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Doc Martin (Part 15 Spoilers)


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Old 25-04-2013, 18:58
DMfan
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To me the Edith character, while intentionally loathsome, was one of the most important elements of the show. She explained so much about ME's current condition. Sure he had the blood phobia but I think most of his fear of LG was based on Edith's rejection of him. Her rejection reflected his mother's rejection of him. I think the poor man was always waiting for LG to reject him. When she did not do it, he gave her reasons to do so. The kiss in the taxi couldn't stand alone. He had to make the comment about her breath, so that she would have a chance to reject him. His declaration of love to her after the wine-filled evening was followed the next day by ME accusing LG of stalking him - rejection opportunity again. They developed a pattern of him offering love and an opportunity to reject him was quite clear through all 5 seasons. It will be interesting to see if it continues into season 6. I bet it does.
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Old 25-04-2013, 20:47
SusieSagitarius
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I feel that getting involved with the younger doc's history is super interesting and for me, also a vital component of understanding who he is in the TV show and how he reacts or doesn't in many situations.

I would personally not want to just pick up on someone like a blank slate and not know their past; knowing his history and discussing it really helps me with his present personality, struggles and problems with growth.

I have no problem with the fact that 20 years after being rejected by Edith, and obviously having little or probably no contact with her, and stuffing his emotions even deeper, DM would not be all emotional at seeing her again. However, her still having the poem memorized and his quick denial he is still writing more made a big impression on me. She remembers a poem from 20 years ago--one can imagine how much it touched her at the time to have it permanently in her head. And she recited it with real warmth and sentimentality, which I think is what made DM immediately state he was no longer composing more. It brought back a time of great sensitivity--remember the poem discusses love as a boy running back to his mother. Such a fragile description of his heart!

From that moment there in the restaurant, I feel it makes sense to believe there was a very close relationship between them, even with some fun times, such as the little smile both got when she noted the Buddha and went over to see it in his consulting room.

I feel that that old love was indeed that, a true love, at least for the immeasurably loved starved DM. That he may have followed EM's lead in the relationship is probably true, but I think he was seriously in love at that time, and truly hurt when she rejected his offer for marriage.

But, 20 years later, he has fully moved on, both away from her in that way and towards another woman.

Analyzing his past with Edith, and analyzing his childhood persona in his horrid household, and knowing his difficult experiences at boarding school, and knowing the brief haven he was accorded at AJ's in the summer, knowing his devastation at losing Edith, all of these help me appreciate DM more in the TV show. And, that is why I think we've learned all of that in the five seasons, as the writers and producers wished us to understand DM in deeper ways as well.

As we've said, even MC's attitude turned from believing DM was vile, to now believing him "damaged". This show is concise with its details at times, and giving us so much back story to discuss and analyze has been a deliberate move on their part. I've enjoyed learning all of it.
Oh, mmD, thank you for pulling together such a wonderful synopsis of the Doc background story. You've said what I've pieced together as I watch and re-watch and re-watch.

Sometimes I think that because the show is so packed full of stuff and leaves much to our imaginations, we get lost in the minutiae and lose sight of the bigger picture, too, and how it all fits together. It also has given us very complex characters that make it so interesting to delve into the heart of them. And sometimes we see more of one trait than another in a character and it throws us off track. But that leads back to the complexity we're shown.

Again, thank you, for taking the time to write this up.
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Old 25-04-2013, 21:01
SusieSagitarius
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To me the Edith character, while intentionally loathsome, was one of the most important elements of the show. She explained so much about ME's current condition. Sure he had the blood phobia but I think most of his fear of LG was based on Edith's rejection of him. Her rejection reflected his mother's rejection of him. I think the poor man was always waiting for LG to reject him. When she did not do it, he gave her reasons to do so. The kiss in the taxi couldn't stand alone. He had to make the comment about her breath, so that she would have a chance to reject him. His declaration of love to her after the wine-filled evening was followed the next day by ME accusing LG of stalking him - rejection opportunity again. They developed a pattern of him offering love and an opportunity to reject him was quite clear through all 5 seasons. It will be interesting to see if it continues into season 6. I bet it does.
If it does, those situations are the ones that could then give LG the chance to step up to the plate (as has been previously suggested) and change her reaction and maybe even helping him rethink his approach. I do think that in S5 he has already begun to rethink/reformulate his conversation with LG at times. Maybe not successfully all the time, but he seems to be trying to be more sensitive to her in some interactions.
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Old 25-04-2013, 23:37
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I feel that getting involved with the younger doc's history is super interesting and for me, also a vital component of understanding who he is in the TV show and how he reacts or doesn't in many situations.

As we've said, even MC's attitude turned from believing DM was vile, to now believing him "damaged". This show is concise with its details at times, and giving us so much back story to discuss and analyze has been a deliberate move on their part. I've enjoyed learning all of it.
Agree with the whole post Mona. The writers must also be discussing and analysing the show as It progresses from one series to the next. MC may not watch the show but I am sure the current writers do to see what worked and what didnt.

They also allow themselves some poetic licence if the background story they've given a character no longer works. Because the show is a continuing development, I am happy with that.

Dominic Minghella managed to show us the characters as they developed without telling us. The current writers don't quite have the same nack - or I am not so attuned to their writing - but discussing it here helps to iron out the inconsistencies and work out the meaning behind the various behaviour of the characters, for me.
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Old 26-04-2013, 01:19
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I feel that getting involved with the younger doc's history is super interesting and for me, also a vital component of understanding who he is in the TV show and how he reacts or doesn't in many situations.

I would personally not want to just pick up on someone like a blank slate and not know their past; knowing his history and discussing it really helps me with his present personality, struggles and problems with growth.

I have no problem with the fact that 20 years after being rejected by Edith, and obviously having little or probably no contact with her, and stuffing his emotions even deeper, DM would not be all emotional at seeing her again. However, her still having the poem memorized and his quick denial he is still writing more made a big impression on me. She remembers a poem from 20 years ago--one can imagine how much it touched her at the time to have it permanently in her head. And she recited it with real warmth and sentimentality, which I think is what made DM immediately state he was no longer composing more. It brought back a time of great sensitivity--remember the poem discusses love as a boy running back to his mother. Such a fragile description of his heart!

From that moment there in the restaurant, I feel it makes sense to believe there was a very close relationship between them, even with some fun times, such as the little smile both got when she noted the Buddha and went over to see it in his consulting room.

I feel that that old love was indeed that, a true love, at least for the immeasurably loved starved DM. That he may have followed EM's lead in the relationship is probably true, but I think he was seriously in love at that time, and truly hurt when she rejected his offer for marriage.

But, 20 years later, he has fully moved on, both away from her in that way and towards another woman.

Analyzing his past with Edith, and analyzing his childhood persona in his horrid household, and knowing his difficult experiences at boarding school, and knowing the brief haven he was accorded at AJ's in the summer, knowing his devastation at losing Edith, all of these help me appreciate DM more in the TV show. And, that is why I think we've learned all of that in the five seasons, as the writers and producers wished us to understand DM in deeper ways as well.

As we've said, even MC's attitude turned from believing DM was vile, to now believing him "damaged". This show is concise with its details at times, and giving us so much back story to discuss and analyze has been a deliberate move on their part. I've enjoyed learning all of it.
Thanks Mona - great analysis and I agree with all of it (although I don't have your gift putting it into words!)

I think he really did love Edith and was damaged by her rejection 20 years ago, but if he had ended up with her then or in S4 I fear he would have found himself married to his mother. I don't think he realized it (or fully does even yet), but deep down he needs a woman who can fill that emotional hole that was never filled by his mother. He needs a partner who can bring him the softness and caring that he never had growing up. He got a bit of that from AJ, but was snatched from him. I suspect that deep down he started to realize this after his mother's revelations to him, and it may have played a part in the ultimate rejection of Edith this time around.

Not sure if this makes sense, but it has been kicking around my brain for a bit now.
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Old 26-04-2013, 01:35
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Just catching up on my rewatch.....

I found a very sweet moment after Louisa has started working as the receptionist. The baby is crying upstairs and she has come downstairs to the desk in her pink sweater. She is telling Martin something about the next patient and yawns while talking. Martin leans toward her and in a VERY sweet tone of voice asks, "Is it too much for you?"

I love this little exchange
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Old 26-04-2013, 02:29
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This is OT but does anyone have the Caroline Catz interview video (probably the only one she's done alone) it was talking about the start of season 4 thanks
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Old 26-04-2013, 03:14
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Just watched Erotomania (S2) on the tube and forgot how funny it is!

While Julie Mitchell is pretending to be someone else, Danny Steel is also pretending to be someone he is not. Never picked up on that parallel before.

And then we have LG and DE - sigh - stick of rock - bottle of wine - words of love - a snore - and thou... plus a slap! Hee-hee!
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Old 26-04-2013, 03:42
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Just watched Erotomania (S2) on the tube and forgot how funny it is!

While Julie Mitchell is pretending to be someone else, Danny Steel is also pretending to be someone he is not. Never picked up on that parallel before.

And then we have LG and DE - sigh - stick of rock - bottle of wine - words of love - a snore - and thou... plus a slap! Hee-hee!
Absolutely LOVE that episode. There is SO much there! But one of the things I love the most was that both Louisa and Martin (through the wine scene) were saying EXACTLY what they thought. The Doc was SO sincere. To say that he loved her was amazing, but I think equally compelling was his telling her that he lived to just catch a glimpse of her everyday. When he finds a way to really share his feelings, Louisa melts.
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:00
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I found this picture on the web site of Abbi Collins who does stunt work. She state she was CC's double in this scene although the picture looks like CC. Interesting to see the rigging.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a03d73897...n2hwo1_500.jpg
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:40
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Thanks Mona - great analysis and I agree with all of it (although I don't have your gift putting it into words!)

I think he really did love Edith and was damaged by her rejection 20 years ago, but if he had ended up with her then or in S4 I fear he would have found himself married to his mother. I don't think he realized it (or fully does even yet), but deep down he needs a woman who can fill that emotional hole that was never filled by his mother. He needs a partner who can bring him the softness and caring that he never had growing up. He got a bit of that from AJ, but was snatched from him. I suspect that deep down he started to realize this after his mother's revelations to him, and it may have played a part in the ultimate rejection of Edith this time around.

Not sure if this makes sense, but it has been kicking around my brain for a bit now.
I agree, I think the parents episode was pivotal to his desire to change. Edith represented his old life pushing him to resume Surgery and move back to London. Although he rejected her in s 4 it wasn't until the end of s5 that he realised (we hope!) that this wasn't the solution.
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:43
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Absolutely LOVE that episode. There is SO much there! But one of the things I love the most was that both Louisa and Martin (through the wine scene) were saying EXACTLY what they thought. The Doc was SO sincere. To say that he loved her was amazing, but I think equally compelling was his telling her that he lived to just catch a glimpse of her everyday. When he finds a way to really share his feelings, Louisa melts.
See! All they need is a drop of wine or maybe some of Elinore's potion!
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:54
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See! All they need is a drop of wine or maybe some of Elinore's potion!
I still think the suggestion that the Doc occasionally drinks is interesting. Remember Mylow's remark that he has the ??? drink the Doc likes, the Doc heading up to his bedroom at night with what looks like amber-colored liquid in his glass, and when he pours two glasses of whiskey when Joan is upset, presumably for both himself and AJ - and are there other scenes in the Doc's kitchen that show he keeps liquor on hand?
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Old 26-04-2013, 05:35
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Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses to my last email. I really enjoyed seeing everyone's opinion on this topic. Loads more to think about. The forum at its best!
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Old 26-04-2013, 07:20
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Agree with the whole post Mona. The writers must also be discussing and analysing the show as It progresses from one series to the next. MC may not watch the show but I am sure the current writers do to see what worked and what didnt. ...
cc., MC does watch his work I believe, because of something he said in one of the more recent interviews. See starting at 1:15 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkDL0Je6qU where he states it's ghastly to watch yourself but on things he's in or makes, he feels it incumbent to watch and learn from it.
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Old 26-04-2013, 07:22
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Absolutely LOVE that episode. There is SO much there! But one of the things I love the most was that both Louisa and Martin (through the wine scene) were saying EXACTLY what they thought. The Doc was SO sincere. To say that he loved her was amazing, but I think equally compelling was his telling her that he lived to just catch a glimpse of her everyday. When he finds a way to really share his feelings, Louisa melts.
Not just Louisa

Don't we all...?

EVERY time...
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Old 26-04-2013, 12:03
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cc., MC does watch his work I believe, because of something he said in one of the more recent interviews. See starting at 1:15 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkDL0Je6qU where he states it's ghastly to watch yourself but on things he's in or makes, he feels it incumbent to watch and learn from it.
Well he's always said only believe what you actually hear someone say so I guess you're right! Very glad to hear it.
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Old 26-04-2013, 12:33
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To me the Edith character, while intentionally loathsome, was one of the most important elements of the show. She explained so much about ME's current condition. Sure he had the blood phobia but I think most of his fear of LG was based on Edith's rejection of him. Her rejection reflected his mother's rejection of him. I think the poor man was always waiting for LG to reject him. When she did not do it, he gave her reasons to do so. The kiss in the taxi couldn't stand alone. He had to make the comment about her breath, so that she would have a chance to reject him. His declaration of love to her after the wine-filled evening was followed the next day by ME accusing LG of stalking him - rejection opportunity again. They developed a pattern of him offering love and an opportunity to reject him was quite clear through all 5 seasons. It will be interesting to see if it continues into season 6. I bet it does.
I enjoy your comments!
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Old 26-04-2013, 12:37
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Agree with the whole post Mona. The writers must also be discussing and analysing the show as It progresses from one series to the next. MC may not watch the show but I am sure the current writers do to see what worked and what didnt.

They also allow themselves some poetic licence if the background story they've given a character no longer works. Because the show is a continuing development, I am happy with that.

Dominic Minghella managed to show us the characters as they developed without telling us. The current writers don't quite have the same nack - or I am not so attuned to their writing - but discussing it here helps to iron out the inconsistencies and work out the meaning behind the various behaviour of the characters, for me.
I have heard him say that he watches the show, albeit reluctantly.
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Old 26-04-2013, 12:47
robspace54
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I found this picture on the web site of Abbi Collins who does stunt work. She state she was CC's double in this scene although the picture looks like CC. Interesting to see the rigging.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a03d73897...n2hwo1_500.jpg
Movie magic. Looks like a fake cliff as well, plaster and foam.
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Old 26-04-2013, 14:47
dmptrader
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I found this picture on the web site of Abbi Collins who does stunt work. She state she was CC's double in this scene although the picture looks like CC. Interesting to see the rigging.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a03d73897...n2hwo1_500.jpg
Lemster thank you for this tidbit. I love behind the scenes stuff.
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Old 26-04-2013, 15:43
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Some activity on Twitter about filming today but nothing earth shattering
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Old 26-04-2013, 16:31
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Some activity on Twitter about filming today but nothing earth shattering
Twitter searching would be so much easier if those damn kids were smart enough to know that the boots are spelled with an "e". (codger alert! )
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Old 26-04-2013, 19:27
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Some activity on Twitter about filming today but nothing earth shattering
Thanks, dmptrader. I picked up that Doc Martin Online is interviewing fans in Port Isaac today - and that Rory Winton (Chippy) is filming DM tonight. Love the idea of more night scenes, as many have said here previously.
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Old 26-04-2013, 19:37
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Greetings from Port Isaac. After five days in Cornwall which have been pretty grey and misty, April 26th comes -- the scheduled day for filming -- and the blue sky appears (albeit with a bitter wind). The Portwenn effect exercises its magic once again. The Doc Martin cult is here in full force with tourists from the US, Canada, New Zealand and all over England that I have met today personally, though the crew seem to consider this a "quiet" day compared to what they will be contending with later in the summer. I was not prepared for being excluded from viewing the filming quite so much as BP's security people ensured that we were. In the morning it seemed to be a scene inside Portwenn Primary (a meeting, one of the crew said), as cameras were perched on a scaffold around the harbour side of the school, completely cut off from view. CC was inside the school, but she was taken into the secured school parking lot area in a vehicle with tinted windows and left the same way, so very hard to get even a photo. Bert and Al also arrived in the same way, but hung about a bit more outside the school before going in, much to the gratification of my zoom lens. In the afternoon the filming moved around to Large's Restaurant which was festooned with dried hops and some signage to convert it from the house it normally is to the restaurant it becomes for the series. Again access was severely restricted. I was able to hang over the wall above the restaurant and watch one scene, which involved a bad review that the restaurant had received in the newspaper (Bert and Al discussing it together) and then when I was shooed off the hill I went around to the beach and watched for a while from there -- a scene with Bert talking to a couple dining in the restaurant, and Al helping him serve. For some reason one does not expect the actors to look exactly like they do on film, but they do. They look exactly like themselves! MC was home in Dorset today. I think he will be here on Tuesday, which is sadly the day after I leave for home. Of course those who have seen my previous posts here know that I am not so besotted with MC as with a certain handsome policeman, so certainly the highlight of my day was running into John Marquez on Fore Street, exchanging a few words and having my picture taken with him. He is very soft-spoken and approachable. Lovely eyes, lovely man, Lovely....Joe Absolom also seems very approachable. The word on the street about MC and CC is that they are not -- or at least not the extent that they were in the early seasons when they used to use the time between takes to socialise with people in the crowd of spectators. In interviews MC has said that the village of Port Isaac is equally divided between those who enjoy having the filming there and those who detest it. Perhaps it was just that I spoke exclusively with those who detest it, but I did discern a definite anti-Doc vibe among the locals. One surly Cornishman sat down beside me at one point and said without ceremony: "it's ruined the village." The village, at any rate seems to want to assert its identity apart from Doc Martin. There is only one shop that stocks his merchandise, and the local life offers lots of other things that might draw a holiday-maker here. All in all, seeing the village was thrilling (I visited here several times before the filming day); watching the filming was by turns boring, frustrating and ungratifying punctuated by these extreme surges of adrenyline when something would happen or when an actor would appear. If you can make it to Port Isaac at any time, it is a good thing for any die-hard fan to do. If you can't make it to the filming, don't be gutted. It's not all that. Oh... I did notice one interesting development: no Ben Bolt. Apparently the series has a new director this season. I wonder if that will make any discernible change to the finished product.
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