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Doc Martin (Part 15 Spoilers)


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Old 24-02-2013, 19:21
NewPark
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In a situation like that (shooting exterior shots) they don't send a large crew. They send a photog, maybe a sound guy (if needed) and an associate producer or some other kind of flunky. They shoot this stuff on disk/other computer storage media. The days of film are gone except for Hollywood and the age of video tape as an industry standard is at the same age as the Dinosaurs were about a day before the asteroid hit the Gulf of Mexico.

The place where I work quit using videotape as a broadcast standard as of 1/1/13. We are tapeless and all computer run with 100 petabytes of server storage and 10 XDCAM disk recorder/players now.
I think that Martin Clunes was bragging on his Desert Isles disk interview that he was very proud of the cinematic qualities of Doc Martin because they were one of the last productions in the business to use film. I think you can tell the difference between the quality of the last episode of S2 and the "On the Edge" which was the Christmas episode. Maybe someone else remembers this better.
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Old 24-02-2013, 19:22
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Working on the locations for S5, I just discovered that the church used for the funeral was not the same church used for the interior filming.

This intrigues me. Why would they haul such a large cast down to the far reaches of Cornwall just to film the exterior shots of that church? There are so many closer ones they could have used. Martin, Louisa, AR, Bert, Al, Joe, funeral director & his son are all there. Not to mention AR's car, Bert's van, Joe's police jeep and probably Martin's Lexus. All that way just for those exterior shots?

Now to try to find the church for the interiors. They have pretty distinctive windows, so I am hopeful..............
Ah ha! Nice try Johnny Bamford, but I outsmarted you!

The interior was shot in St Genny's Church in Crackington Haven, which is up the coast north of Port Isaac. They couldn't have set the exterior and interior of the church further away and still be in Cornwall if they tried. Check the locations on this map:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35584579@N00/8503664233/
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Old 24-02-2013, 20:24
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I think that Martin Clunes was bragging on his Desert Isles disk interview that he was very proud of the cinematic qualities of Doc Martin because they were one of the last productions in the business to use film. I think you can tell the difference between the quality of the last episode of S2 and the "On the Edge" which was the Christmas episode. Maybe someone else remembers this better.
Yes they use film. That's why you can see the glint of tears I'm MCs eyes at emotional times. Colours look deeper and truer too, apparently.
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Old 24-02-2013, 20:27
Adelie Manchot
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I think that Martin Clunes was bragging on his Desert Isles disk interview that he was very proud of the cinematic qualities of Doc Martin because they were one of the last productions in the business to use film. I think you can tell the difference between the quality of the last episode of S2 and the "On the Edge" which was the Christmas episode. Maybe someone else remembers this better.
If so they must like spending alot more than necessary on producing the show and having it converted from film to a digital media format for editing and broadcast. No one uses film for broadcast anymore (unless it is someplace like Uganda) and would not accept the show on that format for air. The show would have to be delivered to ITV in a format they can use for broadcast. ITV has a Miranda iTX equipped master control so I am guessing it would have to be delivered on something like Digibeta at the very least (and very old) broadcast format for an SD production or HDCAM or HDCAM SR (a format that is 10 years old-100 years old in broadcast years) for an HD production.
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Old 24-02-2013, 20:48
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If so they must like spending alot more than necessary on producing the show and having it converted from film to a digital media format for editing and broadcast. No one uses film for broadcast anymore (unless it is someplace like Uganda) and would not accept the show on that format for air. The show would have to be delivered to ITV in a format they can use for broadcast. ITV has a Miranda iTX equipped master control so I am guessing it would have to be delivered on something like Digibeta at the very least (and very old) broadcast format for an SD production or HDCAM or HDCAM SR (a format that is 10 years old-100 years old in broadcast years) for an HD production.
On several occasions Martin Clunes has talked about how the show uses film. It is apparently an important aesthetic for him.
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Old 24-02-2013, 20:57
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Ambulances won't help. The problem is at the hospital level. Anyone who knows what is happening in the UK with the NHS knows this. Here is an article explaing the situation-Hospitals 'full to bursting' as bed shortage hits danger level. You can do a search on this subject and you will find plenty of articles that echo its sentiments.

Here is what the Royal College of Surgeons thinks-High NHS hospital bed occupancy remains a big infection risk, says RCS

In case neither you or cc.cookie are aware of some of the 'fun' going on at NHS hospitals here is an example-NHS targets 'may have led to 1,200 deaths' in Mid-Staffordshire

In this chart 16.4% of admissions were for short stay emergency, day cases and conditions that should have been treated elsewhere. Cases that could be triaged out to the type of clinic I premised.

What you and cc.cookie premise is to keep on shoving more patients at already filled to bursting hospitals. What I premised is to establish clinics in outlying areas where people could go to get their sniffles and sore throats taken care of along with other minor proceedures that are not emergencies and do not require overnight hospitalization. Someone like Louisa's mum in this instance would not have had to go to hospital-the only reason why she was sent was that, despite the fact that the surgeon was more than capable of doing it and did it well, her hernia surgery was preformed 'rough' in a place without proper facilites such as a sterile operating theatre. That kind of surgery (a simple heria fix without any complications to it and patient has no other health problems) would be done at an satellite outpatient clinic of one of the major hospitals where I live.

Location, convenience and quality of care would make people rely on the local clinic as their first choice for care instead of automatically running off to the hospital-I know that it has changed the mentality of "OMG, we have to go to the hospital to get that [insert name of minor problem here] treated" where I live. Now almost everyone goes to the clinics first and either the problem gets fixed there or they get referred onto the hospital if it is something that needs to be done there. This would go a long way to take the load off the hospitals plus save money for the NHS in the long run because the overall cost of care would drop-there is alot less overhead costs at a clinic than at a hospital. The costs your scheme would engender by buying more ambulances, staffing them and paying for their operation (seen the price of gas lately?) could be better used elsewhere.
Thank you for your insights into the NHS. As an American I am unfamiliar with the current situation with the British healthcare system. Therefore I am glad that DM is a TV show that can make time and distance issues disappear. And no matter the medical decisions Martin Ellingham makes about surgery or no-surgery, no British citizen's actual healthcare has been or will be compromised. Since it's a television show.
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Old 24-02-2013, 21:07
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Ah ha! Nice try Johnny Bamford, but I outsmarted you!

The interior was shot in St Genny's Church in Crackington Haven, which is up the coast north of Port Isaac. They couldn't have set the exterior and interior of the church further away and still be in Cornwall if they tried. Check the locations on this map:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35584579@N00/8503664233/
I just took a look at the map and all I can say is
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Old 24-02-2013, 22:29
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Thank you for your insights into the NHS. As an American I am unfamiliar with the current situation with the British healthcare system. Therefore I am glad that DM is a TV show that can make time and distance issues disappear. And no matter the medical decisions Martin Ellingham makes about surgery or no-surgery, no British citizen's actual healthcare has been or will be compromised. Since it's a television show.
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Old 24-02-2013, 22:31
Adelie Manchot
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On several occasions Martin Clunes has talked about how the show uses film. It is apparently an important aesthetic for him.
The thing that most never remember is that television is the only industry where the expression "Time is Money" is really, really true. Another thing people tend to forget is that they are not producing a movie for theatrical release-they are producing a television series.

Bear the above in mind while reading the following.

My point is that producing it on film makes cost of producing the series much higher-up to 50 times higher per minute broadcast. Those costs need to be paid for by someone and if passed on to ITV that may be one reason why they were balking at a series 6-the price they had to pay per episode vs. the revenue generated per episode was lower then they desired.

If they are not passing on the cost to ITV that means they are making alot less for that program then they could. Aesthetics come at a price-a big one. That is their choice but it isn't a very logical one for a guy who has stated more than once either overtly or subtlety that his farm is expensive and is worried about finances and lack of work.

Add all of the above to the fact that film can be all sorts of wonderful but anything that is on film will be converted to a digital video format to be broadcast so whatever 'advantages' that there may be go by the wayside. It then all comes down to the person who does the actual conversion as to what remains and what is lost. No matter what you are converting an analog medium into a digital medium so you are not going to see what it 'truly' looked like on film unless you actually watch it on film. How many of you have a 35mm projector around and would pay a couple hundred dollars/pounds/euros/whatever to buy one episode of the show and watch it on film for the aesthetics? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands! I thought so....None of you would trade your computers, iPad/Kindle/Android tablets, HDTV and streaming video/DVD/Bluray in for a clunky projector, build a proper screening room and a couple miles of film.

As a side point to this discussion you are aware that more and more theatrical released films are being shot in HDTV and downconverted to film, right? Why you ask? It saves many millions of dollars in production costs and the HDTV cameras and recording medium they are using exceed the capabilities of film and film cameras.
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Old 24-02-2013, 22:47
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Ah ha! Nice try Johnny Bamford, but I outsmarted you!

The interior was shot in St Genny's Church in Crackington Haven, which is up the coast north of Port Isaac. They couldn't have set the exterior and interior of the church further away and still be in Cornwall if they tried. Check the locations on this map:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35584579@N00/8503664233/

It is a mystery--the funeral church was in a pretty setting but so was the church to be used for the DM/LG (non) wedding and it would have provided some continuity (family church and all that). Maybe the location wouldn't have worked for the interchange between DM and the funeral director.

I have a picture of the interior of the funeral church. When I was there, I presumed the interior was the one used because the geometry and the general feel of the church corresponded to the filming--entry at the side, etc. But I'd seen the episode a couple of months before and certainly didn't remember the precise details--window configuration, crucifix behind the pulpit etc. (The only thing that had confused me when I visited was where the parking was--there is a parking lot which clearly hadn't been used. The panoramic view at the beginning of episode 2 (re-watched after the trip) answered that question. I would attach my picture of the interior (or link to it) if I knew how.

From the picture of the St. Genny's interior which I found on line (and which took me a while to find) the interior was indisputedly filmed there.

How did you find that the filming was done at St. Genny? That is pretty amazing detective work.
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Old 24-02-2013, 22:54
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In a situation like that (shooting exterior shots) they don't send a large crew. They send a photog, maybe a sound guy (if needed) and an associate producer or some other kind of flunky. They shoot this stuff on disk/other computer storage media. The days of film are gone except for Hollywood and the age of video tape as an industry standard is at the same age as the Dinosaurs were about a day before the asteroid hit the Gulf
Are you saying that the actors may not have had to be present when exterior shots were filmed of the church? That the actors could have been in front of a blue screen, for example, then the church shots were added in digitally?
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Old 24-02-2013, 23:19
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Thank you for your insights into the NHS. As an American I am unfamiliar with the current situation with the British healthcare system. Therefore I am glad that DM is a TV show that can make time and distance issues disappear. And no matter the medical decisions Martin Ellingham makes about surgery or no-surgery, no British citizen's actual healthcare has been or will be compromised. Since it's a television show.
Hear, Hear ( from a UK resident )
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Old 24-02-2013, 23:27
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The thing that most never remember is that television is the only industry where the expression "Time is Money" is really, really true. Another thing people tend to forget is that they are not producing a movie for theatrical release-they are producing a television series.

Bear the above in mind while reading the following.

My point is that producing it on film makes cost of producing the series much higher-up to 50 times higher per minute broadcast. Those costs need to be paid for by someone and if passed on to ITV that may be one reason why they were balking at a series 6-the price they had to pay per episode vs. the revenue generated per episode was lower then they desired.

If they are not passing on the cost to ITV that means they are making alot less for that program then they could. Aesthetics come at a price-a big one. That is their choice but it isn't a very logical one for a guy who has stated more than once either overtly or subtlety that his farm is expensive and is worried about finances and lack of work.

Add all of the above to the fact that film can be all sorts of wonderful but anything that is on film will be converted to a digital video format to be broadcast so whatever 'advantages' that there may be go by the wayside. It then all comes down to the person who does the actual conversion as to what remains and what is lost. No matter what you are converting an analog medium into a digital medium so you are not going to see what it 'truly' looked like on film unless you actually watch it on film. How many of you have a 35mm projector around and would pay a couple hundred dollars/pounds/euros/whatever to buy one episode of the show and watch it on film for the aesthetics? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands! I thought so....None of you would trade your computers, iPad/Kindle/Android tablets, HDTV and streaming video/DVD/Bluray in for a clunky projector, build a proper screening room and a couple miles of film.

As a side point to this discussion you are aware that more and more theatrical released films are being shot in HDTV and downconverted to film, right? Why you ask? It saves many millions of dollars in production costs and the HDTV cameras and recording medium they are using exceed the capabilities of film and film cameras.
Then indeed, this is all very mysterious.

Can you tell anything from the kind of cameras they are using? I think you can see the cameras in some of the pictures that fans took (which are on the docmartinonline.net site).

Was the earthquake scene that opens S2 shot on some kind of green screen?

Also, what do you make of the noticeable difference between On the Edge and the other seasons. On the Edge looks very washed out to me comparatively, and it seems like some different technique must have been used.
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Old 24-02-2013, 23:28
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It is a mystery--the funeral church was in a pretty setting but so was the church to be used for the DM/LG (non) wedding and it would have provided some continuity (family church and all that). Maybe the location wouldn't have worked for the interchange between DM and the funeral director.

I have a picture of the interior of the funeral church. When I was there, I presumed the interior was the one used because the geometry and the general feel of the church corresponded to the filming--entry at the side, etc. But I'd seen the episode a couple of months before and certainly didn't remember the precise details--window configuration, crucifix behind the pulpit etc. (The only thing that had confused me when I visited was where the parking was--there is a parking lot which clearly hadn't been used. The panoramic view at the beginning of episode 2 (re-watched after the trip) answered that question. I would attach my picture of the interior (or link to it) if I knew how.

From the picture of the St. Genny's interior which I found on line (and which took me a while to find) the interior was indisputedly filmed there.

How did you find that the filming was done at St. Genny? That is pretty amazing detective work.
Interesting that you mention the non-wedding church, because that is another church where they used different churches for the exterior and interior. I had not even considered that possibility, but I was looking for another location and ran across an item online about the church in a town being used for the wedding. This wasn't the church that I had identified as the wedding church, so I did some more investigating and looking at the exterior and interior scenes and found that they were actually filmed at different churches. The exterior was filmed at St Julitta Church near Camelford (NE of Port Isaac) and the interiors were in St Mabyn Church in St Mabyn (S of Port Isaac). Here are my 2 slides showing the churches:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3558457...7632629134824/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3558457...7632629134824/

I'm getting better at searching this stuff out. This morning I was doing some general church and church window searching for "Cornwall Churches" and ran across a site I had seen previously that has links to a whole lot of Cornwall churches. Each one takes you to a page with 4 or 5 thumbnails and usually include the nave and the pulpit. I knew what I was looking for in the pulpit, the stained glass window behind the altar and the windows along the side of the church, so that's what I was looking for. Even the ones that only showed the exterior of the churches were valuable because I was looking for specific designs in the windows. Saving that site for identification of another wedding church in S6

I was listening to something recently about how Netflix knows what shows we watch with their service and how often we watch them. I have been chuckling every time I pull up an episode because I have probably pulled up each episode at least several dozens of times and gone to one scene to check something out or get a screenshot. The Netflix app on the iPad is cool because you grab the slider with your finger and can quickly scroll through the whole episode looking for the scene you want - a little window opens up above the slider and shows the scenes as you drag your finger across. I'll bet I have the Netflix computers totally flummoxed.
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Old 25-02-2013, 00:02
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Those costs need to be paid for by someone and if passed on to ITV that may be one reason why they were balking at a series 6-the price they had to pay per episode vs. the revenue generated per episode was lower then they desired.

.
Just curious -- I had thought that it was Martin Clunes who was balking at S6 but are you saying that it was actually ITV who were holding out?
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Old 25-02-2013, 03:32
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The Australian Broadcasting Commission (ABC public TV) who buys Doc Martin in Australia will accept film productions but will convert them to digital video format. Pretty easy to do. The guy I spoke to said that the conversion is "pretty damn good" and you will get a better picture with film when it is converted than if it is originally shot on video.
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Old 25-02-2013, 04:35
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Was the earthquake scene that opens S2 shot on some kind of green screen?
Call me Sergeant Schultz in this discussion because I "know nothink, nothink at all".

But, here's a link to the Footprint Scenery website where you can see the Doc's living room, kitchen, a few other sets, and the set/equipment used for the earthquake scene. There's a very brief description that includes the words, "blue screen", but not much more.

http://footprintscenery.co.uk/doc-martin
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Old 25-02-2013, 11:27
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Originally Posted by Shop Girl

I was listening to something recently about how Netflix knows what shows we watch with their service and how often we watch them. I have been chuckling every time I pull up an episode because I have probably pulled up each episode at least several dozens of times and gone to one scene to check something out or get a screenshot. The Netflix app on the iPad is cool because you grab the slider with your finger and can quickly scroll through the whole episode looking for the scene you want - a little window opens up above the slider and shows the scenes as you drag your finger across. I'll bet I have the Netflix computers totally flummoxed.
Speed viewer?
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Old 25-02-2013, 14:11
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does anyone else notice that often or maybe usually when DM asks Mrs. Tishell for something specific, it's something that might bring a snigger? in this episode it's "suppositories" -- in S5 it's a bagful of pessaries -- in another episode it's for an anti-fungal, leading to a joke about itching "down there."

And to say nothing of the "give us a moment, Nigel" scene. Or the non-procreating couple at the dance.

I think i know whose mind is at work here.
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Old 25-02-2013, 14:39
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Ambulances won't help. The problem is at the hospital level. Anyone who knows what is happening in the UK with the NHS knows this. Here is an article explaing the situation-Hospitals 'full to bursting' as bed shortage hits danger level. You can do a search on this subject and you will find plenty of articles that echo its sentiments.

Here is what the Royal College of Surgeons thinks-High NHS hospital bed occupancy remains a big infection risk, says RCS

In case neither you or cc.cookie are aware of some of the 'fun' going on at NHS hospitals here is an example-NHS targets 'may have led to 1,200 deaths' in Mid-Staffordshire

In this chart 16.4% of admissions were for short stay emergency, day cases and conditions that should have been treated elsewhere. Cases that could be triaged out to the type of clinic I premised.

What you and cc.cookie premise is to keep on shoving more patients at already filled to bursting hospitals. What I premised is to establish clinics in outlying areas where people could go to get their sniffles and sore throats taken care of along with other minor proceedures that are not emergencies and do not require overnight hospitalization. Someone like Louisa's mum in this instance would not have had to go to hospital-the only reason why she was sent was that, despite the fact that the surgeon was more than capable of doing it and did it well, her hernia surgery was preformed 'rough' in a place without proper facilites such as a sterile operating theatre. That kind of surgery (a simple heria fix without any complications to it and patient has no other health problems) would be done at an satellite outpatient clinic of one of the major hospitals where I live.

Location, convenience and quality of care would make people rely on the local clinic as their first choice for care instead of automatically running off to the hospital-I know that it has changed the mentality of "OMG, we have to go to the hospital to get that [insert name of minor problem here] treated" where I live. Now almost everyone goes to the clinics first and either the problem gets fixed there or they get referred onto the hospital if it is something that needs to be done there. This would go a long way to take the load off the hospitals plus save money for the NHS in the long run because the overall cost of care would drop-there is alot less overhead costs at a clinic than at a hospital. The costs your scheme would engender by buying more ambulances, staffing them and paying for their operation (seen the price of gas lately?) could be better used elsewhere.
I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the NHS. In the US we have folks without insurance going to the hospital all the time as they have to treat everyone who walks in. That is good, of course in the one hand, but can make for a clogged experience. On the other hand, not many PW folks over five seasons have had to go to the hospital, and of those who did, they really needed to--Peter Cronk, Mrs. Cronk, LG's mom (that was not a regular hernia, that was a strangulated one--definitely needed hospitalization), Delph Lane, Holly, Roger Fenn, etc.

And, they do need more ambulances, so it does not take 45 minutes to get to PW to pick up an injured or sick person. Local ambulance service would be helpful for those in acute need.

A GP is able to see the sniffles, pneumonias, strep throats, and most chronic conditions (Diabetes, CHF, etc) all of that and also do minor surgery, too. Heck, DM even injects VEGF into macular degeneration eyes and saves the life of a person with a deadly tension pneumothorax. He is already as super handy as a GP--much more handy than me!

But, now you are asking the NHS to have a whole clinic paying for many more docs in a very small place with few customers. I'm not sure there would be a "lot less cost". You need all the same supplies, insurance, salaries, you need receptionists, nurses, doctors, janitors, etc. It would add up. And, most hospitals in the US, of course, set up satellite clinics very near to the hospital, to get patients out of the ED, but close by for evaluation. So, it would make sense for Truro Hospital to have a clinic or so near it, but not out in the PW boondocks.

Or, those type of smaller but very functional clinics in the US are privately owned by a group of physicians/surgeons. I doubt DM wants to do that with his own money!
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Old 25-02-2013, 16:23
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I noticed that in S5, E7, when DM operated on Eleanor, he did actually have "surgical packs" conveniently at hand. I wonder if the general GPs' writ extends to reducing fractures, emergency Caesareans, appendectomies, tonsillectomies, hernias, etc. Or if the provision of these supplies was a magical Portwenn effect.

Wasn't there something in olden times called the cottage hospital -- with a few beds, the local GP being basically the attending physician, also doing there some minor elective surgery, etc.?
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:19
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I noticed that in S5, E7, when DM operated on Eleanor, he did actually have "surgical packs" conveniently at hand. I wonder if the general GPs' writ extends to reducing fractures, emergency Caesareans, appendectomies, tonsillectomies, hernias, etc. Or if the provision of these supplies was a magical Portwenn effect.

Wasn't there something in olden times called the cottage hospital -- with a few beds, the local GP being basically the attending physician, also doing there some minor elective surgery, etc.?
Another reason this might work is that a big problem isn't just getting the doctor to the Truro hospital, it's the patients. DM has his own reliable transport, so he's not concerned with getting there. However, most of the people of the smaller villages don't.

AJ said going to truro for a scan would take the entire day, a day alot of working people don't have to spend. Plus if you live and work in a small village, you might not have a car or only have a bike like Pauline. Louisa could afford taxis to truro, but I doubt the average citizen could (and she was still planning on taking most of the day to do it). How many people go without or have minor procedures done by local GPs because they can't get to the hospital. I am reminded of Bert's speech to DM is S1 where he pointed out that even going to Wadebridge, which is 10 miles down the road, can be difficult.

i don't think you need a fully staffed hospital for an area like PW. It could be staffed by just the GP/SUR and a nurse. Say if someone like Pauline were there as a nurse and DM as the doc, they could treat the smaller villages for all sorts of minor surgeries and emergencies. You would still have to go to Truro for major operations and anything that wasn't outpatient.

I do think this would mean turning the cottage into a full surgery and not a partial residence...but hopefully this is already in the planning as that place would be cramped with a toddler running around.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:32
Shop Girl
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Another reason this might work is that a big problem isn't just getting the doctor to the Truro hospital, it's the patients. DM has his own reliable transport, so he's not concerned with getting there. However, most of the people of the smaller villages don't.

AJ said going to truro for a scan would take the entire day, a day alot of working people don't have to spend. Plus if you live and work in a small village, you might not have a car or only have a bike like Pauline. Louisa could afford taxis to truro, but I doubt the average citizen could (and she was still planning on taking most of the day to do it). How many people go without or have minor procedures done by local GPs because they can't get to the hospital. I am reminded of Bert's speech to DM is S1 where he pointed out that even going to Wadebridge, which is 10 miles down the road, can be difficult.

i don't think you need a fully staffed hospital for an area like PW. It could be staffed by just the GP/SUR and a nurse. Say if someone like Pauline were there as a nurse and DM as the doc, they could treat the smaller villages for all sorts of minor surgeries and emergencies. You would still have to go to Truro for major operations and anything that wasn't outpatient.

I do think this would mean turning the cottage into a full surgery and not a partial residence...but hopefully this is already in the planning as that place would be cramped with a toddler running around.
I'm thinking maybe Mrs Potter might die and her house would make a very convenient home for the Ellingham family?
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:34
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I'm thinking maybe Mrs Potter might die and her house would make a very convenient home for the Ellingham family?
Shop Girl, please remind me, who is Mrs. Potter?
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Old 25-02-2013, 19:15
Biffpup
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I'm thinking maybe Mrs Potter might die and her house would make a very convenient home for the Ellingham family?
Hey, Shop Girl, me too. I've had my eye on that place almost since the beginning. I was very excited when it finally dawned on me in re-watching the Stewart and the bird-tables episode that Mrs. Potter's house was the one I'd been picturing as a nice, cozy, convenient, and pretty place for the little Ellingham family. I was hoping for more of a glimpse of the interior. But our handy BP set decorators can easily fix it up for us. Er, them.
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