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TNA Wrestling on Challenge TV (Part 2)
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seibu
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“Like this one which has WWE running everyone (including TNA) out of business.

Or this one where TNA have struggled to make it because 'WWE'.

Or this one where its all the fault of the 'WWE monopoly'.

Or this one where again its the evil WWE monopoly to blame and not TNA.

Or this one wher 'WWE have basically managed to "passive aggressive" TNA to death'

Or this one which looks to blame WWE for TNA's woes as well 'I still think that even without those failings they faced an uphill battle against the corporate juggernaut that is WWE'

But remember seibu hasn't at all tried to blame WWE for TNA's problems. Maybe I wrote all those posts for him to 'exaggerate' his position.”

You've just illustrated my point beautifully! You can't let my posts speak for themselves, you have to give a little strawmanning gloss for each one.

I stand by every one of my posts. In each case you take little bits out of context or radically misinterpret my position, ignoring any nuance.

I'm tired of repeating myself. My views are in my posts, not Alexi's cartoonish exaggerations of them.
dave_windows
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“I was a bit confused by Challenges showing of Slamiversary 2006 last night, Challenge, the Freeview EPG and the announcers all said it was 2006 yet they kept saying TNA started 3 years ago (2006), didn't TNA start in 2002 making it 4 years ago sombody somehwere can't count heh.

Considering the fuss they make of Chris Melendez being a hero and wrestling with with an artificial leg, they seem to have forgotten that back in 2006 there was someone fight entirely one legged which seems more impressive. TNA seems to have the Continuity and Memory of a particularly thick goldfish.”

I think because it was called NWA on TNA back in 2002 even though it was TNA unless they mean TNA started when they debuted the TNA title. Bloody bad memories the lot of em selected amnesia.
JCR
30-07-2015
Today is the greatest day in the history of our sport people.

In what may be a taping for the final DA impact, spoiler
Spoiler
Bigfoot
turned up in the impact zone.

Spoiler photo- https://twitter.com/MrJacobCohen/sta...655168/photo/1
AlexiR
31-07-2015
Originally Posted by seibu:
“You've just illustrated my point beautifully! You can't let my posts speak for themselves, you have to give a little strawmanning gloss for each one.

I stand by every one of my posts. In each case you take little bits out of context or radically misinterpret my position, ignoring any nuance.

I'm tired of repeating myself. My views are in my posts, not Alexi's cartoonish exaggerations of them.”

Yeah I'm really ignoring the nuance, misinterpreting and taking out of context things like this:

Oh yeah on WWE vs RoH, in my opinion its only a matter of time before WWE runs every other promotion except local indies out of business.
-Link

I think it's not so hard outside the US. In the US, WWE have a total stranglehold on the industry. Performers don't want to work anywhere else because they'll be blackballed by WWE. WWE can flex their commercial muscle, asking venues not to host other promotions, as they've allegedly done to TNA when Impact was touring and RoH more recently. And US fans are extremely brand-loyal to WWE.
-Link

It's not a conspiracy. It's the natural consequence of an unregulated monopoly. WWE's dominance of US wrestling shows why there's a monopolies and mergers commission for major industries. A monopoly like WWE have had since 2001 leads to cronyism, stagnation, the holding down of talent, and ultimately a declining industry. In other words exactly what we're seeing right now.

BTW 'The Rule' isn't that you can't have worked anywhere else, it's that you can't have been a significant name for somebody recognised as a competitor. WWE finally figured out that to use somebody prominently who was a big name for your competitor legitimises that competitor. You think Joe, AJ, Angle weren't desperate to go to WWE basically all the time? Like any wrestler serious about their career? But the door was firmly shut. And BTW Joe will do precisely nothing of any note in WWE, as was always the plan.

-Link

I've never said TNA should be absolved from its failures, and I've never said it never stood a chance. It's screwed up loads of times, and it probably did have a chance to grow into something bigger around 2009. A chance which it blew.

What I'm actually saying here is that WWE's current de facto monopoly in the US is bad for wrestling, which it clearly is. And although TNA did screw up, the bigger picture is that WWE's dominance has crushed the demand for a second US promotion, which it has. And with NXT, deliberately and cynically so.

Watch WWE now crush RoH in exactly the way it did TNA. And watch the WWE apologists try and make out that it's somehow a good thing.

-Link

As we can see from the above quotes you've repeatedly made the argument that its actually the big bad evil WWE to blame for TNA's failings and then when you got called on that you've decided to pretend that's not what you said (presumably because that's easier than actually defending the position you were advancing). If you're going to go the "that's not what I said" route you should probably do it in a medium where the things you've said aren't recorded.
dave_windows
31-07-2015
Originally Posted by JCR:
“Today is the greatest day in the history of our sport people.

In what may be a taping for the final DA impact, spoiler
Spoiler
Bigfoot
turned up in the impact zone.

Spoiler photo- https://twitter.com/MrJacobCohen/sta...655168/photo/1”

That ol Matt Hardy! He he he.
JCR
01-08-2015
Russo seems to be losing the plot a wee bit- Russo calls Dixie.
dave_windows
01-08-2015
Originally Posted by JCR:
“Russo seems to be losing the plot a wee bit- Russo calls Dixie.”

Hes lost the plot since 2001.
James Frederick
01-08-2015
Originally Posted by JCR:
“Today is the greatest day in the history of our sport people.

In what may be a taping for the final DA impact, spoiler
Spoiler
Bigfoot
turned up in the impact zone.

Spoiler photo- https://twitter.com/MrJacobCohen/sta...655168/photo/1”

Surley he means

Spoiler
The YetAAAAA
AlexiR
01-08-2015
James Storm confirming on Twitter that he's worked his last dates for TNA. Worthy of note because this apparently leaves Abyss as the only TNA original left.

Originally Posted by dave_windows:
“Hes lost the plot since 2001.”

He lost the plot long before that.
dave_windows
01-08-2015
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“James Storm confirming on Twitter that he's worked his last dates for TNA. Worthy of note because this apparently leaves Abyss as the only TNA original left.


He lost the plot long before that.”

When he pissed away WCW in 99? Yeah I agree with that.
seibu
01-08-2015
Alexi, thanks for quoting all my posts on this issue, which I stand by. As you can see from reading them, I do think the existence of WWE, and some other external factors, have contributed to the failure of TNA, as well as some of TNA's own mistakes.

I can't believe this is such a radical point of view to you. Seems common sense to me.
hazydayz
01-08-2015
TNA taking their last dig at ROH as their first airing has been replaced by a Bigfoot TV show so why not have Bigfoot turn up on TV!
seibu
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by hazydayz:
“TNA taking their last dig at ROH as their first airing has been replaced by a Bigfoot TV show so why not have Bigfoot turn up on TV!”

Oh right is that what that's about?

I miss that kind of interpromotional beef, and I'm glad TNA are reviving it.

And before anyone says: "you wouldn't like it if WWE took digs at TNA", actually I would. And it's the lack of public acknowledgement of TNA, positive or negative, which is what I mean when I say WWE has kind of " passive aggressived TNA to death". They (correctly) realise that referencing TNA on air in any way, no matter how subtle, would actually help them. It's a smart corporate move which suits the modern WWE. But it's no fun at all, like the modern WWE.
Hollie_Louise
02-08-2015
Just to be clear, with you saying positive or negative, you would like it if WWE spoke about the Spike situation, the ratings situation, the lack of paying fan situation? How on earth would that help TNA?

"Hey guys, look there is this promotion called TNA, or IMPACT Wrestling nobody knows, and they keep whining about us damaging their growth but nobody in the company can actually give a single example of this. So to give them a helping hand, we've given them our attention that they seemingly crave so much. You should go and watch their shows, it's free to get in if you're in Orlando Studios. Maybe buy their PPVs, but they've only one left this year. You can tune into watch them Wednesday nights on Destination America, don't worry WWE Universe we've never heard of it either. Go and watch some of the biggest names in WWE over the past decade who we didn't want anymore."

Thinking about it, yeah I think it's a promo WWE should make. It might inspire some in TNA to wake up.
James Frederick
02-08-2015
When TNA ever mentioned WWE even they acted like WWE was far better and more important than them.

Look at the time with Hogans HOF Ring they acted like that was a better prize than the TNA World Championship.
seibu
02-08-2015
A witty, funny dig at TNA by WWE would be great and I'd like to see it. They'd never do it though because the current WWE management & culture is too conservative.

And it would help TNA because TNA's main problem is that 90% of WWE fans don't know or barely know TNA exists. Plus wrestling is an ecosystem - note how Impact ratings used to benefit in the runup to Wrestlemania.
seibu
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“When TNA ever mentioned WWE even they acted like WWE was far better and more important than them.

Look at the time with Hogans HOF Ring they acted like that was a better prize than the TNA World Championship.”

Yep. And I liked that approach, because it's true. And wrestling works best when its grounded in reality.
James Frederick
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by seibu:
“Yep. And I liked that approach, because it's true. And wrestling works best when its grounded in reality.”

So basiclly saying we suck you would be better off watching them is a good idea.
Hollie_Louise
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by seibu:
“A witty, funny dig at TNA by WWE would be great and I'd like to see it. They'd never do it though because the current WWE management & culture is too conservative.

And it would help TNA because TNA's main problem is that 90% of WWE fans don't know or barely know TNA exists. Plus wrestling is an ecosystem - note how Impact ratings used to benefit in the runup to Wrestlemania.”

Or it would never happen because WWE would gain nothing from it, regardless of any conservative mindset. And because if they actually did make a dig, people would complain that WWE is trying to target TNA. As I said the other day, God help TNA if McMahon ever tried to actively put them down.

But hey, if you want WWE to actively mock TNA why the hell not.
dave_windows
02-08-2015
I miss the TNA humour when they had someone with a Vince and Hunter mask and he kept screaming dammit.
FMKK
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by seibu:
“Yep. And I liked that approach, because it's true. And wrestling works best when its grounded in reality.”

TNA has had a long history of burying it's own product and it's got them nowhere. Why should I watch a show and wrestlers that acknowledge that they're second rate?
James Frederick
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“TNA has had a long history of burying it's own product and it's got them nowhere. Why should I watch a show and wrestlers that acknowledge that they're second rate?”

I can just see other companies doing the same thing in their ads.

Pepsi> Buy Coke it's better than us.

Burger King> Go to Mcdonalds their burgers are better than what we serve.

Domions> Want a good Pizza go to Pizza Hut what some 2nd rate slop come here.

Tesco> Go to Asda it's cheaper.
dave_windows
02-08-2015
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“I can just see other companies doing the same thing in their ads.

Pepsi> Buy Coke it's better than us.

Burger King> Go to Mcdonalds their burgers are better than what we serve.

Domions> Want a good Pizza go to Pizza Hut what some 2nd rate slop come here.

Tesco> Go to Asda it's cheaper.”

Burker King burgers are horribly over priced!
seibu
03-08-2015
Acknowledging that WWE are the bigger company is not saying "we suck". It's acknowledging reality. There's tonnes of comedy potential in it. I haven't actually seen that bit with HHH and McMahon masks but it sounds ace.

There's a lot to be said for acknowledging you're an underdog. It's nothing like saying 'we suck'.

And I already pointed out that WWE gain nothing from acknowledging TNA. TNA gain nothing from acknowledging RoH, but they do it anyway because it's entertaining. And that in a nutshell is one of the crucial differences in approach between WWE and TNA. WWE preserve the 'brand' above all else, even if its boring and formulaic as hell. TNA do fun stupid stuff even if it might harm them. And as a viewer, not a shareholder, I applaud that. You guys all act like you've got a financial interest in WWE (and in some cases you have). I'm just a viewer who wants to be entertained. I honestly feel that's what's at the heart of most of our disagreements.
Hollie_Louise
03-08-2015
Every time you bring up the financial interest in WWE you end up apologising for it and saying you regret doing it, you obviously don't regret doing it because you keep doing it.

If you think a company should do stupid stuff even if it harms the company, you're crazy. Like I said, I'm not against WWE actively mocking TNA, I encourage it. The possibilities for material are endless. At least then you and Dixie would have something to actually show any evidence of TNA being damaged by WWE.
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