for once we agree

since day 1 IWC have wanted TNA to fail, i remember being laughed at for being stupid enough to think TNA would make it past 3 years, then 5, then 7, then 10

one day perhaps it will die and they will say haha we told you so, pathetic.

and all because TNA didnt try to be ROH on a national scale.

I watch both TNA / WWE every week & enjoy both of em! (looking forward 2 hardcore justice this Wednesday @ 22:00 via challenge)

This.

It's fun to speculate about what's going on behind the scenes of wrestling companies, but it's crazy to treat internet (or dirtsheet) rumour as fact. And, of course, 99.9% of TNA speculation tends to be negative.

It's hilarious to me that people think they can accurately calculate whether TNA's monthly PPVs were profitable. They may have been, they may not have been, we have absolutely *no* *idea*. But when the internet or dirtsheets "calculate" it, guess what? 9 times out of 10 it's a result with a negative spin for the underdog company. Who would have guessed?

Which is more likely?:

a) A company who have been running for ten years and who people depend on for their livelihoods, is run completely incompetently at every stage, making decisions which defy logic and reason, on a daily basis?

b) Newsletter writers looking for an attention grabbing headline and wanting to keep in with the 'E, tend to report something coming from only one, unofficial source as fact. And people casually discussing wrestling on the internet who want to appear knowledgeable hedge their bets by predicting an underdog's failure?

Taking iMPACT! live on Monday nights against Raw doesn't defy logic?

Taking iMPACT! on the road when their house shows don't sell doesn't defy logic?

Getting rid of the six-sided ring, one of very few things that differentiated them from WWE, doesn't defy logic?

Bringing in people like Bischoff and Hogan at the expense of a women's division and young fresh talent doesn't defy logic?

Having Dixie Carter on her knees wrapped around Hogan's legs practically begging him to stay in his last appearance, thus putting him and his ego over, doesn't defy logic?

Have the executive producer of your #1 television show sitting at home sitting out his contract instead of using him doesn't defy logic?

Booking a live event in a school that draws 800 people doesn't defy logic when you have a legend like Sting on the card? The 'One Night Only' events, filming nine months in advance. don't defy logic?

4 sided ring is much better than 6 sides for look and match quality.

only people who want CMLL impact like it more.

tna have made changes that have improved it, they should have stuck with monday night slot. it only takes word of mouth to get things changing.

lots to improve mind, nowhere near as creative as it should be and roster is looking depleted.

Six sides added another dimension to matches. I've never watched CMLL so has no impact on how I view TNA. For the X Division, something else that faltered under Hogan and Bischoff, it was great.

Monday night was a dumb move. All it did was show that TNA was at nowhere near a level that they could compete with WWE. They were on Monday nights for 3 months and ratings flatlined and had to go back to Thursday nights. Again, it was Bischoff and Hogan's ego trying to get one up on Vince and it failed spectacularly.

The half arsed attempt at changing the name from TNA Wrestling to IMPACT Wrestling, another stupid move. There is no mention of the company name in their logo or on their website. It's logo is IMPACT WRESTLING, yet the company is TNA IMPACT WRESTLING. It's all about a brand, a brand that now is confused.

Jeff Jarrett being sidelined, another move that defies logic. Jarrett should have been #1 in the Hall Of Fame. Yes it actually means nothing, but it still should have happened. Now the company is without the man that founded it.

AJ Styles, how can you let a man who practically defines what your company was about, an alternative, walk out of your company as champion. Why is Dixie Carter playing a crap version of Vince and Stephanie? Jarrett should have remained the on-screen owner of the company because he can work a crowd and a microphone. Dixie should have concentrated on getting her company in order than doing a terrible job of being on-screen.

The vast majority of the TNA audience do not go on hardcore wrestling websites, so thus hardcore websites are not influencing them. Those people appear to have made their own minds up about TNA and thus don't appear to want to invest any of their money in TNA merchandise, PPV's or house shows.


If the figures are poor, then what do you want them to do?

If TNA was doing well, they would get praise from the major journalists. Just because TNA has largely survived for 11 years, doesn't give them a pass for some of the rubbish they've done over the years. Just like WWE doesn't get a pass either, however WWE are very successful business, so they get more leeway.




Outside of the bigger names, many of the smaller names are struggling to make a living with TNA. That's why many of them do other indies via TNA as a booking agent.


WWE have an embargo on their talent appearing on Wrestling Observer Radio so it's not exactly working is it??

Although relations have improved recently, that embargo is still in place.

Also the better the business does, the more people that subscribe to Newsletters. No one wants to see less competition in the industry, as it means interest in pro wrestling goes down and thus subscribers go down, hurting their businesses.


TNA got pumped on Monday nights. They had to move back. WCW had built up a core of their own audience and were able to fall back on them. Also some of Impacts were horrendous.

WWE don't have to do anything though, they have never acknowledged TNA exist, even when specifically called out during TNA TV, they never respond because there is no need.

I loved what TNA was, an alternative to WWE with people id never seen before. TNA before Hogan and Bischoff was brilliant, even with it looking like a third WWE brand because of all the ex-WWE people involved.

TNA under Bischoff and Hogan became a poor WCW, Immortal becoming nWo 2010, 11 ex-WWE superstars as the heels going over, including Hogan and Bischoff. Aces & Eights becoming nWo 2012 with 7 ex-WWE superstars as the heels going over.

what a coincidence the same people who hate on TNA also think the x-division is worthwhile.

its a cruiserweight title at best, nothing to build your company around.

TNA have messed it up mind you, they could have x matches to kick off ppvs like wcw used too and use the TV title for mid card elevation,but that title is pretty much forgotten too.

need a creative shake up.

Book a house show only to find out at show time that 60% of the talent involved can't appear because no one bothered to renew their licenses doesn't defy logic?

Have one of their top talents being repeatedly arrested for DUIs and have him sent to rehab ON WWE'S EXPENSE doesn't defy logic?

yet you continue to watch?

Yes because TNA can be turned around, with the right people involved. The last thing it needs is people turning off

but WWE doesnt get same aggro and thats a dull show creativly.

i find some people just love to back the machine sometimes.

The people in charge of WWE have proven records, Good and bad, But they have been brilliant at times. The people running TNA seem to have no idea and have dragged it down since the took over, Pre Carter i loved TNA

That's because you will never see Vince, Stephanie or Triple H clinging to the leg of somebody on their last appearance with the company begging them to stay. It's because there is a clear, defined leadership structure within the company. Vince McMahon is the boss, his word is final and if he doesn't like something, it gets changed instantly. It never went through people like Bischoff or Hogan.

WWE get a lot of aggro for their creative decisions, just go and read the WWE Thread and you will see it clear as day. TNA as a company and a brand is messed up, it will take a lot of money, time and effort to put it where it belongs.

It's great TNA are there, I want TNA as a company to survive but they are never going to do that if they don't rethink some of the things they do.

They need to:
1) Clearly set out whether the company is TNA, IMPACT WRESTLING, or TNA IMPACT WRESTLING.

2) Establish a clear, easy to understand management team. If Dixie is the person at the top of that chain, then she needs to be that person, not rely on people like Bischoff whose ego and complacency killed a company owned by a billionaire.

3) Find a new, fresh place to host IMPACT. It's clear the company can't take the show on the road because it doesn't draw fans. They need to find somewhere for six months, then find somewhere else for the next six because the Orlando crowd is burned out and not excited for anything.

4) Be alternative. Small(er) guys like Styles, Sabin, Shelley, Petey Williams, Christopher Daniels, Kazarian should be leading that company going forward, not Bully, Hardy, Angle, Sting, Anderson.

5) Revive what the X Division was. You may call it a cruiser weight division, but at least it's not the big guys running the show. It was fresh and exciting. Also, come back with a strong women's division. They had it once, it rivalled the generation of WWE Divas in the early 00s. Now it's a joke.

6) Stop using factions of 6/7 WWE guys as heels as an attempt to get your bloody company over. It doesn't work. A&8s could have been so much better but it was dragged out, it was full of WWE employees and it did hardly anything for anybody involved in it. Again, this is not WCW, this is not 1996. You have young TNA guys, you do not have to rely on somebody from WWE. Build your talent, don't just use the talent from the big business.

7) Get Dixie off screen. She is terrible on the microphone. If they want a heel owner, find somebody that can play the character. Don't just watch Mr McMahon promo and add in a Vickie Guerrero screech and expect it to get over, because it won't.

The Hogan thing was appalling, Nothing but his ego being massaged even though they knew he would not be back.

Vince McMahon has always come across like a slimy, lying, money obsessed, very intense gym freak workaholic control freak. His son-in-law seems to be a manipulative, devious, highly intelligent ego-maniacal control freak. Linda is said to have been the business brain. I haven't met them (of-course), but that's the impression I get from off screen appearances, demeanor and countless interviews.

Perfect personalities for leading company in a fickle entertainment industry, with a workforce consisting of testosterone charged tough guys.

Dixie Carter is probably too nice and not driven enough. McMahon had a crappy childhood by all accounts and an innovative nature, probably leading to that chip on the shoulder mentality and desire to succeed.

Other promoters had flaws too: Heyman maybe too laid back/one of the boys; Bischoff seemed to let it go to his head; Cornette and Watts - stuck in their ways etc.

I agree with all of this. Vince McMahon is probably money obsessed, egotistical, workaholic control freak, but he took an industry and changed it forever. For me, I think of wrestling, not just 'sports entertainment', and I think Vince McMahon. Would WWE be the giant that it is now if Vince wasn't all of those things?

Dixie does come across as a lovely woman, and I don't doubt she is very intelligent but she also comes across as very easy to influence, certainly under Hogan and Bisch. It seemed at the time Bischoff stopped caring about WCW, his focus was so much on what Vince McMahon was doing, how could they get one up on WWE, and that is a big factor in how WCW ended. With WCW, Bischoff had it all, he had power, he had a billionaire owner with his own television network and he still managed to allow his ego to destroy a company winning a war. "That will put asses in seats" stands out as a perfect example of that.

I just want TNA to be TNA. I want them to survive and thrive. As you say, Vince has a personality fitted to run a company like WWE, he hands it down to Stephanie who has only ever known WWE and has learned from probably the best and Trip who has an obvious love of the business, who is taking his time to learn how to run the business.

They can be so much bigger and with Hogan and Bischoff gone I believe that will be much easier. Refocus and plan the next step, it all seems so thrown together at points.

There is definitely an element of the online wrestling crowd who seem to want TNA to die a horrible death while supposedly wanting competition in wrestling. Bizarre and pretty spiteful. But that's not to say that there are not legitimate criticisms of TNA.

Hogan and Bishoff coming in has proven to be a folly. In 2009 they were riding pretty high; AJ was champ and putting on great matches, Angle was tearing it up with Wolf, WWE was lackluster and TNA seemed to have a style of their own. I can see why they brought in Hogan and Bishoff - name value. But there was no sustained ratings pop, Bishoff did the only angle he knows how to book, they became centre of attention and it was dull. 2012 was an improvement but 2013 has been tumultuous.

However, despite their setbacks the ratings remain pretty consistent which begs the question - why don't they try to do something a bit different? If they have an established core support who watch every week, why not try new things? Experiment? I mean, they're currently running an ad hoc version of the Authority angle in WWE with Dixie as a third rate Stephanie McMahon and Magnus not ready to be the top heel. There hasn't been much spark in the booking - we all knew that Bully would turn heel and join Aces & 8s (awful faction btw) and that AJ would win the title at BFG. That's almost a year where the entire main event scene has been predictable. Then there was the AJ contract debacle which has led to the current scenario.

Things aren't as bad as some make it out, but it's not great either and they could do and be a whole lot more than WWE-lite.

Okay..


It was an entirely logical thing to try. The internet thought so at the time too. The Monday Night Wars were the all-time high point of US pro wrestling. Why not try to recreate that?


Their house shows do sell. A large part of the internet was clamouring for Impact to tour. Everybody agreed it was the Impact Zone which was holding them back. Then they try it, and guess what? the internet now thinks it was a BAD idea! What a surprise.


That's your opinion. Lots of people prefer the traditional four-sided ring.


If you want to grow your company it makes perfect sense to bring in pro wrestling's all time biggest star, and the only man to ever give WWF a run for its money.


Made perfect sense from a storyline point of view. Set Dixie up as a heel. Was actually very funny.


Is this Bischoff? Make up your mind! Do you want him writing Impact or not? If somebody's failed (Aces and Eights failed, from a ratings perspective), it's completely reasonable to send them home.


If WWE did this people would be saying "What a gift to the fans! I wish I was at such an intimate show!" etc. etc.


Again, prior to them actually doing it, the internet insisted that TNA needed less live PPVs. Then they actually do it (filming ONOs to fulfill international contracts), and suddenly it's a bad idea! I love the internet.

great post seibu!

TNA is very, very far from perfect. What I'm saying is that the internet has a tendency to mix opinion and rumour and pass it off as "fact" when it comes to TNA.


I notice you avoid mentioning the one actual FACT we know about TNA's US audience: There are approx. 1.1 million TV viewers who will seemingly watch the show no matter what. Nobody has any idea about merchandise sales or PPV buys. Every house show is different - some sell out, but of course nobody ever talks about those!


But very often the figures aren't just poor, they're more or less made up. That's my point.


Impact could feature Steamboat / Savage followed by the debut of the NwO, followed by the declaration of world peace, and James Caldwell would still give it a bad review. Anyway, I'm not saying everybody has to like TNA. I'm saying people should stop repeating unsubstantiated rumours about TNA as fact.


I'm sorry, my "unsubstantiated rumour" detector actually exploded there.


I didn't know about this. It neatly demonstrates how big organisations can hold publications to ransom for positive coverage.


Totally agree. I don't think journalists lie awake at night plotting the downfall of TNA. But the FUD stories come from somewhere. Notice how they tend to appear across all the forums and newsletters at the same time (e.g. the "Sting in a gym" "story" the other day), so they're coming from somewhere!

ahah seibu you are on my wavelength...if only you loved vince russo too, i would marry you!

Because they were nowhere near ready to try and recreate the Monday Night War. The subsequent ratings proved that it wasn't the right thing to do. The War was a ratings hit because WCW and WWE were both big companies. It's a shame the internet thought a move that just proved how small league they were was the right thing to do, it's an even bigger shame the viewers didn't. If it was a great move, why did they go have to go back to Thursdays after three months?


They had an event in a school that drew 800 people. 800 people when Sting was advertised. That is piss poor. The IMPACT Zone did hold them back, the crowd was dead. They should have just moved to a new studio. They didn't have to take IMPACT on the road to breathe fresh life into the company.


That is my opinion yes.



Yeah bring in the biggest name in the industry, you don't make him the focus of your entire promotion. You also make sure he uses his star power to promote your company by wearing a bloody TNA tshirt when he appears on a national television programme that aired to 21.76 million people.


It makes no sense for the owner of the company to beg an employee to stay. There are plenty of ways to get someone over as a heel without getting on your knees and begging somebody to stay. It makes her look weaker than she already does.


As somebody that runs my own business, if I'm paying somebody to do a job, I expect them to be there doing it. I would never pay somebody to sit on their ass doing jack all. I want Bischoff gone, but I don't mean paying him whatever they are paying him when somebody like AJ Styles has walked out of the company.


No they wouldn't at all, they would get 10x the grief for it. If WWE ever did a house show to 800 people, in a school, they would get torn apart.


You don't film a pay-per-view nine months in advance. That is absolutely ridiculous. How does filming almost a year in advance make any logical sense? There are much better ways to do it.

tna have 4 main ppvs, the rest are just shows to fulfill commitment to ppv companies

makes financial sense to do cheap tapings and put them on when needed rather than do tapings for each ppv nearer the time, there would be pretty much no change if they did that.

these are 8 throwaway ppvs remember.