Ok Steve, I can see that you want to drag us off again, so here goes.

You posted
(so my post of all emails do this is correct)I then replied to say that all emails do this, ie give away some of your personal information as IP addresses are considered to be personal information. So this would mean that my post was rellevant as I was trying to point out that it's not only Three's emails which give away personal information.

Admittedly giving a phone number away in a mail header is slightly more revealing information than an IP address and I would rather an IP be given than a phone number, but it's still a valid point.

As I said, getting back on topic again, I have emailed Three and am interested in what they have to say about this as I am sure others may be too.

I have just emailed with the same question.

I await a pretty standard reply, but will let you know.

IP addresses are not personal information. People cannot call me, email me or text me or contact me via any method by knowing my IP address. Additionally, 3 (and other network) IP addresses change being as they are not static, my 3 IP address is not unique to me, except at that exact time of use - therefore even more reason it is not considered personal.

Under the same rule, if you think about GSM protocol, IMEI numbers are not personal information either, however its the same method by which the protocol identifies a device on its network; Therefore if for example my IMEI number was sent with every text this would not concern me, however if my home phone number or my post code was sent this would be personal information.

Conclusion: Big difference between Personal Information and Network Information.

I would consider IP addresses to be personal information and the IMEI number of my phone would also be something I would consider to be personal information.

It's something that could be used to identify me, even if not a static IP or just an IMEI number.

We obviously have different views as to what's personal information and what's not.

I admit a phone number is much easier to use to identify someone rather than an IP or IMEI, but it's still possible with these other types of information to identify someone in one way or another.

I wouldn't want my IMEI on each email to be honest, but would be happy for an IP address, static or dynamic, to be included in the header of each email.

I have asked Three why they are giving my number in the header of each email and also contacted the Information Comissioners office to enquire if this would be something covered by the data protection act.

Did any of us give consent for our phone numbers to be sent in the email headers? (or is it in the T&C of the service?)

In any case, my initial post was about the phone number being included. Noone else was in any doubt what i meant!

Its only possible to use network info, such as imei and IP, to identify someone and contact them if you are the network that issues the device ID.

Whereas mobile number in the email can be used by anyone and may result in crank calls.

People knowing my IP address would not help them identify or contact me, it would simply help them trace a device on the network, if its not a static IP, it might not even be my device!

I'm not bashing, far from it this for info.

Since last night every single call I make or recieve drops.

I say every, probably 1 in 8 is getting through.
Called 3 cc,(even that was dropped after 6-7 mins, but managed to get my problem across) and they tell me its the cell in my postcode area is down, but check posts 40-41 on this thread and it was happening to stevengray16 last night aswell, and he's in west Lothian!

Anyone else experiencing this apart from the usual call dropping etc?

A mate of mine was in kidderminster and he texted me to say same thing. Calls dropped not immiately, but after a few minutes or so.

Sounds like a capacity problem to me!

Thanks for that Steve, thought it could be a capacity problem, what with all the new 3 subscribers over xmas, but this is a first on me, as in almost every call dropping as soon as it connects.

Just out of interest, I've got a 228 sat next to my 616 and the 228 has a 3g signal and has had all day, although its dropping calls like the 616, but the 616 has no 3g and very poor signal.
Weird.

Some phones dont update the display as often as others. The 616 could be a more accurate reading of signal etc....

Probably alot more subscibers now - I'm sure phones4u were doing one threepay phone for £30 with £15 credit!!

nodnol, completely off topic, but email me - nick.burman.at.gmail.com... i have that kfc ringtone that you wanted (for your son... )

How's that work then? That seems a bit odd. So does it mean then that the network is sending the info, but my phone is not updating it until it sees fit?


My local superdrug was selling 3 phones like hot cakes, more than 300 in the 2 weeks up to xmas.

Phones4u are doing the 313(yuk!) for £24.95 with £15 credit.

Yes and no. Internally the phone processes changes, handovers, receiver/transmitter power etc in realtime, but the display is less frequently updated on some handsets. On some Motorola handsets, selecting "battery save=on", will reduce the frequency of gui update, cell update and lower receiver power.

If you have a data cable and a nokia, you can activate engineer menu, which will give you access to info that the handset actually see's. Eg. Current cell, cell to handover, cell id etc.

Oh no the 313 is awful! By the way, I'm not so sure Three is the cheapest on pay as you go. Whats it like on contract for free minutes?

Interesting info.

I do have a nokia, but an old one on voda payg original.
I'm pretty sure 3 is the cheapest payg?
I don't think anyone can match 500 minutes for £23.50 a month, and I believe the contract 3 is exactly the same as payg.

So when you used all your contracted minutes, you get charged the same rates as a payg customer would pay if all payg minutes have been used and you are using cash credit....at least I think so anyway.

Mind you, I have seen banner ads here on ds for bt mobile offering 100 mins and 50 texts for £4.99 a month.

I think it depends how many minutes you use. For example 3 give 50 minutes for £15, effectively £10 since you get £5 to spend on whatever. Virgin give 60 minutes for £10.

I think if you are a heavy user 3 offers better deals....

I wasn't in any doubt of what you meant either Steve, but if you read my post again you will see I quote this, and only this part and replied to it,
and I pointed out that all emails carry data in the header that could be considered personal data.

I did this because some people may not be familiar with email headers or what's contained in them. I wasn't defending the fact that Three put the phone number in the header at all, in fact as you can see in my other posts I have emailed Three and asked them questions regarding this and will post their reply.

We have covered this again and again in this thread, but please don't think I didn't understand or read your other posts when it's obvious that I have.

If you wish to discuss any other off topic points with me then feel free to PM them to me instead of our posts taking this thread off topic. That seems to be fair on everyone posting here then.

Back on topic, maybe a few other Three users should also email Three regarding this inclusion of the phone number in email headers? It would definately create a bit of interest at their customer service centre (remember emails go to the UK centre) if they received a few emails from concerned users instead of just the two that we have sent so far (another user did the same as me a few posts back). It may even help them to decide to take a look at this issue and maybe change something??

I have no desire to PM you. If you dont want this to happen in future, dont quote my posts and dont reply. If you reply, I reply. Simple huh?


Your first reply to my post. All wrong.

All email do not include your phone number.

IP addresses DONT allow people to indentify you - they simply allow them to trace the location on the network of said device.

Again you cant trace someone with a phone number! Reverse lookup of mobile numbers isnt possible in the UK!!

Bearing in mind my first post below, posted prior to email headers being pasted, your comments were incorrect - all emails DONT send phone numbers in headers.


Now, lets get back on topic shall we?!

Yes I think we should all email Three and make them know that what I discovered is not acceptable for security reasons.

Fair enough, I was just suggesting that we allow the thread to continue on topic instead of taking it further off topic to discuss this. You don't want to do that fair enough, the offer was there, but keeping on topic is important, I was just trying to do that and still continue this disccusion as it seemed that you had more to say to me and in return I to you. This way we all get what we want and the thread stays on topic without boring others.

I never said they did, I said that all emails contain personal information as I consider IP addresses to be personal information.


An IP can be used in the tracing of someone which could then help identify someone. Admitadly a phone number is easier to call than the process of working out who someone is from their IP address.

As for a reverse lookup of mobile numbers, I have never tried this, but I know how to do a reverse lookup of UK landline numbers (although it could be considered illegal and I don't do it) so it may be possible, I am not sure.


Again, I never said they did.
You also posted another post straight after that one where you commented on personal information being available in email headers. I replied to that one with my comment, so again not incorrect. Please see your posts #21 and #22 and then my response in #23 to #22.

Read the quote in #23 and then my response again and you will see that my post is correct.


It would be a good idea yes.


I have already done this and I know the other poster a few threads up has done the same, anyone else up for it?

You saying I'm boring?

That sounds interesting, more please?


The other poster now I'm deeply offended

You cannot indentify someone from an IP address. It merely serves to identify a device to the network. In addition the IP address listed in Three email headers is NOT your ip address because it isnt static and consequently isnt personal.

Dictionary definition Personal: Of or relating to a particular person.

Since Three dont use static's, it can relate to any person and therefore by that conclusion its obvious that its not personal. Unlike your Three mobile number which is static.

Only Three, could analyse headers, use time and date, plus IP to resolve to your Three phone number(if three phone number wasnt in headers) and extract personal data.

These are facts.

stop bitching you to lalaland and steve

Thankyou, I am humbled and will take note of your constructive post.

erm, no...?


Sorry, it's illegal and as such cannot be discussed on this forum, so I won't



I apologise, next time I will refer to you by name Nodnol

ISPs and similar store this data, meaning that someone can be identified by referencing an IP address against a data and time.

A good example of this method is used by many for tracing offenders on the internet etc.


I would expect Three to log the use of the dynamic IP against a phone number or IMEI or similar at the time of use, but I could be wrong here.


I tried to take our discussion to PM, but never mind. Right, I shall leave it here and continue with this thread on topic as before.

I have not heard from Three yet regarding my email, but they did state it could take up to 10 days to reply so they still have time yet...

It's been like this all day for me today as well its so f***ing annoying!!!! People think i'm pranking them but i'm not i'll be glad when the credits used up so i can sell the phone and get rid of Three once and for all!

So that adds another to my not ever getting again network list:

O2
Three

I already said this in my post today at 21:36:

"Only Three, could analyse headers, use time and date, plus IP to resolve to your Three phone number(if three phone number wasnt in headers) and extract personal data."

However, not everyone who I email has access to Three's network management system.

And strangely I'm not bothered by Three having my Three phone number or personal details!!

99% of people I email are people who I know and trust. However its that 1%.

Its annoying to have to change phone numbers because of crank calls. Whereas someone having my IP address wont invade my privacy or peace and quiet, like an unwanted phone call.