Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Atlantis - Series 1 Discussion/Spoilers/Speculation


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16-02-2013, 19:26
Shawn_Lunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
Posts: 5,837
It is interesting reading comments on these last couple of pages. All I will say is fair play to the BBC for standing by the fantasy genre and for being brave by commissioning 13 episodes of a show that has a huge gap to fill. Bravo! It may be pants but I have a feeling it will be great!
I think we're all hoping it will be great, it's just at times, the writing for Merlin could be a little hit and miss and I'm hoping that Atlantis is more consistent.
Shawn_Lunn is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 16-02-2013, 19:29
Leandra5
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 167
Most of the Greek heroes and demigods are male. Greek society was very masculine so its legends tend to be so as well. Often times, women are portrayed negatively...Helen leaving for husband for Paris....or Medusa...etc .I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's something that I would expect.

Merlin was largely an "affair between two men". The story centered upon it. Unfortunately, many of women portrayed were evil (Morgause, Morgana, Nimueh etc), but that was in keeping with the legends. If you are going to portray the legends of ancient or medieval times, you are going to get that common denominator.
Actually, the medieval Arthurian legends, written in the flowering of the chivalric / courtly love tradition, are full of interesting female characters who have integrity, courage, wit, and compassion. They are often well-developed and sympathetically-portrayed characters, albeit rarely the chief protagonist. I would even say that Capps' and Murphy's story is on the whole much less charitable to its female characters than the medieval legends that I've read.

I do agree that Greek literature is predominately masculine, but there are still compelling characters like Ariadne, Penelope, Cassandra. It's just that they nearly always have tragic endings... If they have Jason in this version, then presumably they will also have a Medea: the sorceress who falls in love with him, aids him, and is eventually abandoned by him. It's not a happy ending, but that might be right up their alley.
Leandra5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 20:08
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 10,586
Actually, the medieval Arthurian legends, written in the flowering of the chivalric / courtly love tradition, are full of interesting female characters who have integrity, courage, wit, and compassion. They are often well-developed and sympathetically-portrayed characters, albeit rarely the chief protagonist. I would even say that Capps' and Murphy's story is on the whole much less charitable to its female characters than the medieval legends that I've read.
Even the medieval versions of the legends portray their women as flawed though, whether they have interesting character traits or not. Morgause/Morgan le Fay is just as manipulative and conniving as in the earlier interpretations, Elaine of Astolat is depicted as dying because she's rejected and betrayed by Lancelot, Guinevere also can't resist him and is also depicted as being jealous that Lancelot has had "relations" with other women, Nimue is duplicitous and tricks Merlin into giving up his secrets before turning on him, the Lady of the Lake steals Lancelot from his real mother and then brings up Galahad.
Lady Ragnell, in the Sir Gwaine mythology, is probably the most rounded of all the characters and even she's trapped inside the body of a hideous crone for most of the tale
Cadiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 20:21
Leandra5
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 167
Even the medieval versions of the legends portray their women as flawed though, whether they have interesting character traits or not. Morgause/Morgan le Fay is just as manipulative and conniving as in the earlier interpretations, Elaine of Astolat is depicted as dying because she's rejected and betrayed by Lancelot, Guinevere also can't resist him and is also depicted as being jealous that Lancelot has had "relations" with other women, Nimue is duplicitous and tricks Merlin into giving up his secrets before turning on him, the Lady of the Lake steals Lancelot from his real mother and then brings up Galahad.
Lady Ragnell, in the Sir Gwaine mythology, is probably the most rounded of all the characters and even she's trapped inside the body of a hideous crone for most of the tale
Which versions are you referring to, Cadiva?

I have in mind the twelfth and thirteenth-century romances, that were written at the height of the chivalric / courtly-love tradition, in particular Chretien de Troyes and Wolfram von Eschenbach. I highly recommend Wolfram especially for his host of magnificent female characters. Literally, at least a dozen of them, each one a unique individual, and admirable in her own right. They are often more vivid and sympathetic than the heroes. Of course there are villainness' in these stories as well, but my point is that there is a genuine balance here - considerably more so, I have to say, than one finds in MERLIN.

By the time you get to Malory it all changes, but Malory is a terrible pessimist on the subject of human nature, and all his characters (both men and women) suffer for it. (Not surprisingly, perhaps, since many scholars believe he was himself a rather notorious criminal.)

Lady Ragnell, yes... I always thought they needed a "The Wedding of Sir Gawain" episode. It would have been fantastic. Gawain is the most courteous of knights in most stories, and since this Gwaine starts out a bit counter-culture, it would have been interesting to see how he became "reformed" into a model of courtesy and chivalry.
Leandra5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 20:50
starsailor
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,742
No offence but can we kind of limit the Merlin chat if possible? Yes it might be by the same people, but the source legends are very different, and similarities between the shows will be superficial or limited to style I'm sure

On the show itself they have a huge range of things to draw on, and could take it so many places
starsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 20:58
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 10,586
Which versions are you referring to, Cadiva?

I have in mind the twelfth and thirteenth-century romances, that were written at the height of the chivalric / courtly-love tradition, in particular Chretien de Troyes and Wolfram von Eschenbach. I highly recommend Wolfram especially for his host of magnificent female characters. Literally, at least a dozen of them, each one a unique individual, and admirable in her own right. They are often more vivid and sympathetic than the heroes. Of course there are villainness' in these stories as well, but my point is that there is a genuine balance here - considerably more so, I have to say, than one finds in MERLIN.

By the time you get to Malory it all changes, but Malory is a terrible pessimist on the subject of human nature, and all his characters (both men and women) suffer for it. (Not surprisingly, perhaps, since many scholars believe he was himself a rather notorious criminal.)

Lady Ragnell, yes... I always thought they needed a "The Wedding of Sir Gawain" episode. It would have been fantastic. Gawain is the most courteous of knights in most stories, and since this Gwaine starts out a bit counter-culture, it would have been interesting to see how he became "reformed" into a model of courtesy and chivalry.
All of the Vulgate Cycle for starters, plus the Post-Vulgate works, the Alliterative Morte Arthure (mostly based on Monmouth), Monmouth himself, Wade's Brut, Malory obviously

Chretien de Troyes versions are, imho, not really "true" Arthurian mythology, although obviously they are included now and were one of Malory's sources.
He wrote them specifically to mirror the ideals of Chivalric love and as a paean to the daughter of the King of France, so they're all a bit flowery and only really touch on the "original" Arthurian legends in the losest sense. Arthur's most often sidelined in his version and it's all about Lancelot and the search for the Holy Grail. He's the one who really cements the adultery of Guinevere and Lancelot into the legend and I've never really forgiven him for that either!

Sorry, fraid he's absolutely my least favourite of all the Arthurian writers although I think Wolfram von Eschenbach's slightly better, although he focusses more on the story of Sir Percival than that of Arthur himself.
Cadiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 21:01
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 10,586
No offence but can we kind of limit the Merlin chat if possible? Yes it might be by the same people, but the source legends are very different, and similarities between the shows will be superficial or limited to style I'm sure

On the show itself they have a huge range of things to draw on, and could take it so many places
I don't think it's off topic, the shows are made by the same people, using mostly the same crew and are "re-examining the legends for a modern audience" which is pretty much the same thing they did with Merlin.
Unlike Arthurian mythology, the Greek myths don't have hundreds of different versions so it will be interesting to see how they mix it up and "reinterpret" the story of Atlantis. As they've already shoved Jason into the plot line, I suspect they're going to be as fast and free with mythology in general as they were in Merlin.
Cadiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 21:22
MrsGeneHunt
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,851
No offence but can we kind of limit the Merlin chat if possible?
The problem is, so far we know very little about the new show... other than that it's by the Merlin team! So comparisons are inevitable. Don't worry - once filming starts I'm sure the focus will be more on Atlantis.
MrsGeneHunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 21:45
Shawn_Lunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
Posts: 5,837
The problem is, so far we know very little about the new show... other than that it's by the Merlin team! So comparisons are inevitable. Don't worry - once filming starts I'm sure the focus will be more on Atlantis.
Oh absolutely and if filming starts in April, then it shouldn't be too long before casting is announced as well.
Shawn_Lunn is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 11:55
L.B.
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
Oh absolutely and if filming starts in April, then it shouldn't be too long before casting is announced as well.
Talking of casting, Ive been watching World Without End and thought Tom Weston-Jones was excellent. I think hed make a good addition to the Atlantis cast.
L.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 13:02
Corwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,599
Talking of casting, Ive been watching World Without End and thought Tom Weston-Jones was excellent. I think hed make a good addition to the Atlantis cast.
He's the lead in the BBC America show Copper and while it's only a 10 -12 episode show he probably would not have time to also be a main character in a second 13 episode show.
Corwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 14:06
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 10,586
He's the lead in the BBC America show Copper and while it's only a 10 -12 episode show he probably would not have time to also be a main character in a second 13 episode show.
Aye, specially if Atlantis follows the Merlin pattern and films for eight months of the year.
Cadiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 15:10
vicky2424
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On a sticky wicket probably
Posts: 4,620
Aye, specially if Atlantis follows the Merlin pattern and films for eight months of the year.
Plus they've just started filming the second series of Copper and won't be finished by April
vicky2424 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 16:25
hippydex1
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 11
Source: http://www.sfx.co.uk...-bbcs-atlantis/

Much as I'm intrigued by this, I do hope it avoids the same narrative missteps that Merlin was guilty of at times.
Which Jason? If it's Jason of the Argonauts, then they're messing the Greek Myths around again. The Argo never went anywhere near Atlantis. Nor did Odysseus on his way back from Troy. So which Jason is this?
hippydex1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 16:44
moleymo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,225
I'd love for Alex to get a main role on the show they would be crazy not to offer him one seeing as he's a great actor and he's implied that he would have been up,for more merlin
moleymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 18:07
Cadiva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 10,586
Which Jason? If it's Jason of the Argonauts, then they're messing the Greek Myths around again. The Argo never went anywhere near Atlantis. Nor did Odysseus on his way back from Troy. So which Jason is this?
I mentioned this earlier (although I think it might have been in the Merlin thread), fairly sure it's supposed to be the Jason.
Cadiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 18:24
ivyteainn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 484
He's the lead in the BBC America show Copper and while it's only a 10 -12 episode show he probably would not have time to also be a main character in a second 13 episode show.
I would think that they would choose a very young man to be Jason in keeping with their past experiences with Merlin and Arthur. It may be someone without a great deal of experience since they seem to perfer to be able to do their thing without trouble.
ivyteainn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 18:28
ivyteainn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 484
Which Jason? If it's Jason of the Argonauts, then they're messing the Greek Myths around again. The Argo never went anywhere near Atlantis. Nor did Odysseus on his way back from Troy. So which Jason is this?
They may start show before the Golden Fleece expedition. Capps and Murphy play fast and loose with legends anyhow.

Atlantis has been placed in many places by one theory or another. If it existed, it may have been in the Aegean itself and destroyed by a tidal wave of some type. But Capps and Murphy will place it wherever they choose to.
ivyteainn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 18:34
wizzywick
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 16,409
They may start show before the Golden Fleece expedition. Capps and Murphy play fast and loose with legends anyhow.

Atlantis has been placed in many places by one theory or another. If it existed, it may have been in the Aegean itself and destroyed by a tidal wave of some type. But Capps and Murphy will place it wherever they choose to.
Exactly. And considering what the writers of "Robin Hood" and the team behind "Merlin" did with these two infamous English legends, I think that it matters not that the Greek myths may be played around with. After all, their job is to entertain, not educate. And, these are "myths and legends" anyway, so there are no historical facts to adhere to.
wizzywick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 19:17
artero
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,130
herodatus stated Atlantis was beyond the pillars of Hercules (the entranceway to the Med) and was was said to predate the Greek Myth era. Having Jason (of Argonaut fame) being the main hero of a series about Atlantis is as daft as Xena Warrior princess.

If you're going to do an Atlantis story why drag the Greek Myths into it, unless you're working off the premise that Greek myths themselves were based on the 'true stories' of Atlantis...
artero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 19:32
wizzywick
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 16,409
herodatus stated Atlantis was beyond the pillars of Hercules (the entranceway to the Med) and was was said to predate the Greek Myth era. Having Jason (of Argonaut fame) being the main hero of a series about Atlantis is as daft as Xena Warrior princess.

If you're going to do an Atlantis story why drag the Greek Myths into it, unless you're working off the premise that Greek myths themselves were based on the 'true stories' of Atlantis...
Has it actually been confirmed that it is based on the "Jason and the Argonauts" myth? If not, it's all speculation. If it is, then oh well. It is a fantasy series (of which British TV has very little of), created to bring magic and a bit of escapism into dark Autumn nights. If people stopped being over analytical and just watched without prejudice, TV shows may be the more enjoyable for it!
wizzywick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 19:40
Shawn_Lunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
Posts: 5,837
Which Jason? If it's Jason of the Argonauts, then they're messing the Greek Myths around again. The Argo never went anywhere near Atlantis. Nor did Odysseus on his way back from Troy. So which Jason is this?
It's that Jason from what sources seem to indicate so far.
Shawn_Lunn is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 19:42
Shawn_Lunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
Posts: 5,837
I'd love for Alex to get a main role on the show they would be crazy not to offer him one seeing as he's a great actor and he's implied that he would have been up,for more merlin
He was brilliant as Mordred in Series 5, so it'd be nice to see him in this.

Not sure if I see him as Jason though but I could see him in the show if that makes sense.
Shawn_Lunn is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 20:06
artero
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,130
Has it actually been confirmed that it is based on the "Jason and the Argonauts" myth? If not, it's all speculation. If it is, then oh well. It is a fantasy series (of which British TV has very little of), created to bring magic and a bit of escapism into dark Autumn nights. If people stopped being over analytical and just watched without prejudice, TV shows may be the more enjoyable for it!
That's fine, but if you're going to do a series about Atlantis make it totally original, don't just re-package the greek myths. If you want to re-package the greek myths do that, but don't throw Julius Ceasar in there, or make Odyseuss a woman...
artero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2013, 20:59
wizzywick
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 16,409
That's fine, but if you're going to do a series about Atlantis make it totally original, don't just re-package the greek myths. If you want to re-package the greek myths do that, but don't throw Julius Ceasar in there, or make Odyseuss a woman...
Is Odyseuss going to be a woman? Is Caesar going to be in it?
wizzywick is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56.