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TNA Wrestling on Challenge TV (Part 2)
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FMKK
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by seibu:
“I think that PWI decision is spot on.

There are 'news sources' which are using the downgrading of the TNA title as another excuse to laugh at TNA. But I think wrestling fans should be more worried about what it says about the shrinking wrestling industry that there is now only one viable world title.”

It seems ridiculous to me not to recognise the IWGP championship.
whedon247
30-06-2015
lol pwi think they are covering a sport.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Dixie is saying on Twitter that Impact has been getting big +3 rating gains for the past four weeks. Does anybody know if +3/+7 ratings are posted anywhere for WWE, TNA or ROH?
FMKK
30-06-2015
Just one last match to watch and I'll finally have caught up on this PPV.
dave_windows
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“Because... WCW.

In general I imagine the theory behind it was an attempt to stop the bleeding and keep the audience they still had with a promise that the future was brighter.


The WCW brand was completely toxic by this point to the extent that even with the incredibly successful and popular WWF brand backing it television networks still weren't willing to bite. As soon as the Turner networks made it clear they weren't going to keep WCW on the air the writing was on the wall and its hard to imagine anyone else was going to take the gamble on a 'new' WCW particularly not at the pricepoint that would have been needed to make the company viable for new investors who presumably wouldn't have been willing to write off millions like Turner was.”

I honestly wish Bischoff had been sold the rights to the company. Yeah TBS didnt want wrestling but at least Eric could have sold a tv deal to another company instead of Vince buying, gloating on TV and alot of talent getting released.
FMKK
30-06-2015
But he couldn't have sold a TV deal to another company. That was the whole problem. Even Vince couldn't get a TV deal for a WCW show.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by dave_windows:
“I honestly wish Bischoff had been sold the rights to the company. Yeah TBS didnt want wrestling but at least Eric could have sold a tv deal to another company instead of Vince buying, gloating on TV and alot of talent getting released.”

But would the outcome have been any different had Bischoff took the deal? WCW was built so successfully at least partly because Ted Turner would hand the cheque book over and Bischoff would take what he wanted. WCW without that kind of financial backer and a TV deal would have faced swift demise IMO and McMahon would probably have picked it up for a lot cheaper.

As Alexi said, the brand was toxic and it would have been a huge risk for Bischoff to buy WCW without a TV deal already in place. It also becomes obvious that Bischoff was very willing to take risks until his finances came under threat. The only thing Bischoff had to lose with Turner as owner was a job, Turner took the risks. When it came down to Bischoff taking the risk, he (rightly) buckled.
DejaVoodoo
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by dave_windows:
“I honestly wish Bischoff had been sold the rights to the company. Yeah TBS didnt want wrestling but at least Eric could have sold a tv deal to another company instead of Vince buying, gloating on TV and alot of talent getting released.”

As well as the reasons mentioned above, Turner executives partly blamed Bischoff for the demise of WCW, so were not going to let him get the company and potentially profit from it.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo:
“Turner executives partly blamed Bischoff for the demise of WCW, so were not going to let him get the company and potentially profit from it.”

I thought Bischoff's offer was accepted, it was Fusient that pulled out of the deal three days before Vince's purchase was confirmed
DejaVoodoo
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by Hollie_Louise:
“I thought Bischoff's offer was accepted, it was Fusient that pulled out of the deal three days before Vince's purchase was confirmed”

Kellner pulling the TV slots was the main reason it collapsed. He hated wrestling but supposedly other turner executives were not keen on Bischoff getting a deal, so weren't exactly upset that the TV slots were pulled.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo:
“Kellner pulling the TV slots was the main reason it collapsed. He hated wrestling but supposedly other turner executives were not keen on Bischoff getting a deal, so weren't exactly upset that the TV slots were pulled.”

It would have been simpler to just not accept the offer as they did though wouldn't it? If it was really just to keep Bischoff away.
James Frederick
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by dave_windows:
“I honestly wish Bischoff had been sold the rights to the company. Yeah TBS didnt want wrestling but at least Eric could have sold a tv deal to another company instead of Vince buying, gloating on TV and alot of talent getting released.”

Even more talent would have got released as Eric couldn't afford to pay them what WWE was offering nevermind what WCW was paying.
DejaVoodoo
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by Hollie_Louise:
“It would have been simpler to just not accept the offer as they did though wouldn't it? If it was really just to keep Bischoff away.”

Scrap what I said. I got confused. There was a story a while back that Brad Siegel wanted WWE to get WCW and added his weight to Kellner. Turns out that was rubbish.

http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircl...w_the_wwf_may/

Quote:
“ Response from Meltzer

It makes for a great story.

The Bischoff group lost some of its financing and also dropped out when Kellner made the call to cancel the shows. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of weird things and I knew of a Pittsburgh group, a New York group (Jeff Blatnick was involved in that group believe it or not) and Jarrett, who all wanted it. Bob Meyrowitz, who started UFC, spoke to me about buying it as well, but at the time he had business problems trying to save Eyada, which went down a few months later.

Ultimately, they chose the Bischoff group because it was backed by the guys who started ESPN Classics, but Kellner hated wrestling and wanted it off the air.

The B.S. is about Nitro being TNT's highest rated show. At the time, Nitro was doing just under the station's prime time average and getting well under average for ad rates. Plus, TNT itself wanted to be a high brow station and few knew it, but TNT was going to drop wrestling ASAP before Kellner.

Thunder on TBS was also doing well below average, but the station had a wrestling tradition. The plan was to keep wrestling on the station until Kellner came. Ted Turner, who knew of wrestling's cyclical ups and downs, would have fought to keep wrestling on TBS
but he had no power.

For all the talk of other suitors, TBS trusted none of their financing except for the Bischoff group and even they lost a key backer late. They'll say otherwise, and they may be correct. But all the deals were not cash up front, but based on being paid later from future profits that sounded like $20 million and $50 million but they didn't trust getting a dime, nor did they believe any of the buyers wouldn't declare bankruptcy in quick order because the company had been destroyed economically. With WWE, they knew they'd get what was promised, and, by that time, there was nobody else in the running.

WWE was the first choice to sell, but they had exclusivity with Spike. Vince went to Spike to try and get them to waive exclusivity so he could buy WCW and keep it on TBS & TNT (although not knowing TNT would have likely dropped it). Spike said we paid $28 million per year (considered way over market value at the time) for exclusive rights, so No. Vince told him that by owning both companies it would make the value of both go up but they weren't convinced.

Once Kellner made his call, the Bischoff group was under the gun to make a new TV deal. Eric had maybe two weeks to find a new home for the product because without the deal in hand and signed, his backers weren't going to spend the money to buy it, because without TV, the company was worthless. It was almost impossible to pull off. When they backed out, there was only one suitor, WWE, who got a fire sale deal.

The Siegel convincing Kellner story was bullshit. Barnett and I were friends talking regularly during this and he knew Kellner for a long time and Kellner hated wrestling. I remember calling him when I heard of the Kellner hiring and it was, "Holy shit, I'm going to be out of work,he hates wrestling."”

FMKK
30-06-2015
Does anyone seriously have any confidence that a Bischoff booked WCW in 2001 with no money would have been anything other than terrible anyway?

Speaking of Meltzer, I think it him who said that Bischoff wasn't in the wrestling business, he was in the Hogan business.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“Does anyone seriously have any confidence that a Bischoff booked WCW in 2001 with no money would have been anything other than terrible anyway?

Speaking of Meltzer, I think it him who said that Bischoff wasn't in the wrestling business, he was in the Hogan business.”

I don't believe they would ever have been able to pay those ridiculous contracts so WCW in 2001 would have been in the same predicament WWE was during the Invasion angle. Those big names that refused WWE's offering would have looked at their guaranteed contracts with Time Warner and decided to have sat them out and get paid rather than take a pay cut. IMO, the only difference would be the New WCW wouldn't have had Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Angle, Jericho and more.
James Frederick
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by Hollie_Louise:
“I don't believe they would ever have been able to pay those ridiculous contracts so WCW in 2001 would have been in the same predicament WWE was during the Invasion angle. Those big names that refused WWE's offering would have looked at their guaranteed contracts with Time Warner and decided to have sat them out and get paid rather than take a pay cut. IMO, the only difference would be the New WCW wouldn't have had Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Angle, Jericho and more.”

Wasn't one reason Hogan Nash ect were signed to Time Warner rather than WCW itself was to make the WCW books look better and more profitable as they didn't have millions going out.
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Wasn't one reason Hogan Nash ect were signed to Time Warner rather than WCW itself was to make the WCW books look better and more profitable as they didn't have millions going out.”

I imagine it was probably part of the reason. Ultimately it probably bit them on the arse quite hard when they realised their biggest names were going to have to be paid regardless of getting rid of WCW
James Frederick
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by Hollie_Louise:
“I imagine it was probably part of the reason. Ultimately it probably bit them on the arse quite hard when they realised their biggest names were going to have to be paid regardless of getting rid of WCW”

Yeah what Vince paid didn't even cover one of the contracts never mind all of them.
FMKK
30-06-2015
If Vince had have picked up Hogan, Goldberg and Sting on the same money or similar money to the Time Warner contracts, he would have made his money back in one PPV.
James Frederick
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“If Vince had have picked up Hogan, Goldberg and Sting on the same money or similar money to the Time Warner contracts, he would have made his money back in one PPV.”

Doubt on one PPV they were on millions each.

Plus they didn't want buying out even for the same price as they got paid for staying at home.
AlexiR
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“If Vince had have picked up Hogan, Goldberg and Sting on the same money or similar money to the Time Warner contracts, he would have made his money back in one PPV.”

He really wouldn't have.
AlexiR
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Doubt on one PPV they were on millions each.

Plus they didn't want buying out even for the same price as they got paid for staying at home.”

Indeed. All of the WCW guys were offered outs on their Time Warner deals so they could negotiate and sign with WWE and for the most part they didn't take them. In large part because they knew Vince was never going to pay them that kind of money and they'd have to commit to a massive increase in their dates.
FMKK
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“He really wouldn't have.”

Book Summerslam in a big stadium, run Hogan/Goldberg vs Austin, print money.
JCR
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“Book Summerslam in a big stadium, run Hogan/Goldberg vs Austin, print money.”

IIRC Austin told Goldberg this at the time and Goldberg didn't want to know. Neither Austin or Hogan were prepared to lose clean to each other
Hollie_Louise
30-06-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“If Vince had have picked up Hogan, Goldberg and Sting on the same money or similar money to the Time Warner contracts, he would have made his money back in one PPV.”

I really doubt it.
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