hopefully they will pick up slam city season 2 too.

But the irony is James, you aren't the kind of person TV companies want to know about. You will watch anything with the word wrestling in it. That's why all the crying people did in the Attitude Era and all the crying since then till this very day comes from "wrestling fans".


Wrestling fans will watch and watch and never stop watching. Wrestling fans will watch ANYTHING with the word WRESTLING in it. That is why for any wrestling company to succeed they shouldn't be booking for the wrestling fans but for the casual TV audience who isn't a wrestling fan. Wrestling fans will always watch, complain online, then watch the next night again. Casual TV viewers who just want to be entertained are not like this. That is why the key has always been to grow the audience. No company out there is growing their audience.

It's like Russo said about the John Cena tours drawing 7k and 8k and the Roman Reigns tours drawing 5k and 6k. If a crowd is drawing 7 or 8k, doesn't that mean the building they are in holds 15k, 20k? In other words WWE is only half filling the buildings. That right there is a issue. People can talk about TNA not drawing a paying crowd or the ones they do only being in the hundreds but if the BIGGEST wrestling company in the world is only half filling buildings throughout the week in their house shows isn't that a problem?


And regardless of how TNA is run, I don't think any company is falling over themselves for wrestling. I don't even think USA Network is all that keen on it and look what they paid for WWE. It's one of those things that will always draw viewers. Even look at Sky Sports over here. I'm sure they love the ratings WWE gets but I don't see them falling over themselves for WWE. i don't see WWE promos every day. It's a dirty little secret. They don't want to talk about it either.


And it's always been that way with wrestling. It's not something that will ever be openly respected or talked about and then again look at wrestlers when they appear on TV shows. It's so 1980s, So in character and anytime the interviewer does get some real talk from them, the end game is always to sell a house show or PPV so then they switch back into character again lol. No wrestler ever says well I don't know what will happen on Sunday. You'd never see John Cena on a TV show saying that, he always gets back into character and yells and screams and it's no wonder the hosts are pissing themselves laughing. It's so old hat. So hokey. So American. So Hollywood. They don't even have the decency to sit and have a proper conversation about it and just treat it for what it is, a fixed sport.

A lot needs to change in the wrestling business. And TNA's audience absolutely by now know about ROH so why aren't they watching ROH? Maybe because TNA has a wider scope than just inring wrestling. A bigger box and they can reach all the corners in it. That's what DA should be asking themselves, why aren't those extra TNA viewers watching ROH? They're wrestling fans right? Oh.......maybe they're not. Maybe their just TV viewers who like to be entertained.

yeah no doubt you have wrestling fans who watch everythng(and moan how they hate it) and you have casual fans

attitude era has both

current era has only the former and kids.

the thing with tna is they had the right vision, lets give fans a mature product,they are crying out for it etc but they never ever see anything through, there is always an ownership or creative change every 6 months it seems. and imo they played it too safe for too long and in end always limited themselves to the small time. its a shame and they can only blame themselves but would be nice to see them survive. after all maybe one day another ted turner will pop up and kickstart this industry because its a brilliant time to be a part of when its on fire.

Styles was apparently asked to go into their hall of fame and said no

someone email challenge and ask them to pick up roh plz, wouldnt mind getting back into it but also dont want spyware/adware on my pc!

TNA absolutely did not have the right vision. That's why they've failed time after time. They've had a few quite limited windows where their product was in any way hot.

He did turned down a lot of money to.

He no longer wants anything to do with TNA.

One of the best wrestlers in the world and look how they treated him.

Rumours are WWE want him for NXT from what I read he says he will think about it.

The changes in creative were shocking. Wrestling doesn't change overnight. You need to be consistent. The only way to truly know if something is working is to stick with the same people on creative, have a vision, and give it a year and focus on a consistent show every week and building characters and stories that make sense and see if it catches on with the public.

I think with TNA they had their 1 million viewers on Spike which was good, 1 million viewers for any cable channel is good in 2015 but I think they knew they would always be there so there was never any real desire to reach 2 million because the 1 million would always be there and Spike would always help compensate. Now it's much different and you know what? TNA did alright on Fridays with DA. I honestly think if DA was in the same number of homes as Spike they would have gotten all their viewers back.

And no matter how much money WWE makes, they will always be the number 1 company. I think it makes sense for any network interested in wrestling to look at WWE and what they are doing. WWE drew a 2.63 rating this week for their Monday Night Raw show, with Lesnar on the show right off the bat, no excuse to know he wasn't there. I think all networks would use common sense and realise if that is what the top dog is drawing in viewers.........what can the other companies draw? It's not a 3.0 or a 4.0 or a 5.0. It's a 2.63. Realistically what can TNA or ROH or Lucha or GFW if the biggest wrestling company in the world is drawing a 2.6? It's not something they are going to invest a lot of money in. The audience for it just isn't there anymore and the truth is there hasn't been for a number of years. Just adults who watched it 10,15,20,25,30 years ago that will never stop watching and families just discovering it before their kids........discover basketball or football or they get a girlfriend or they start going to discos. Wrestlings just that thing they are into for a few years before they grow up into big boys and girls and become teenagers.

yeah thats very good point(bar using the word disco!)

i grew up in 80s watching wreslting,loved it. then as i became a teen attitude era started andi loved it even mroe, now i watch it out of nostalgia as it kinda sad tos top watching something that you loved your whole life.

my cousin on other hand grew up in 90s,watched attitude era as a kid and then gave it up in 2002.

i imagine the cena kids right now may well not be watching raw in 10 years time.

No idea I dont use stuff like twitter.

I am tempted to go back and rewatch the birth of TNA. Challenge as I recall had problems when they reaired the episode as part of it was a bit pixelated.

Firstly hazy using the word irony is hilarious. Secondly hazy using the word irony when making definitive statements about things he actually knows nothing about is even funnier.


I know you don't like to let reality get in the way of anything you say but you realise there's a mountain of proof that completely contradicts this argument, right?


Here's where I stopped reading this paragraph. Vince Russo who ran WCW out of business and helped cripple TNA is in absolutely no position to offer criticism of any modern wrestling company or how its run.


Which explains why they've insisted on having three hours of it every Monday night despite WWE's objections and will add an additional two hours of Smackdown in the near future and have just added an hour of WWE Tough Enough to their schedule again. Yeah USA Network really is begrudgingly airing WWE content.


The most profitable television deal WWE has ever had. More proof I think we can all agree that USA would really rather not have WWE on their air.


Except that bit where they sign big money deals to keep the product on their air exclusively and all those PPV promos they run obviously.


So not only do you completely invent what the WWE product is every week you're now in the business of completely inventing the content of every wrestlers appearances outside of a wrestling show. I fear its possible you have too much time on your hands which is really quite a damning statement coming from me since I'm still replying to yours posts.


This is a good question particular in light of your 'wrestling fans will watch anything wrestling'. So presumably what you're saying here is that RoH's Destination America viewer levels represent the hardcore fans who will watch anything wrestling so in reality what you're saying is WWE attracts millions of casual fans every week.


If they're watching TNA I think we can assume they don't want to be entertained!


Wait a minute so what, exactly, is the level of the hardcore fans who will watch anything then? Because there are currently four different wrestling companies airing on television in the US and all four of those shows attract different audience levels. You cannot argue that the WWE is only attracting the hardcore wrestling fans (and kids) and then say that's the only viewers RoH is attracting. The viewership gap between the two shows is huge. Are you just suggesting that 3.5 million kids watch Raw every week? There's absolutely no logical consistency to this argument. If casual viewers aren't watching wrestling and its just the hardcore wrestling fans tuning in then surely viewers for all these shows would be more or less the same?


This is the funniest thing you'll ever say.


A disciple of Vince Russo saying this is mind blowing to me.


Yet Raw's well over 3 million viewers is a disaster every week. What were you saying about consistency?


Any network looking at WWE's numbers won't be looking at the totally meaningless household numbers because they're totally meaningless. We've had this conversation several times before. If you want to talk ratings talk numbers that actually mean something to networks and advertisers.

Also you really cannot make this WWE ratings are a disaster area a few sentences after saying 1 million viewers for any cable channel is good in 2015. Because that sentence dictates that a network would look at WWE pulling well over 3 million for three hours every week and say "that's amazing".


Because apparently they invented a time machine and went back to the 70s.

Did anyone watch that first TNA show that Challenge aired over the Christmas period?

Except ROH and TNA and Lucha Underground? They'll watch ANYTHING with the word WRESTLING in it yet the same amount of viewers don't watch every wrestling show


Like ummm..... you?


Except for Destination America who just signed their second wrestling company up? And El Rey who signed Lucha Underground up? Fight Network that signed up House Of Harcore? Pop who signed up Paragon Pro Wrestling? Yep, none of that happened.


Which is USA Network decided to move Smackdown to the channel? And why they increased Raw to three hours? And why Tough Enough just began its new season? Yup, none of that happened.


More than they ever have as explained to you about a billion times now. But yep, that never happened either.


That's why Sky Sports is said to have tripled the value of their deal with WWE at the last negotiations?

Whedon you talk the way nearly everyone else does.

It's always when i USED to watch wrestling. Never in the present tense. Anyone telling themselves any different is kidding themselves.


When do you see USA Network bragging about WWE? When do you see Sky Sports advertise WWE's shows or talk about WWE news on their Sky Sports News channel? They'd get the piss taken right out of them. Even Challenge barely promotes TNA. No TV channel in the world brags about showing wrestling. It might get the viewers, it might make money but it's not something you talk about.

I bet you that's the same on here for the people here. I bet you all the people on here that post everyday, do you think they go about talking about wrestling? Course they don't unless it's family or friends they've known since childhood. It just doesn't happen.

When do you see USA Network bragging about anything? I mean, I doubt you're watching many American TV stations in Scotland...

And Sly advertise WWE PPVs all the time.

How do you get into ROH? I tried years ago when The Wrestling Channel was around and its something I just couldnt get into. I tried to watch a Samoa Joe match and found it piss boring, yet when he was in TNA I enjoyed his battle with Kurt Angle so it cant be just him.

Lucha Underground Ive never seen but TNA yeah followed it when it started only because I heard great things about the weekly PPVs when they had ex WWE stars there.

It's more Arnie who avertises WWE

Because he was "blessed" to have watched the Attitude Era as it happened. Quite what that has to do with backing the machine ive no idea.

I don't know, Its not something ive ever watched in a consistent basis. But no, I must have, I watch ANYTHING with WRESTLING in it

Well if you only watch WWE then your to pro WWE for your opinion to count.

If you do watch WWE and any other company then you watch to much wrestling for your opinion to count.

Haha, I only noticed that typo now. I had no idea what you were on about.

Off the top of my head apart from WWE, WCW & TNA ill pretty much watch any Territory from the 60s - 80s before McMahon bought the lot of em out but as far as indy promotions go well ECW will always be my first indy love but aside from that New Japan if it has any american wrestlers I know & I do have a fondness for AJW because its a real Womens Federation thats if its still around now. Maybe WWC or Memphis Wrestling.

Out of all the promotions that TWC aired in 2004 apart from ROH I used to absolutely hate with a passion CZW as it just seemed like guys smashing the hell out of each other with glass tubes which isnt really wrestling. No idea if its changed from when its started but ive never been a fan of backyard wrestling well unless its a videogame.

I'm pretty sure there's only one person kidding themselves in this equation.


Quite a lot actually. Although given that you're in Scotland and often give the impression that you're posting from the 1980s I could understand why you wouldn't know that.


If I'm not mistaken WWE stars appear on Sky Sports News every time they're in the UK. And Sky advertise the WWE Pay-Per-Views a lot. I'll also just note that I've noticed Raw jump onto the front page of the Sky OnDemand page recently.


I talk about wrestling quite a bit with a wide variety of people including people I work with. Some are current day fans, some lapsed fans and some not really fans at all and yet we're capable of talking about wrestling just as I'm capable of talking any other form of entertainment I consume.


Its certainly an acquired taste and I think this was particularly true of the first half of its existence where it had a very specific product and a very specific crowd that could be incredibly alienating.

I'll say this I loved the RoH product up until about 2006 and then very much fell out of love with it. I found my way back in 2009/2010 when Aries and Tyler Black had the belt but then dropped back out in 2011/12 and only dip in and out now although I'm trying to get back into the flow of it since I think its picked up again.

I see Jarrett is back to teasing a big GFW announcement which is definitely a real thing everybody. It exists. Its real.

Tna also teasing something for tonight's live impact