On a stand point yes I do in a way agree because of his neck and hes one bad move away from being Paralysed or has that changed since his match with Styles?

Only way it's changed is it's getting even worse.

The tumor must have come from this.

Alexi, don't "conspiracy theory" me. Where have I said it's a conspiracy? You're worse than the CIA

It's not a conspiracy. It's the natural consequence of an unregulated monopoly. WWE's dominance of US wrestling shows why there's a monopolies and mergers commission for major industries. A monopoly like WWE have had since 2001 leads to cronyism, stagnation, the holding down of talent, and ultimately a declining industry. In other words exactly what we're seeing right now.

BTW 'The Rule' isn't that you can't have worked anywhere else, it's that you can't have been a significant name for somebody recognised as a competitor. WWE finally figured out that to use somebody prominently who was a big name for your competitor legitimises that competitor. You think Joe, AJ, Angle weren't desperate to go to WWE basically all the time? Like any wrestler serious about their career? But the door was firmly shut. And BTW Joe will do precisely nothing of any note in WWE, as was always the plan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If there is room in the US market for a successful, touring, nationally televised second promotion, where is it?

Nxt..

Exactly. And WWE own that. It's still a monopoly.

NXT lives on WWE life support. Production crews, logistics, advertising, brand awareness, cross-promotion. Could NXT have existed and grown as it has as an organisation independent of WWE? Of course not.

How can you possibly know that? You have no idea how NXT would be independent of WWE.

There are probably more wrestling companies on television this year (in America) than there has been for years and years.

Which ones?

NXT independent of WWE:

- Needs capital investment to even start up. Where does that come from?
- Has to employ own production crew, music composers, set designers, costume people. It's an army of backstage staff they can use from WWE.
- Cannot say to venues and talent they have the security of being WWE with respect to payment, insurance etc.
- Cannot offer talent an obvious career path to the WWE main roster.
- Does not get promoted on WWE shows. How would anybody hear about it?

If you think that's still a viable business, fine. You're wrong though.

WWE, TNA, ROH, NJPW, PPW, HOH, Lucha Underground all have or have had in 2015 television shows airing on US national television. The NWA has just signed a deal with AXS to return to national television in September. And I'm sure I'm missing some off that list. Maybe I'm wrong about it being more than it has been but it certainly feels like it considering no U.S. broadcaster is interested in wrestling programming.

Sorry how exactly did TNA get started?

In an entirely different era, with great difficulty, over many years. I note GFW is pointedly *not* getting started right now. The market has shrunk too much.

There are many more TV stations and TV shows than there have ever been before. Put it this way: What percentage of the total TV audience watch wrestling now, compared to 2001?

lmao are people seriously arguing that NxT would work just aswell without wwe money?????????????

thats like saying new york city would be MLS contenders without man city owners money.(actually a franchise team in MLS is easier than setting up a wrestling company!) some real tna hate for anyone to say nxt would be better if not a part of wwe. IT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME,IT IS MADE FROM WWE MONEY.

fmkk-did you not learn from your undertaker mistake? stop telling people to retire.

however for angle i would like to see him rejoin wwe and wrestle 6 big matches over next 2-3 years then retirec

House Of Hardcore, TV deal. Paragon Pro Wrestling, TV deal. To my knowledge, both running shows, both having some form of success, both have no link to WWE. GFW is a start up, most startups aren't a success straight away surely?

Who knows where GFW will be in 12 months time. I'm not saying everybody will be successful but I absolutely don't buy the idea that nobody will be successful in what appears to be an attempt to absolve TNA for as much blame as is possible for their wide and varied failures. You said it yourself, GFW's first TV taping got an audience that looked a similar size to a 13 year old company with a decade on national television and I'm going to presume the GFW audience actually paid to watch. That is a base to grow from

I'm not saying more people are watching wrestling. You have claimed there isn't a desire from national television companies for wrestling in 2015. I'm pointing out there obviously is with the amount of new wrestling shows/companies on national television at some point in 2015.

that i agree with

tna have messed up. there is absolutely room for a number 2 company, it just needs to be good.

to be legit number 2 you must look the part. skimping on costs with terrible sets,lighting and themes is a stupid idea.

Actually whedon, I've not actually said NXT would be better without WWE money and even if I did, it is in no way an example of hatred of TNA.

No you absolutely don't get to have it both ways on this. You don't get to declare that TNA have struggled because WWE have black balled talent, stopped them running shows and flexed their 'commercial muscle' to somehow damage TNA and then in the next breath declare you aren't pushing a conspiracy theory designed to excuse TNA's failures.


No its absolutely a conspiracy theory that (as is so often the case with TNA fans) looks to blame everyone but TNA for TNA's failures. It isn't TNA's fault that they've failed to establish themselves as a viable number two or WWE alternative despite the exposure, stars, time and money they've had its WWE's fault.


The crucial flaw with this argument of course is that WWE don't actually have a monopoly.

It also once again looks to deflect attention away from TNA's own staggering and repeated failures and place the blame anywhere but at the feet of TNA. Once again it isn't TNA's fault that they've failed to establish themselves its the fault of the WWE and their fictional monopoly.


And again we're having our cake and eating it.

“WWE is a monopoly that black balls talent from its competitors”

Both of those points can't possibly be true. If WWE is a monopoly they don't have competitors who's talent they can black ball and if they have competitors who's talent they're black balling they can't possibly be a monopoly.

Over looking that point perhaps the bigger problem here isn't that WWE have black balled TNA talent but rather that in the space of more than a decade TNA have actually created remarkably little in the way of talent for WWE to sign. Outside of Samoa Joe and AJ Styles (one of whom currently works for WWE and the other they're reportedly interested in signing which throws something of a spanner in the works here) there aren't a whole lot of prominent home grown stars its also not clear that what little home grown talent they have, like Roode for example, would want to leave TNA and try their luck in WWE anyway. The grass isn't always greener and all that.

And just to highlight this point a little more here's the list of people who have held the TNA World Title since its introduction in 2007

Kurt Angle [x6]
Sting [x4]
Samoa Joe
Mick Foley
AJ Styles [x2]
Rob Van Dam
Jeff Hardy [x3]
Ken Anderson [x2]
James Storm
Bobby Roode [x2]
Austin Aries
Bully Ray [x2]
Chris Sabin
Magnus
Eric Young
Lashley [x2]
EC3

That's not exactly the most inspiring list of fresh new talent I've ever seen.


Samoa Joe turned down a WWE contract offer to work for TNA so no I don't think he was desperate to go to WWE the whole time. I also don't for a second believe that AJ Styles was particularly desperate to head to WWE at any point either given that he's not the kind of talent that thrives in that environment. That he's opted to go work in Japan since leaving TNA rather than trying to land a WWE deal would be a pretty good indicator that he's not dying for a WWE run as well.

The use of Kurt Angle here meanwhile makes little to no sense to me. He was a major star for WWE before he went to TNA. I don't doubt they'd happily welcome him back with open arms if he weren't such a physical wreck. And indeed that appears to be the general takeaway with Angle's flirting with a WWE return a while back. They were interested until they found out just how badly beat up he was and decided it wasn't a good idea.

But even if we go along with what you're saying as true I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. I'm not sure how talent wanting to work for WWE is either the fault of WWE or somehow responsible for TNA's inability to succeed. This talent was signed with TNA and for a decent chunk of time was really invested, motivated and turning in brilliant performances (that they tuned out toward the end of their runs is hardly the fault of WWE either) that TNA couldn't capitalise on that isn't the fault of WWE. Presumably going along with your theory that every wrestler wants to work for WWE, RoH and every other company on the planet has the same problem yet it doesn't result in them spectacular failures we've seen from TNA.


TNA have had more than a decade of prime time national television exposure. The notion that there isn't space for a number two company when that's been the case is flawed to say the least. Again this is the mentality that its the fault of anyone or anything other than TNA. Its the WWE, its the industry, its the talent. No its TNA.

This assumes that NXT would be the exact same promotion that it is now which isn't necessarily the case.

The production values of NXT certainly benefit from being under the WWE umbrella but in terms of the actual content or shows themselves they're not a million miles away from any number of successful indies. There's really no reason to believe that NXT wouldn't be able to survive as an indy without WWE backing. It presumably wouldn't be as big as it is now but it could certainly run shows and survive.


Wrestling promotion isn't immediately a huge success? Stop the presses!

Firstly, you're right about NXT. It wouldn't exist without the WWE finance and the whole point is for them to show that HHH can manage a promotion. Not sure what that has to do with TNA hatred though. Seibu just likes to think that poor old TNA never had a chance, despite the fact that they had a ton of advantages.

Secondly, what is this great big mistake I was supposed to have learned from? I said the Undertaker should retire and I've seen or heard nothing to change my mind. As for Angle, his body is an absolute mess, he looks like shit, he can't work at anywhere near the standard he used to and he's one dodgy bump away from being paralysed or worse. If you think that's a healthy state to continue wrestling in then fine, but I just don't want him to end up in a wheelchair.

What would internet debate be without constant straw-manning, eh?

I've never said TNA should be absolved from its failures, and I've never said it never stood a chance. It's screwed up loads of times, and it probably did have a chance to grow into something bigger around 2009. A chance which it blew.

What I'm actually saying here is that WWE's current de facto monopoly in the US is bad for wrestling, which it clearly is. And although TNA did screw up, the bigger picture is that WWE's dominance has crushed the demand for a second US promotion, which it has. And with NXT, deliberately and cynically so.

Watch WWE now crush RoH in exactly the way it did TNA. And watch the WWE apologists try and make out that it's somehow a good thing.

I'd also say TNA had a shot as the #2/alternative promotion. Part of the reason they failed is they chose to not be alternative, they chose to be the poorly executed illegitimate child of the WWE. If they chose to not be alternative, how can people complain that they failed to make it as an alternative.

you said taker was frail and couldnt move prior to mania. he entered bulky and had a good match with bray wyatt. its that simple

we have heard how 1 bump could hurt angle for 5 years now, yet hes still ok. and his matches are better than alot of wrestlers who are fully fit. as i said though i would like him to work reduced schedule in wwe, he is wasted in TNA

as for nxt, you know i am a big fan, it is more enjoyable than tna by a country mile. but it would not be without wwe. it did not have to go through the challenges tna has. glad we agree on that.

this i cannot agree with. tna always presented itself as "wrestling" and very very rarerly did it focus on sports entertainment, the times it did were the best in the companies history for me.

wrasslin does not work for wwe, it will not work for tna.

crash tv format needs to come back. no need for vulgair language and scantly clad women, but short matches and quick promos/backstage skits etc need to come back for a show to flow and become popular again.