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Apple Watch
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clonmult
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by zx50:
“Yes, because getting it out of your pocket means that you have to spend a short amount of time positioning it so that you can see its face. When your watch is on your wrist though, it's just a case of simply lifting your arm up and turning it as you do so that you can see the watch face. I think watches will start changing to be more futuristic though. A watch simply being made for telling the time will change to one that can do quite a few things. Like the mobile phone, more features were added to it. I think the watch could go the same way.”

Until these watches have decent battery life, the old fashioned watches won't disappear. And at the high end, that some idiots seem to think the Apple Watch Edition is going to completely own, those aren't going to be touched in the slightest.

But going for one of these smartwatches so that you can save a few seconds here and there by checking your wrist rather than your phone is mildly pathetic, and speaks volumes of the use cases - they really are a solution looking for a problem.

Now, the purely fitness based device, they're very different devices.
calico_pie
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Whilst clearly not wanting to be associated with the ramblings of alan (!!) Apple are renowned for taking a much higher profit margin than most similar companies. So, theoretically, a £500 item from, say, HTC will get you more "bang for your buck" than a £500 item from apple as somewhere over 40% of the retail price will be down as "profit".

I assume that's what alan is trying to suggest but is coming up with extreme and incorrect facts and figures.

As per the card scenario if one company were selling cards on older style paper but charging significantly more money that all other card manufacturers were charging then they would probably be out of business pretty quickly ”

I certainly wouldn't argue with the fact that Apple have higher profit margins, I'm just disputing the figures which seem to be extreme and incorrect.

The card thing was only meant to illustrate that.

Regarding your last point, your argument only works if components tell the whole story.When it comes to mobile phones it clearly doesn't as it has been shown time and again that performance wise the iPhone matches or betters other phones with a better spec on paper.

So its not enough to compare devices simply by their spec list.

You need to demonstrate that devices with what appears to be a lower spec also have a (significantly) lower performance.
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I'm left handed, and watches are designed to be worn on the left wrist. However, I'm not sure I understand the issue with a smartwatch, because if you want to wear it on your right wrist, you just rotate the display.”

I think the issue, and why it keeps getting raised by those who are looking for negatives, is that if you put the watch on your right hand it is more awkward to operate the crown. however, does anyone remember the days when you had to turn a little crown to wind a watch - I don't remember a huge outcry then about watches being leftist.
zx50
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I'm left handed, and watches are designed to be worn on the left wrist. However, I'm not sure I understand the issue with a smartwatch, because if you want to wear it on your right wrist, you just rotate the display.”

Eh? I don't see how they are. I would have thought a left-handed person could easily fasten their watch onto their right wrist easily. It feels a bit weird for me, but that's because I'm right-handed.
Stiggles
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“Until these watches have decent battery life, the old fashioned watches won't disappear. And at the high end, that some idiots seem to think the Apple Watch Edition is going to completely own, those aren't going to be touched in the slightest.

But going for one of these smartwatches so that you can save a few seconds here and there by checking your wrist rather than your phone is mildly pathetic, and speaks volumes of the use cases - they really are a solution looking for a problem.

Now, the purely fitness based device, they're very different devices.”

The battery life even on existing watches is getting better. When i got my Gear Live last year, i could barely get a day out of it. Now i can pull 3 easily.

Interestingly, i only really wear my smartwatch at work so i can continue to get messages etc without having to pull my phone out all the time. When i'm out for the night or for a meal etc, its my normal watch i wear.
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“Doh ! Just realised the problem of a bezel on a square watch and why wheels are round ”

Doh ! I've just realised why the bezel patent was on a round watch

And doh ! I've just realised why many manufacturers are moving to round faces for their gen 2 or 3 versions

And probably a few more Doh's !
kidspud
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by zx50:
“Eh? I don't see how they are. I would have thought a left-handed person could easily fasten their watch onto their right wrist easily. It feels a bit weird for me, but that's because I'm right-handed.”

The crown on a watch (which even with auto winders are still used to set the time and adjust the date) are always on the right hand side of the watch. On chronograph watches the buttons are usually set to n the right.

It has nothing to do with being able to do a watch band up.
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I think the issue, and why it keeps getting raised by those who are looking for negatives, is that if you put the watch on your right hand it is more awkward to operate the crown. however, does anyone remember the days when you had to turn a little crown to wind a watch - I don't remember a huge outcry then about watches being leftist.”

Hmmmm. Turn a centrally placed crown once a day vs turning an offset crown as part of the functionality. Surely you can see there is a little difference ?

Its the offset thing that is the issue being raised - not the fact that lefties can't use their hands.
kidspud
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I think the issue, and why it keeps getting raised by those who are looking for negatives, is that if you put the watch on your right hand it is more awkward to operate the crown. however, does anyone remember the days when you had to turn a little crown to wind a watch - I don't remember a huge outcry then about watches being leftist.”

Am I missing something here? If you put the watch on your right hand, you rotate the watch and the crown is on the left side. Why does it make a difference?
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Am I missing something here? If you put the watch on your right hand, you rotate the watch and the crown is on the left side. Why does it make a difference?”

Yup. You are.

The crown position is not central. Presumably this is done for a reason, pushing it further up the watch for either aesthetic or functional reasons. Reversing it for a leftie (should they choose to wear it on their right wrist) puts it to the bottom of the unit. This either affects the aesthetics or the function depending on apples logic. Deal breaker ? Probably not. My point was purely that a rotating bezel (on a round watch just to clarify) is more leftie/rightie neutral than the current apple setup. A centrally located crown would also be leftie/rightie neutral.

I simply said I quite liked the idea of a rotating bezel control
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Hmmmm. Turn a centrally placed crown once a day vs turning an offset crown as part of the functionality. Surely you can see there is a little difference ?

Its the offset thing that is the issue being raised - not the fact that lefties can't use their hands. ”

Yes, I take your point about it being core functionality, but I don't see the significance of it being offset ?
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Doh ! I've just realised why the bezel patent was on a round watch

And doh ! I've just realised why many manufacturers are moving to round faces for their gen 2 or 3 versions

And probably a few more Doh's ! ”

I agree with Kidspud though - a round face is not very good for many display issues, including maps.
calico_pie
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I think this lefties card is overplayed. I am left handed and I'm not aware of any of my left handed friends (or myself for that matter) who wear their watch on their right hand. Although I do agree, a bezel is probably a better solution.”

I can see it potentially being an issue to be fair.

With a regular watch, you don't actually need to use the crown very often, and a lot of people might not have the watch on when they do use it.

Whereas this is designed to be used a lot more, and when the watch is being worn.

Although that might be a moot point if people don't wear it on their right hand. No idea what might be typical there - all I know is that I am right handed and wear a watch on my left hand.

Although thinking about it the crown is always on that side of regular watches, so maybe that means they are meant to be worn on the left wrist - I guess I'd never really stopped to think about it.

With the round v square thing - I think ultimately square has to be the most practical given the limited space for a screen as it maximises that space. Maybe there is an irony here in that people are being critical of Apple for not going for style over practicality.
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“The battery life even on existing watches is getting better. When i got my Gear Live last year, i could barely get a day out of it. Now i can pull 3 easily.
.”

I'm not sure if people here generally appreciate that even after the Apple Watch reaches low battery indication, it can continue to be used in a clock-only mode for 7 days.
kidspud
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Yup. You are.

The crown position is not central. Presumably this is done for a reason, pushing it further up the watch for either aesthetic or functional reasons. Reversing it for a leftie (should they choose to wear it on their right wrist) puts it to the bottom of the unit. This either affects the aesthetics or the function depending on apples logic. Deal breaker ? Probably not. My point was purely that a rotating bezel (on a round watch just to clarify) is more leftie/rightie neutral than the current apple setup. A centrally located crown would also be leftie/rightie neutral.

I simply said I quite liked the idea of a rotating bezel control ”

Oh right I didn't realise we were taking about such a trivial issue

However, on a normal standard watch, the crown is not leftie/rightie neutral, it is just not designed for left-handers at all.
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“Yes, I take your point about it being core functionality, but I don't see the significance of it being offset ?”

Its located near the top if you are a rightie - presumably for a design or function reason, but near the bottom if you are a leftie. Presumably this means you either get a lesser design impact or a more fiddly experience
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Oh right I didn't realise we were taking about such a trivial issue”

Which option is trivial ? Design or function ? Many apple owners claim that both are the reason they are willing to pay more for the hardware
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“A centrally located crown would also be leftie/rightie neutral.
)”

I'm not sure about that, it's not the fact that it's not central, it's more the fact that it's awkward to reach across the watch and operate the crown from a funny angle.
calico_pie
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Yup. You are.

The crown position is not central. Presumably this is done for a reason, pushing it further up the watch for either aesthetic or functional reasons. Reversing it for a leftie (should they choose to wear it on their right wrist) puts it to the bottom of the unit. This either affects the aesthetics or the function depending on apples logic. Deal breaker ? Probably not. My point was purely that a rotating bezel (on a round watch just to clarify) is more leftie/rightie neutral than the current apple setup. A centrally located crown would also be leftie/rightie neutral.

I simply said I quite liked the idea of a rotating bezel control ”

I don't see how the position of the crown (top or bottom) makes a difference either.

I assumed the potential issue would be with people wearing it on their right hand, making it fiddly to operate the crown with their left hand.
kidspud
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Its located near the top if you are a rightie - presumably for a design or function reason, but near the bottom if you are a leftie. Presumably this means you either get a lesser design impact or a more fiddly experience ”

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Which option is trivial ? Design or function ? Many apple owners claim that both are the reason they are willing to pay more for the hardware ”

Form and function are usually a compremise of each other. Users will determine whether apple have the balance right. Only from videos I've seen, I think it is a very good idea to have a zoom capability which doesn't need the screen.

Do you think a round display makes sense for a smartwatch? I think that is a function compremise.
Matt D
15-04-2015
I'm left handed, and have always worn watches on my right wrist.
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I'm not sure about that, it's not the fact that it's not central, it's more the fact that it's awkward to reach across the watch and operate the crown from a funny angle.”

No. The watch can be reversed for lefties which means no "reach across" issue. It does mean that the button is above the crown for lefties though.

Personally I'd force all lefties to learn to use things properly but my wife and son (both lefties) might get cross

I've still never said its a big issue.
I will still say I think a rotating bezel is a good alternative.
zx50
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“The crown on a watch (which even with auto winders are still used to set the time and adjust the date) are always on the right hand side of the watch. On chronograph watches the buttons are usually set to n the right.

It has nothing to do with being able to do a watch band up.”

Not all watches have crowns on them. Some watches are digital.
Stuart_h
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Form and function are usually a compremise of each other. Users will determine whether apple have the balance right. Only from videos I've seen, I think it is a very good idea to have a zoom capability which doesn't need the screen.

Do you think a round display makes sense for a smartwatch? I think that is a function compremise.”

Most manufacturers have decided round is the way forward. I tend to agree. I'm sure many won't.

Having used smartwatches for a couple of years I can honestly say I don't think I've ever felt a need to zoom to be honest. Certainly not on a regular basis.

But my point wasn't whether round watches were better than square or the merits of a zoom capability. Purely that a rotating bezel looked good to me.
tdenson
15-04-2015
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Its located near the top if you are a rightie - presumably for a design or function reason, but near the bottom if you are a leftie. Presumably this means you either get a lesser design impact or a more fiddly experience ”

Are you sure you are not reading too much into the layout of the two buttons. Surely they are offset to make best use of the available space. If one was central it would be too close to the other.
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