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Old 14-02-2013, 21:21
ivyteainn
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We all need to give Atlantis a fresh look without any reference to Merlin. It's a whole new series with different actors. Those actors don't deserve to have the Merlin albatross around their neck. I hope that Capps and Murphy do a better job with this series, but I will keep my mind positive.
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Old 14-02-2013, 21:27
Shawn_Lunn
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We all need to give Atlantis a fresh look without any reference to Merlin. It's a whole new series with different actors. Those actors don't deserve to have the Merlin albatross around their neck. I hope that Capps and Murphy do a better job with this series, but I will keep my mind positive.
I think this is a fair point.

I intend to look at the show as something new and exciting myself.
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Old 14-02-2013, 21:57
MrsGeneHunt
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Albatross? Merlin was a hugely successful show! Quibbles about aspects of S5 and the ending aside, there's no denying that. Why shouldn't this new show benefit from its association with Merlin?
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Old 14-02-2013, 22:42
Cadiva
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I don't have much opinion about Atlantis as a concept, either way. Ultimately, it'll depend what they do with it. What is disappointing is that, once again, we've got a male lead character.

Particularly in this instance, because unlike Who, Hood, Merlin, etc, there aren't any heroes/characters of either gender immediately associated with Atlantis (outside of Patrick Duffy and Aquaman), so this would have been the perfect opportunity to break the mould,

Technically Poseidon is associated with Atlantis, along with the Titan's Atlas, his twin brother Eumelus and various other twin sons of the Sea God and his mistress Cleito.

In fiction, Stephen Lawhead misappropriates the mythology of Cassandra, (daughter of King Priam of Troy, who was a prophetess who was cursed by Apollo to always tell the truth but never to be believed) and has her named Charis, makes her the daughter of King Avallach and has them escaping the destruction of Atlantis and establishing Avalon.

Albatross? Merlin was a hugely successful show! Quibbles about aspects of S5 and the ending aside, there's no denying that. Why shouldn't this new show benefit from its association with Merlin?
I'm sure it will MrsG. Already the publicity for it is referring to it being by the "creators of Merlin" and I'm sure that will garner it a lot of professional interest from the critics and viewers alike.
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Old 15-02-2013, 05:41
ivyteainn
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Albatross? Merlin was a hugely successful show! Quibbles about aspects of S5 and the ending aside, there's no denying that. Why shouldn't this new show benefit from its association with Merlin?
I think you took my words the wrong way. I didn't mean to imply that Merlin was a bad show. I wouldn't have watched the program for five years if I thought it was bad. I merely don't think that people who are upset with Merlin....and I'm one of them.....should carry their feelings on to Atlantis, which is being produced by Capps and Murphy. Personally, I don't see any linkage between the two shows.
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Old 15-02-2013, 05:56
ivyteainn
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I don't have much opinion about Atlantis as a concept, either way. Ultimately, it'll depend what they do with it. What is disappointing is that, once again, we've got a male lead character.

Particularly in this instance, because unlike Who, Hood, Merlin, etc, there aren't any heroes/characters of either gender immediately associated with Atlantis (outside of Patrick Duffy and Aquaman), so this would have been the perfect opportunity to break the mould,

Most of the Greek heroes and demigods are male. Greek society was very masculine so its legends tend to be so as well. Often times, women are portrayed negatively...Helen leaving for husband for Paris....or Medusa...etc .I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's something that I would expect.

Merlin was largely an "affair between two men". The story centered upon it. Unfortunately, many of women portrayed were evil (Morgause, Morgana, Nimueh etc), but that was in keeping with the legends. If you are going to portray the legends of ancient or medieval times, you are going to get that common denominator.

Having said all of this, I would remind all of you that Capps and Murphy....as much as they vex me .....did introduce a black Guinevere to become the eventual ruler of Camelot. That was a bold and unconventional decision considering Arthurian legend. The very name Guinevere can be translated into white or fair. She was always pictured as blond woman with very light skin. So, they took some steps there..... a female becoming ruler and that fact that she was black.

Despite their faults, Capps and Murphy have been fair with women in key roles. So I would expect the same in Atlantis.
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Old 15-02-2013, 14:33
MikeAP001
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I don't have much opinion about Atlantis as a concept, either way. Ultimately, it'll depend what they do with it. What is disappointing is that, once again, we've got a male lead character.

Particularly in this instance, because unlike Who, Hood, Merlin, etc, there aren't any heroes/characters of either gender immediately associated with Atlantis (outside of Patrick Duffy and Aquaman), so this would have been the perfect opportunity to break the mould,

You forgot, Prince Namor! As for females, there were Namora, Namorita, and Lady Dorma.
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:03
wizzywick
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It is interesting reading comments on these last couple of pages. All I will say is fair play to the BBC for standing by the fantasy genre and for being brave by commissioning 13 episodes of a show that has a huge gap to fill. Bravo! It may be pants but I have a feeling it will be great!
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:06
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It is interesting reading comments on these last couple of pages. All I will say is fair play to the BBC for standing by the fantasy genre and for being brave by commissioning 13 episodes of a show that has a huge gap to fill. Bravo! It may be pants but I have a feeling it will be great!
wizzy! hey where you been?
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:11
wizzywick
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wizzy! hey where you been?
I have been grieving for Arthur and receiving counselling for that "lorry scene". I don't think I'll ever recover!
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:14
star89
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I have been grieving for Arthur and receiving counselling for that "lorry scene". I don't think I'll ever recover!
(((hugs))) I don't think anyone will

Stupid TPTB
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:21
wizzywick
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(((hugs))) I don't think anyone will

Stupid TPTB
But we have to move on.

Interestingly, it was reported on Countryfile last Sunday that according to legend, Merlin lived in a cave not in Camelot! So I have to believe that's what happened! But...............moving on, what are your initial reactions to Atlantis star89? Do you feel good vibes about it? Will it be as successful as Merlin? I'd be interested to learn your opinions.
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Old 15-02-2013, 22:42
star89
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But we have to move on.

Interestingly, it was reported on Countryfile last Sunday that according to legend, Merlin lived in a cave not in Camelot! So I have to believe that's what happened! But...............moving on, what are your initial reactions to Atlantis star89? Do you feel good vibes about it? Will it be as successful as Merlin? I'd be interested to learn your opinions.
Well I'm looking forward to it for more reasons than one. I'm not sure if it will be as successful as Merlin. I think Merlin was more successful than anyone ever thought it would be and IMO that was down to the fans love of the actors. I don't know much about the legends of this so no idea what to expect, everyone knows the King Arthur legend but not everyone knows much about Atlantis.
Interesting that its the same time and episode pattern as Merlin but I assume thats the slot that the BBC want to fill
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:03
Cadiva
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If they hit lucky with the cast as they did with Merlin, then I expect Atlantis is going to be just as successful in this early Saturday evening time slot.
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:26
Horizon
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But we have to move on.

Interestingly, it was reported on Countryfile last Sunday that according to legend, Merlin lived in a cave not in Camelot! So I have to believe that's what happened! But...............moving on, what are your initial reactions to Atlantis star89? Do you feel good vibes about it? Will it be as successful as Merlin? I'd be interested to learn your opinions.
Well it seems to be the same team, almost, that made Merlin based out of BBC Cardiff. We know they can do costumes well, special effects, camera work from multiple angles, pretty much anything and everything you'd see in a hollywood film. So, I think the signs are good.

I'm glad there will be at least one show on British tv that has the imagination to go for something big, rather than the "lets make another Victorian-era drama, or another (yawn) police drama."
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:39
Cadiva
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But we have to move on.

Interestingly, it was reported on Countryfile last Sunday that according to legend, Merlin lived in a cave not in Camelot! So I have to believe that's what happened! But...............moving on, what are your initial reactions to Atlantis star89? Do you feel good vibes about it? Will it be as successful as Merlin? I'd be interested to learn your opinions.
Merlin got trapped in his cave (some legends have it as a tree) by Nimue after he taught her all his magic, hence him never, actually, being around in Camelot as Arthur's tame sorcerer
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Old 15-02-2013, 23:42
star89
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Merlin got trapped in his cave (some legends have it as a tree) by Nimue after he taught her all his magic, hence him never, actually, being around in Camelot as Arthur's tame sorcerer
More proof that hes a useless twit

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Old 16-02-2013, 04:45
Oceanneil
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I wonder whether Jason will have a friend to talk to a guide him?
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Old 16-02-2013, 04:46
Oceanneil
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Gauis sounds a bit greek doesn't it?
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Old 16-02-2013, 05:12
myselfandi
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If they hit lucky with the cast as they did with Merlin, then I expect Atlantis is going to be just as successful in this early Saturday evening time slot.
Murphy and Capps were certainly good at picking the acting talent for 'Merlin' and they'll probably do the same thing here. In my mind, the trick will be to get lightning to strike twice and get two actors that play off of each other as well as Morgan and James.

Gauis sounds a bit greek doesn't it?
I believe it's Roman? Gaius Julius Caesar, for example.
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Old 16-02-2013, 12:10
Ed Sizzers
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Most of the Greek heroes and demigods are male. Greek society was very masculine so its legends tend to be so as well. Often times, women are portrayed negatively...Helen leaving for husband for Paris....or Medusa...etc .I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's something that I would expect.

Merlin was largely an "affair between two men". The story centered upon it. Unfortunately, many of women portrayed were evil (Morgause, Morgana, Nimueh etc), but that was in keeping with the legends. If you are going to portray the legends of ancient or medieval times, you are going to get that common denominator.

Having said all of this, I would remind all of you that Capps and Murphy....as much as they vex me .....did introduce a black Guinevere to become the eventual ruler of Camelot. That was a bold and unconventional decision considering Arthurian legend. The very name Guinevere can be translated into white or fair. She was always pictured as blond woman with very light skin. So, they took some steps there..... a female becoming ruler and that fact that she was black.

Despite their faults, Capps and Murphy have been fair with women in key roles. So I would expect the same in Atlantis.
My point was that, unlike Merlin and Robin Hood, which are obviously legends about those specific individuals, Atlantis is a much broader spectrum to work from. Sure, most heroes then were male, but none that are especially iconic or directly linked with Atlantis, particularly as far as your every-day television viewer goes. 'Jason' certainly isn't. At the end of the say, there was nothing stopping the writers of this show making the lead a female. Well, nothing except that it's the writers/creators of Merlin.

And as for the idea that Merlin was ever fair with women in key roles, even fans of the show don't believe that (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8189/8...5a239bb5_o.jpg) Yes, Guinevere became the ruler of Camelot - but that was simply something that happened to her. With regards to the actual use of the character over the show's five years, I'm not sure 'fair' is a word I'd use.
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Old 16-02-2013, 12:13
Cadiva
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More proof that hes a useless twit

Indeedy

Gauis sounds a bit greek doesn't it?
I believe it's Roman? Gaius Julius Caesar, for example.
Yep, it's got Latin (Etruscan) origins, it's a pronoun and used as a title but is believed to be from the same word as gay (meaning happy) and also has Welsh connections with the version Caius (very common in early Welsh literature) as either Cai or Kay.
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Old 16-02-2013, 16:07
MikeAP001
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My point was that, unlike Merlin and Robin Hood, which are obviously legends about those specific individuals, Atlantis is a much broader spectrum to work from. Sure, most heroes then were male, but none that are especially iconic or directly linked with Atlantis, particularly as far as your every-day television viewer goes. 'Jason' certainly isn't. At the end of the say, there was nothing stopping the writers of this show making the lead a female. Well, nothing except that it's the writers/creators of Merlin.

And as for the idea that Merlin was ever fair with women in key roles, even fans of the show don't believe that (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8189/8...5a239bb5_o.jpg) Yes, Guinevere became the ruler of Camelot - but that was simply something that happened to her. With regards to the actual use of the character over the show's five years, I'm not sure 'fair' is a word I'd use.
But, according to Julian Murphy in the audio commentary for S5e13, the story all along was about Gwen's journey from serving girl to ruler who would lead Camelot to a Golden Age. Arthur and Merlin were just sort of in the show as supporting cast for the true tale of Guinevere and Leon!!
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Old 16-02-2013, 16:53
ivyteainn
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My point was that, unlike Merlin and Robin Hood, which are obviously legends about those specific individuals, Atlantis is a much broader spectrum to work from. Sure, most heroes then were male, but none that are especially iconic or directly linked with Atlantis, particularly as far as your every-day television viewer goes. 'Jason' certainly isn't. At the end of the say, there was nothing stopping the writers of this show making the lead a female. Well, nothing except that it's the writers/creators of Merlin.

And as for the idea that Merlin was ever fair with women in key roles, even fans of the show don't believe that (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8189/8...5a239bb5_o.jpg) Yes, Guinevere became the ruler of Camelot - but that was simply something that happened to her. With regards to the actual use of the character over the show's five years, I'm not sure 'fair' is a word I'd use.
There's no doubt that Morgan and James were their meal ticket, so the producers took full advantage of that to the very end. The viewers watched the show because of them. As a result, Capps and Murphy became somewhat timid in venturing away from that focal point. Maybe that wasn't their original intent, but it ended that way.

The show should have remained a prequel as originally billed. Then there would have never been a sad ending. Maybe the women would have been better utilized. But, once it became a rush to Camlann, the focus shifted almost exclusively to Merlin and Arthur.
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Old 16-02-2013, 17:04
ivyteainn
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I would guess that the story will revolve around Jason and his Argonaut companions. That opens many story lines since Hercules was originally amongst the group. Capps and Murphy will have their own twist on the legends. If Capps and Murphy are anything, they cling to what works. So they probably will look to reestablish a close relationship between two individuals in the story. It might be a change up of a man and woman this time. Both men vex me, but they were good judges of character, so they will look for young talent that will work together smoothly.It will be another five year plan; whether it goes that long will be up to the audience. I'm going to open minded and see what happens and give the new actors a break. I don't think that we have much choice - there is no Merlin.
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