[Shop Girl]

MC on MBB. I think this is new:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...behaving-badly

[Shop Girl]

Originally Posted by NewPark

They may not have intended "Martisa" to become sort of the black hole into which the rest of the series disappears, and I think they are somewhat disconcerted if not dismayed about the way things have developed. And I do agree -- MC at least is getting tired of it and ready to move on. The continued misfiring of communications, misunderstandings, cliff-hangers, disappearances and reappearances do have a lot in common with soap operas, I agree. Mrs. Tishell did parody the fans' frustration so well.

But, OTOH, I wonder if the series would have lasted much longer, or been as successful without that particular story arc. Just don't know how many quirky characters, odd medical conditions, etc., etc., would be needed to have filled the gap in the story line, and how long they would have held interest.

I think you are right about whether it would have lasted this long without the love story. If you think about the US "The Office" (which I know NewPark and I both like), for the first 4 seasons or so, the Jim & Pam story was so riveting that I know I wasn't alone in wanting every week to speed by to see where it was going the next Thursday evening. And at the end of the season each May having to wait until September was agony. I know I was not alone because I was reading an online forum during that time and there were plenty who were riveted by the love story (and like DM, lots and lots of music videos and fanfiction).

Since Jim & Pam got together, married and had children, there isn't the sense of "I can't wait until Thursday night" anymore, but I still enjoy the show. But I wouldn't call the show a "soap opera" just because they had the love story "will they or won't they" at the heart. I would just call it a sitcom, which I don't think diminishes the show. But I don't think that the show would have lasted as long as it did without the love story played by these two lovable and charismatic characters - and I see DM the same way.

[marchrand]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I agree, marchrand. While it has many soap opera characteristics (many years ago when I was home with an infant, I got hooked on one or two ) it is intelligent, clever, well-produced, and not trite or predictable. Lots of things we like are possibly high-class soap operas, but again, so what? It's just a label. But that's not to overlook that MC himself may be discontented with the direction it's taken, or just bored and "time for something new." If so, well and good. He and his writers and production company have given us a lot of pleasure over the years.

I sometimes wonder if MC is, in fact, really discontented with the direction DM has taken--after all, he and PB put their stamp of approval on the scripts don't they? I think one of his greatest acting roles presently is to put out there this "time for something new" part. He might as well ride out the DM gravy train as far as it will go. He, and only he, will know when the last stop is in sight.

[Adelie Manchot]

Time to whack the Hornet's nest again....

Now, if you have paid attention to everything MC/PB have said about the show and the whole Martin/Louisa thing over the years you will understand the following.

This quote is the poster child of what MC does NOT want the show to turn into.

Originally Posted by largenincharge

I don't know if this is a prediction, but I would like to see the opening shot of series 6 go something like this: pan up to the Doc and Louisa asleep in bed, cuddled up--yes, actually touching--on the morning of their wedding, with Louisa wearing the infamous blue pajama top as a nightie. Think there's a possibility I'm right?

And this quote exemplifies why he does not want it going in that direction outside of the fact that he doesn't want the show to turn into some diabetic coma producing dramady.

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

I think you are right about whether it would have lasted this long without the love story. If you think about the US "The Office" (which I know NewPark and I both like), for the first 4 seasons or so, the Jim & Pam story was so riveting that I know I wasn't alone in wanting every week to speed by to see where it was going the next Thursday evening. And at the end of the season each May having to wait until September was agony. I know I was not alone because I was reading an online forum during that time and there were plenty who were riveted by the love story (and like DM, lots and lots of music videos and fanfiction).

Since Jim & Pam got together, married and had children, there isn't the sense of "I can't wait until Thursday night" anymore, but I still enjoy the show. But I wouldn't call the show a "soap opera" just because they had the love story "will they or won't they" at the heart. I would just call it a sitcom, which I don't think diminishes the show. But I don't think that the show would have lasted as long as it did without the love story played by these two lovable and charismatic characters - and I see DM the same way.

Look at the roles he has played over the past 20 years in order to get a sense of what kinds of characters he likes and dislikes to play. They ain't Mr. Wonderful in a happy romantic relationship. At the very best the relationships he is involved in are dysfunctional or very strained, at the very worst strange or downright kinky*. The only possible exception to this would be 'William and Mary' and Mary was hot tempered control freak for the first two series and a screeching harpy for the third series before she finally saw the light in the very last episode.



*The difference between kinky and perverted: Kinky is a feather, perverted is the whole Chicken.

[NewPark]

I absolutely love the opening sequence of this episode -- with DM precisely timing his egg, his immaculate white dishes, his toast soldiers and then the big close-up -- where, for the first and only time in the series, I think, DM looks directly at the camera, sighs, and then moves decisively out the back door.

I think of it as a brilliant camera shot, showing him "facing up" to what he has to do-- i.e., confront Louisa

[RubyRedi]

My

Originally Posted by Adelie Manchot

I think they are trying to dig themselves out of a hole. MC has stated that he doesn't want a 'soap opera' and that is exactly what the majority of fans are clamoring for-all one has to do is read some of the comments here to see that, I can only imagine some of the stuff in the letters they get. If they can't figure out a way to do this to their satisfaction and keep fans happy at the same time then they will probably do what they did with 'William and Mary' and just end it and leave it to your imagination as to what happens afterwards.

Of course it also all depends on how much they like the money generated by the show and weigh it against other factors (how happy they are with the direction the show is taking, how much money they need to become comforatble with the farm, being typecast and losing job offers, etc.) Money talks and it will depend on how loud it does if it shouts down all those other factors to keep MC in a role that is going in a direction he doesn't like and is no longer happy playing. They really do need two more seasons to make the show a good candidate for syndication.

I dont think they need to dig themselves out off a hole!! IMO the show has moved along nicely () albeit maybe not in the way they (BP - they do make some good TV!!!) first invisioned,the Doc/Louisa relationship was never (initially) intended to be the focus, but has been throughout S1 - S5. Dont think it will ever get to the 'soap' stage tho - largely cos we need to wait 2 years for an update !!! I think its a job for them (all) and they just pick up from where they left of!! I also wouldnt imagine they get huge amount of letters... - We brits just let them get on with it!!! Carry On Pretending
My personal opinion is that MC is getting a bit fed up with Doc M and is touting himself about in the UK (He is doing alot of voice overs etc!!)!! Always thought S5 was his pension plan, so S6 is a bonus!! Have never thought money was a motivator for MC but as he's fond of saying 'I am self employed' x

[largenincharge]

Originally Posted by Adelie Manchot

Time to whack the Hornet's nest again....

I won't quote everything you wrote to save space...

Oh, I know there is absolutely no way that first scene is going to be as I described. I would be disappointed if there was some miraculous change and the Doc became completely woolly...but you know a bit more cuddly would not be amiss! Only to LG, only in private, but do you honestly think that's too much to hope for after the end of series 5? Maybe I've been reading too much fan fiction!

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by largenincharge

I won't quote everything you wrote to save space...

Oh, I know there is absolutely no way that first scene is going to be as I described. I would be disappointed if there was some miraculous change and the Doc became completely woolly...but you know a bit more cuddly would not be amiss! Only to LG, only in private, but do you honestly think that's too much to hope for after the end of series 5? Maybe I've been reading too much fan fiction!

No one should have to apologize for their hopes for the show! Having moments of romance or softness between the couple does not equate with being a soppy, cloying soap. It will be interesting to see how MC executes his "escape plan" from DM. 1) More of the same deadness and dysfunction of S5, 2) Become, as Adelie might say, a smarmy soap, 3) Try something new, even if it doesn't work, 4) Just get angrier or grumpier. I know there are more options; what am I missing?

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by statesidefan

No one should have to apologize for their hopes for the show! Having moments of romance or softness between the couple does not equate with being a soppy, cloying soap. It will be interesting to see how MC executes his "escape plan" from DM. 1) More of the same deadness and dysfunction of S5, 2) Become, as Adelie might say, a smarmy soap, 3) Try something new, even if it doesn't work, 4) Just get angrier or grumpier. I know there are more options; what am I missing?

how about 5) show how two dysfunctional and different people, who nevertheless have a deep affection and respect for each other (something always stressed by both MC and CC in interviews) find a way to rock along together, in the context of a committed relationship, with their child, but with the usual share of rows, misunderstandings, sharp differences in views and goals that plague most couples? Interspersed maybe with moments of affection and intimacy?

or as MC said about his life recently -- how "two very different people, hand in hand, built something larger than themselves?"

[whale]

Knowing MC and PB they will have something comical during the wedding, i.e. one of them being very late and everyone on tenderhooks or when the Vicar asks if anyone present does not think they should lawfully be married and BT (bony trollop pipes up)!! or JH has a tantrum, I can see it all now... or is this the dream sequence...

[SusieSagitarius]

Originally Posted by NewPark

how about 5) show how two dysfunctional and different people, who nevertheless have a deep affection and respect for each other (something always stressed by both MC and CC in interviews) find a way to rock along together, in the context of a committed relationship, with their child, but with the usual share of rows, misunderstandings, sharp differences in views and goals that plague most couples? Interspersed maybe with moments of affection and intimacy?

or as MC said about his life recently -- how "two very different people, hand in hand, built something larger than themselves?"

I'm definitely with you on 5. And I can't help but reflect on the DM story as a mirror of bits and pieces and parts of MC life, some of the obvious things we know and some we couldn't even guess. And I do believe (think I've said this before) that the very talented people who put this show together, can offer us something new and different while allowing Martin and Louisa's relationship to continue developing without "jumping the shark".

Love that quotation of Martin's, by the way. What a way with words.

[SusieSagitarius]

Originally Posted by marchrand

I sometimes wonder if MC is, in fact, really discontented with the direction DM has taken--after all, he and PB put their stamp of approval on the scripts don't they? I think one of his greatest acting roles presently is to put out there this "time for something new" part. He might as well ride out the DM gravy train as far as it will go. He, and only he, will know when the last stop is in sight.

Agreed.

Marketing the show: keeping us guessing, feeding us little tidbits, being very coy, sometimes even perhaps throwing a red herring, choosing words very carefully, etc.--I've noticed that in general the cast members all have been very good at utilizing these techniques when talking about the series/episodes. Yes, it is acting a mystery in a sense.

[SusieSagitarius]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I absolutely love the opening sequence of this episode -- with DM precisely timing his egg, his immaculate white dishes, his toast soldiers and then the big close-up -- where, for the first and only time in the series, I think, DM looks directly at the camera, sighs, and then moves decisively out the back door.

I think of it as a brilliant camera shot, showing him "facing up" to what he has to do-- i.e., confront Louisa

Yes, takes me by surprise every time I see it.

Item to note:
Al reminds Doc that Pauline has worked for him for 3 years.

Items of delight:

• Doc snatching the newspaper and handing it into the bathroom. (Isn't worried about his plumbing, then?)
• The way Doc so smoothly gets the handle out of his suitcase as he removes it from the car trunk (boot).
• Boxers, not briefs (y fronts)
• Edith's "Compliment me" and Doc's "What?"
• Doc's suitcase in hand revealed as door widens to admit another man.
• Edith's "an old joke, but one that takes me to the very heart of my...."

[SusieSagitarius]

S6 Opening Shot Prediction

James Henry is being christened in the church and Louisa asks the Doc to get married right then and there since the vicar is already there.

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by statesidefan

No one should have to apologize for their hopes for the show! Having moments of romance or softness between the couple does not equate with being a soppy, cloying soap. It will be interesting to see how MC executes his "escape plan" from DM. 1) More of the same deadness and dysfunction of S5, 2) Become, as Adelie might say, a smarmy soap, 3) Try something new, even if it doesn't work, 4) Just get angrier or grumpier. I know there are more options; what am I missing?

Folks, by the very definition of "soap opera", as pulled from Wiki, DM has been and still is a "soap opera":

"Definition: A crucial element that defines soap opera is the open-ended nature of the narrative, with stories spanning several episodes. One of the defining features that makes a television program a soap opera is that form of television that works with a continuous open narrative. Each episode ends with a promise that the storyline is to be continued in another episode.

Soap opera storylines run concurrently, intersect and lead into further developments. An individual episode of a soap opera will generally switch between several different concurrent narrative threads that may at times interconnect and affect one another or may run entirely independent of each other. Each episode may feature some of the show's current storylines but not always all of them."

This is what confuses me. DM is a soap opera and it has been sweet, annoying, confusing, hopeful, frustrating, etc. I think the infamous line of Mrs. T's in the Castle pretty clearly defined the soap opera nature of DM throughout the years.

I find it odd that MC does show up in so many productions in a bad relationship. You might think that now that he has been in, apparently, a very good one for over a decade he might not be against showing one on TV, finally, as well.

This season could show us a couple that love each other, get along in many ways, do not like a few quirks the other has, but trudge along together figuring out their places in each others hearts, but always together against the outside world. It doesn't have to make us vomit from being too sugar-coated sweet (and we can imagine that would never happen), but making it far less contentious and far more loving would fit in at this point with the soap opera nature of the show, and how things have progressed. It's really not too much to ask or expect.

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by mmDerdekea

Folks, by the very definition of "soap opera", as pulled from Wiki, DM has been and still is a "soap opera":

"Definition: A crucial element that defines soap opera is the open-ended nature of the narrative, with stories spanning several episodes. One of the defining features that makes a television program a soap opera is that form of television that works with a continuous open narrative. Each episode ends with a promise that the storyline is to be continued in another episode.

Soap opera storylines run concurrently, intersect and lead into further developments. An individual episode of a soap opera will generally switch between several different concurrent narrative threads that may at times interconnect and affect one another or may run entirely independent of each other. Each episode may feature some of the show's current storylines but not always all of them."

This is what confuses me. DM is a soap opera and it has been sweet, annoying, confusing, hopeful, frustrating, etc. I think the infamous line of Mrs. T's in the Castle pretty clearly defined the soap opera nature of DM throughout the years.

I find it odd that MC does show up in so many productions in a bad relationship. You might think that now that he has been in, apparently, a very good one for over a decade he might not be against showing one on TV, finally, as well.

This season could show us a couple that love each other, get along in many ways, do not like a few quirks the other has, but trudge along together figuring out their places in each others hearts, but always together against the outside world. It doesn't have to make us vomit from being too sugar-coated sweet (and we can imagine that would never happen), but making it far less contentious and far more loving would fit in at this point with the soap opera nature of the show, and how things have progressed. It's really not too much to ask or expect.

Thanks for this, Mona. I agree -- DM is in fact a soap opera, but a very high class one --perhaps the difference between 8 episodes every two years and one a day that soaps generally have to do. I don't know why MC is so derisive about that label. It's the soap opera aspect that has hooked people, up to 9 million UK viewers at a time, and led to additional series and lots of remuneration for BP productions. William and Mary was also a soap opera, in that sense.

But it is not a fairy tale or a bodice-ripper romance. And we don't expect or want that. It quite deliberately pokes fun at the fairy-tale expectation.

[MrsWindy1]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

I think you are right about whether it would have lasted this long without the love story. If you think about the US "The Office" (which I know NewPark and I both like), for the first 4 seasons or so, the Jim & Pam story was so riveting that I know I wasn't alone in wanting every week to speed by to see where it was going the next Thursday evening. And at the end of the season each May having to wait until September was agony. I know I was not alone because I was reading an online forum during that time and there were plenty who were riveted by the love story (and like DM, lots and lots of music videos and fanfiction).

Since Jim & Pam got together, married and had children, there isn't the sense of "I can't wait until Thursday night" anymore, but I still enjoy the show. But I wouldn't call the show a "soap opera" just because they had the love story "will they or won't they" at the heart. I would just call it a sitcom, which I don't think diminishes the show. But I don't think that the show would have lasted as long as it did without the love story played by these two lovable and charismatic characters - and I see DM the same way.

I still love the Pam and Jim character. They have the magic to make a married couple work on TV. The problem that I see now is that without Michael Scott, the incredible silliness doesn't work anymore. It's just stupid silly.

[cc.cookie]

Originally Posted by mmDerdekea

Folks, by the very definition of "soap opera", as pulled from Wiki, DM has been and still is a "soap opera":

"Definition: A crucial element that defines soap opera is the open-ended nature of the narrative, with stories spanning several episodes. One of the defining features that makes a television program a soap opera is that form of television that works with a continuous open narrative. Each episode ends with a promise that the storyline is to be continued in another episode.

Soap opera storylines run concurrently, intersect and lead into further developments. An individual episode of a soap opera will generally switch between several different concurrent narrative threads that may at times interconnect and affect one another or may run entirely independent of each other. Each episode may feature some of the show's current storylines but not always all of them."

This is what confuses me. DM is a soap opera and it has been sweet, annoying, confusing, hopeful, frustrating, etc. I think the infamous line of Mrs. T's in the Castle pretty clearly defined the soap opera nature of DM throughout the years.

I find it odd that MC does show up in so many productions in a bad relationship. You might think that now that he has been in, apparently, a very good one for over a decade he might not be against showing one on TV, finally, as well.

This season could show us a couple that love each other, get along in many ways, do not like a few quirks the other has, but trudge along together figuring out their places in each others hearts, but always together against the outside world. It doesn't have to make us vomit from being too sugar-coated sweet (and we can imagine that would never happen), but making it far less contentious and far more loving would fit in at this point with the soap opera nature of the show, and how things have progressed. It's really not too much to ask or expect.

Totally agree.

The other feature I always associate with soaps is that nothing ever happens. I remember my grandmother watching days of our lives when she visited for 2 weeks every year. Each year when I watched it with her I could easily pick up the storyline as nothing had happened.

You could delete the entire s5 of doc martin and not miss it as very little happened.

I don't care if it is a "soap" or not just as long as it comes to a happy resolution before it ends - unlike (stupid!) William & Mary.

[dcdmfan]

I wish you all wouldn't say that it is a soap opera. Fear of the show becoming a soap opera is a reason that MC sometimes gives when he talks about ending the show. If his most ardent fans are calling the show a soap opera, he has to wonder what the casual fans think of the show.

I don't want the show to end. i don't think the show should have ended at the end of series 5. I am not on a discussion forum for shows I think "should have ended". It sort of makes me sad when I read things like that on this discussion forum.

And I don't think the show is a soap opera, no matter what the wiki says.

[NewPark]

I think that although Martin undeniably felt trapped and uncomfortable in that hotel room with Edith, he would have probably gone through with what Edith had in mind, if not for the lucky accident of catching a glimpse of the chambermaid and her ponytail, which I think brought Louisa forcibly to his mind. Then we saw the "gulp" which is a sign of huge emotion with this character and he was out of there.

[SusieSagitarius]

Originally Posted by dcdmfan

I wish you all wouldn't say that it is a soap opera. Fear of the show becoming a soap opera is a reason that MC sometimes gives when he talks about ending the show. If his most ardent fans are calling the show a soap opera, he has to wonder what the casual fans think of the show.

I don't want the show to end. i don't think the show should have ended at the end of series 5. I am not on a discussion forum for shows I think "should have ended". It sort of makes me sad when I read things like that on this discussion forum.

And I don't think the show is a soap opera, no matter what the wiki says.

I'll stand with you on this one, dcdmfan. Having spent my early life raised on my mother's soaps all summer holiday, and then falling prey to them again in my early twenties, before I realized there were better things to do with my life, I can't even begin to think of Doc Martin as a soap. First and foremost, I could only wish the soaps had the high quality of writing, scene location, acting, story timeline and surprises that we see in DM.

If we want to use Wikipedia as a source of information, then take a look at the entry under "Comedy-drama" (aka "dramedy"). Then click on the bottom link "List of comedy-drama television series". (Yes, I know anyone can publish anything to Wikipedia. Yikes, that's scary.)

I also looked up "single-camera setup" as I believe that is what BP uses for shooting. Interesting stuff.

And no, MC doesn't want it to devolve into a soap because that is not the kind of program BP set out to make. Remember he follows The Archers and you can't be English and not know about Coronation Street.

[ReneeBird]

Originally Posted by SusieSagitarius

[*]Doc snatching the newspaper and handing it into the bathroom. (Isn't worried about his plumbing, then?)[/list]

True story! I read that people in Europe don't have to have as soft t.p. as we seem to require in the US. We're a cushy lot!

[ReneeBird]

I may not be able to go to PortWenn, but I can dress like Louisa. I have her tank-top! http://twitter.com/Reneebird_/status...905793/photo/1

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I think that although Martin undeniably felt trapped and uncomfortable in that hotel room with Edith, he would have probably gone through with what Edith had in mind, if not for the lucky accident of catching a glimpse of the chambermaid and her ponytail, which I think brought Louisa forcibly to his mind. Then we saw the "gulp" which is a sign of huge emotion with this character and he was out of there.

This idea has floated around the Forum many times. I do not really agree with it. From the moment DM entered that room he was completely uncomfortable and awkward. That he went through motions of the room, such as the air conditioner and checking for bed bugs, is like LG dating Danny--sipping the acrid waters she never wished to drink. I do not believe he ever wanted to have sex with Edith. I can believe that for a moment he was allowing himself to fall back into a very old habit of allowing Edith to be the "man" in the relationship, as she probably was, to some extent, when they were lovers in med school. I can see that the ponytail was a poignant moment, but I think something else was much more important than that.

I think DM being the Doc In Chief, with no problems with blood or an amputated finger in the kitchen really gave him the strength he needed to completely pull back from Edith. The strength he needed to realize he just wanted to be with LG, and that Edith no longer had that decisive power over him she had in the past. I think it was his own self-confidence and self-actualization that was the primary force of his leaving the hotel. He was not her puppet anymore.

He got home late, and he immediately began packing. He had no blood phobia, anymore, and although he loved LG and would stay true to her, his life was now, he thought in London, as a surgeon, once again.

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by mmDerdekea

This idea has floated around the Forum many times. I do not really agree with it. From the moment DM entered that room he was completely uncomfortable and awkward. That he went through motions of the room, such as the air conditioner and checking for bed bugs, is like LG dating Danny--sipping the acrid waters she never wished to drink. I do not believe he ever wanted to have sex with Edith. I can believe that for a moment he was allowing himself to fall back into a very old habit of allowing Edith to be the "man" in the relationship, as she probably was, to some extent, when they were lovers in med school. I can see that the ponytail was a poignant moment, but I think something else was much more important than that.

I think DM being the Doc In Chief, with no problems with blood or an amputated finger in the kitchen really gave him the strength he needed to completely pull back from Edith. The strength he needed to realize he just wanted to be with LG, and that Edith no longer had that decisive power over him she had in the past. I think it was his own self-confidence and self-actualization that was the primary force of his leaving the hotel. He was not her puppet anymore.

He got home late, and he immediately began packing. He had no blood phobia, anymore, and although he loved LG and would stay true to her, his life was now, he thought in London, as a surgeon, once again.

The thought of him going through with it is too horrible to contemplate as he would then have been well and truly trapped. I agree he was going through the motions but he was oddly passive about the whole deal -- meekly putting his boxers in the drawer, etc., etc. Was he so afraid of Edith that he couldn't say, "there's been some mistake?" Suppose he had gotten into that bed -- as there is no reason to think he wasn't going along with. Edith would not have left him alone, you can count on that! and, as hopeless about Louisa as he was feeling at that point, I don't know that he could have held out. I think he was just sleepwalking, but it's a good point that his experience in the kitchen restored some sense of his own power and that he did not have to do what Edith wanted. But I will always think that the chambermaid was the last straw-- it can't be a coincidence that they styled her hair into a pony tail or that we see him deciding to leave as soon as he saw that.

Still, like many things in the series, in the end, it's ambiguous. But I lean to the idea that he would have done the deed, and lived to regret it, sooner rather than later.