambasting customers and tarnishing them with the same brush does not a world class team make. She should have kept quiet and used a bit of common sense. Not all passengers who travel first class are incapable of using good manners. Its insulting and inappropriate at best.

Brilliant program. but over 300 for a ticket to Newcastle wowza.
So apparently she can do the job to the required standard and has done for 21 years (she hasn't been sacked), but hasn't got the right attitude and commitment.

I don't remember her saying 'all' about the first class customers, but you want to take it that way.
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Old 13-02-2013, 20:44
Niceonejohn
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Is Debi's hideous dress actually an East Coast uniform handout?
No, management don't get issued with uniforms, nor do they get an allowance.
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Old 13-02-2013, 20:50
Niceonejohn
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Experienced worker telling the trainer how much bollocks she's spouting
Right then, I can tell you categorically that the "experienced worker" at the time the programme was filmed, had well less than a year's railway experience ,and that the "trainer" had over 26 years on the railway, working her way up from yts trainee. Just shows how gullible the viewing public are when faced with a cleverly edited "documentary"!
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Old 13-02-2013, 21:02
Martin Phillp
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Right then, I can tell you categorically that the "experienced worker" at the time the programme was filmed, had well less than a year's railway experience ,and that the "trainer" had over 26 years on the railway, working her way up from yts trainee. Just shows how gullible the viewing public are when faced with a cleverly edited "documentary"!
Hello Steve Manager.
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Old 13-02-2013, 21:15
Niceonejohn
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Hello Steve Manager.
Hello Martin phillp
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Old 13-02-2013, 22:07
Martin Phillp
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Hello Martin phillp
Anything else you'd like to add with your vast railway knowledge?
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Old 13-02-2013, 22:13
Garry-paul
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Have a look into what the job requires before passing judgement please.
Well said,im not a driver on the railways but they earn every bit of their salary as far as im concerned,they take hundreds of people at speed across our nation as safely as they can,and have to cope with suicides on the line,cars jumping level crossing barriers,youngsters throwing bricks from bridges which when smash through a drivers windscreen causes terrible injuries and put the lifes of passengers at risk!!!! I travel by train quite a lot and thank goodness we have highly paid skilled men and women up at the sharp end!!!!
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Old 13-02-2013, 22:41
Train driver
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50k pa is 'bottom line'. Many earn much more.

Where I used to work a young chap was taken on on a temporary contract. Turned out he was a train driver who had applied for a move down south and he told us about the pay scales. Passenger train drivers can earn up to 80k pa.

We were gobsmacked! He didn't stay long either. Three weeks later he just walked out......he'd got the job he applied for.
Sorry but that is just rubbish. Most drivers earn around 40k. East coast drivers are on 50k but they tend to hand pick drivers from other operators so by paying a lot more they get to choose who they employ.

As for the 80k figure that is nowhere near the truth! To earn anywhere near 80k as a train driver you would have to work every single Sunday, bank holiday and day off as overtime to top up the basic, I suppose its possible but you wouldn't have a life outside work, and it wouldn't be pensionable and is not a salary.

As for the comment about drivers being able to pop back to use the toilet on the train, its not that simple. It would be frowned upon if you stopped a train from doing 125mph to walk back to the toilet. With the rate of acceleration and braking that would add about 20mins delay to a journey!

And not all trains have toilets on them, those of us who do suburban London work out of kings cross don't have loos on all trains and have to make do with a bush off the end of a platform if we are ally desperate but most of us try our best to work to the breaks we are given for that kind of thing.
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Old 13-02-2013, 22:46
ZiQi
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Train drivers' basic annual gross salary in West Midlands

Arriva Cross Country..53,171
Virgin Trains..............49,620
Chiltern Railways.......45,305
London Midland.........42,619
Source: Aslef trade union website
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Old 13-02-2013, 22:48
Train driver
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Train drivers' basic annual gross salary in West Midlands

Arriva Cross Country..53,171
Virgin Trains..............49,620
Chiltern Railways.......45,305
London Midland.........42,619
Source: Aslef trade union website
Quite, so 50k certainly isn't were salaries start! I believe the only operators to pay 50k to drivers are London overground, east coast and cross country. But to get that 50k they have sold a lot of working conditions.
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Old 14-02-2013, 00:00
wazzyboy
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Right then, I can tell you categorically that the "experienced worker" at the time the programme was filmed, had well less than a year's railway experience ,and that the "trainer" had over 26 years on the railway, working her way up from yts trainee. Just shows how gullible the viewing public are when faced with a cleverly edited "documentary"!
Excellent customer service is when you meet their expectations, not yours. That was her line.

So what if their expectations are lower than yours then? Do you do less than you could because they're not asking much? So much for going the extra mile...
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