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Old 14-02-2013, 18:29
SheddyIan
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Red button text service on BBC channels seems to have changed a fair bit.

The menus look the same, but when you select a story it now takes the full page (there's no 1/4 screen video).

There's additional sections - Science and Technology have a section each, and there's more regionalisation (eg South East has county level index).

Looking at the index page, the list looks shorter though - can anyone work out what might have been removed to allow other areas to expand?

Ian
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Old 14-02-2013, 18:56
Sue_Aitch
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Well, the cull list is on page 998, along with other details. Search also for threads containing "Red Button" in the Broadcasting subforum and posts on the BBC Points of View "The BBC" messageboard as well as posts comments within http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/tags/Red_button.:)
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Old 14-02-2013, 19:17
oscar1
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Link not working --- included in link !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/tags/Red_button
Regards
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Old 14-02-2013, 19:19
Sue_Aitch
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Thank you kindly!
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Old 14-02-2013, 20:14
pk_bluenose
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Does anyone know if there are problems with this new red button service on specific set top boxes, my red button has been all over the place since yesterday evening, I'll get 2 or 3 pages in via the menus.. index..sport..football.. for example and it will just go back to tv randomly, also half the time there are no options for for the colour shortcuts on screen. I'm on a cheap Dion box at present and have tried a retune, although the box automatically adds and updates services itself without retuning.
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Old 15-02-2013, 07:03
Sue_Aitch
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Switch off, then remove the aerial. First time install to clear the memory. Then reboot: http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/digit...g.shtml#reboot. Leve everything off for a good 10-15 minutes. Check the batteries around in your remote just in case they are on their way out.

Replace the aerial and first time install. Re-do your favourites/channel deletions for your preferred channels.

If this does clear the problem, go to http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questi...hanges_feb2013 and under the heading Did this answer your question? go for the third choice.
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Old 15-02-2013, 08:12
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http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=156
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Old 15-02-2013, 13:25
David_Ayling
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my freeview dose not like red button now as every time i want to use it. all it dose is exit. i have done a First time install but it still exits. was ok before they started playing about with it.
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Old 15-02-2013, 14:13
Sue_Aitch
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See my post #6 above for advice.
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Old 15-02-2013, 14:50
Sue_Aitch
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Manufacturers' Helplines.
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Old 16-02-2013, 00:15
Sue_Aitch
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By the way, if still no joy, do use https://www.radioandtvhelp.co.uk/dia...&uid=421763782 to report the problem.
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Old 16-02-2013, 15:15
richhol
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The recent changes have clearly upset certain text/red button systems. No issues with a Sony TV, but as a few people have reported, my much newer 2009 Sharp TV (LC26D44) also exits completely out of text when pages are selected. Transmitter is Sutton Coldfield and all BBC SD channels show the problem.

A full reset including firstly wiping the channels (scan with no aerial) makes no difference. It doesn't exit 100% of the time; sometimes you can move around a few pages, but it will unexpectedly exit within a few page selections.
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Old 16-02-2013, 17:42
David (2)
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i dont like it. looks less and more crude than before - i liked the tv pic running alongside. I might even think they are trying to make it look more like old style teletext, or save bandwidth (or both). Maybe this is a move to scale back the service (as nobody uses it anyway....or at least thats one impression i get).


BBC, please undo the change!
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Old 16-02-2013, 17:59
mossy2103
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i dont like it. looks less and more crude than before - i liked the tv pic running alongside. I might even think they are trying to make it look more like old style teletext, or save bandwidth (or both).
And yet, I recall comments on DS previously complaining about the quarter-screen being too small, that the video was distracting, and that the page layout meant that only a couple of sentences would fit onto that quarter screen, meaning stories went over two and sometimes three pages, with only a short sentence on that third page, or that the layout was a step backwards from good old Ceefax!

Can't win 'em all.


As for the comment regarding saving bandwidth, as it's a MHEG application running on the viewer's kit, the bandwidth is being used to deliver full-screen broadcast video regardless as to whether the viewer watched the full screen or the Red Button service (note that you get the reduced-size video of the channel that you are on - Red Button itself is not 301)

And no, there wqas nowt wrong with the old-style teletext layout 9as many on here have commented previously).
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Old 17-02-2013, 07:05
Sue_Aitch
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/...y#dna-comments
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Old 17-02-2013, 08:59
mossy2103
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So if the BBC reinstated the quarter screen, what about those who (even on DS forums) have previously asked for the pages to be full-screen like Ceefax was, those (even on DS forums) who have said that they find the video distracting, and those (even on DS forums) who were annoyed by the quarter-screen layout only allowing for a couple of sentences at most, meaning that most news items were split over two or three pages?
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Old 17-02-2013, 09:10
Mark Smith
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One of the nice things about the old teletext services on analogue TV was that you had the choice of normal size text, double height or mix mode, where the black background disappeared so you could see the video behind the text. Mix mode was often hard to read though.

I can see the BBC getting so many complaints from both sides about quarter screen video that they may consider using 0 to switch between full screen text, half screen text with quarter screen video or full screen video with the current page still loaded in the background. That way everyone is happy, but don't know if they would be willing or able to do this. I'm sure it wouldn't require more bandwidth because the receiver would just change the formatting of the existing content as required.
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Old 17-02-2013, 10:24
David (2)
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a format changer button would be cool!
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Old 17-02-2013, 11:13
mossy2103
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One of the nice things about the old teletext services on analogue TV was that you had the choice of normal size text, double height or mix mode, where the black background disappeared so you could see the video behind the text. Mix mode was often hard to read though.

I can see the BBC getting so many complaints from both sides about quarter screen video that they may consider using 0 to switch between full screen text, half screen text with quarter screen video or full screen video with the current page still loaded in the background. That way everyone is happy, but don't know if they would be willing or able to do this. I'm sure it wouldn't require more bandwidth because the receiver would just change the formatting of the existing content as required.
Most, if not all of those options are likely to be dependant upon the receiver, not the broadcaster.

For example, the double-height option was certainly a teletext decoder option, available on one of my old TVs but not on other sets.

Using 0 might also be TV-dependent (aka the firmware) - if so then given that most TVs and PVRs out there are unlikely to get firmware updates ,,,,,,,
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Old 17-02-2013, 11:57
AngusMast
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MHEG can certainly do different sized text, upto about double the height of the regularly used size.

AFAIK the frames and content of MHEG are described seperately, so I wouldn't think it would be such a big deal to have a format changer, and it would not take up a lot more bandwidth. One idea would be to have a different layout on BBC News, BBC Parliament or 105 for the visually impaired.

Pressing 0 is already used to hide the text screen to allow quick access to the tv picture.

Programming an MHEG system seems to be quite tricky, the BBC had a stable system running, I don't think they wanted to have to fiddle with it. In the early days of DTT Teletext Ltd's digital service was notorious for crashing, I don't know it this was purely down to buggy receivers, but they were pushing the technology to the limits. The BBC on the other hand, kept their system very simple, and improved it later.

IMHO Skytext is a better implementation of text on DTT then BBC is or Teletext was. Skytext kept things similar to "analogue" Teletext and was fast.
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Old 17-02-2013, 18:30
Rob199
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Hello, I'm new here, so I hope I get things right...

Going back to post by pk_bluenose on 14/2/2013...

I also have a Dion ST01 set top box [STB]. BBC Red Button Text stopped working on Thursday 14th Feb [could have been the Wednesday]. I can get into a menu but the STB exists back to the programme being viewed after a few seconds or if I try to access a 'news item'.
I re-scanned it a number of times and even did a factory reset but the problem persists.
One thing that I did notice, and may be relevant, is that the list of 'shortcut buttons' at the bottom of the screen is not displayed [pk_bluenose also mentioned this]. Maybe there is a problem displaying the full screen and the STB then 'crashes out' back into the TV programme?

I then tried an old TV-Onics STB that I have for back-up. BBC Red Button Text works fine on this. The only thing I do not like [that other people have mentioned] is that the picture of the oringinal TV programme is no longer displayed on the left-hand side - it's useful to have it in case you want to qucikly switch back to the program [I assumed that was why the '0' button was introduced a number years back]. It is strange that the TV programme is still displayed on the menus but not on the 'news items'.

So, I do not reckon that it is a reception problem, more likely a software or memory problem or other new incompatibility that affects some STBs.

One point that I would like to make is that people have spent a lot of money on new TV sets and STBs over the past few years for digital switch over. My Dion is less than 3 years old, it took me ages to find one that has a decent EPG [programme guide] when my original one failed after the digital switchover. So it would seem unfair that people would have to now spend more money to replace equipment that has failed due to a software change.

I understand that the main reasons for the change was to: [1] amend the hierarchy of the 'news items'; and [2] remove 'underlying' code used by Ceefax.
[1] The hierarchy has changed in the past without any problems and I would have thought that this was a 'data content' change rather than a 'software change'.
[2] Usually one might assume that 'data retrieval' [common to all platforms] and the 'displaying of data' [different for different platforms] were separate functions. So I can understand that one would need to change the 'data retrieval' side to remove 'Ceefax Code' but I do not see why the 'data display' side of things would need to change, especially the removal of the TV picture on the left-hand side. So may be the old code for 'data display' could just be reinstated.
[I used to be in the computer software industry for many years, which may explain why I'm looking at it from this point of view...but I may be total wrong in my assumptions].
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:57
Sue_Aitch
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A few tears ago it was the 2k/8k and Split NIT problem that did for a few boxes; thankfully others were rescued by the manufacturers issuing Over Air Downloads to stop their customers having to fork out again.

May I suggest that those whose boxes have stopped working with red button report their problems via http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints?
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Old 18-02-2013, 16:39
Sue_Aitch
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Changes a-go-go! The STBs are being looked at ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/...-23rd-February post 7
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Old 18-02-2013, 17:37
Sexbomb
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got the old bbci text back again with the sections not split up, scitech back as one, the ftse 100 showing hourly updates.
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Old 18-02-2013, 19:11
David_Ayling
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It's working now but it looks like the changes have been removed. Meaning you get tv screen with text. Jest like before the changes happened.
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