If they are going to keep 302 as a placeholder, I would have thought it would be better to leave it on ArqA rather than PSB1 so people don't have to keep retuning every time it's brought back to life.
BBC Red button changes
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Originally Posted by kjhskj75:
“If they are going to keep 302 as a placeholder, I would have thought it would be better to leave it on ArqA rather than PSB1 so people don't have to keep retuning every time it's brought back to life.”
“If they are going to keep 302 as a placeholder, I would have thought it would be better to leave it on ArqA rather than PSB1 so people don't have to keep retuning every time it's brought back to life.”
I suspect that it is the legals and costs getting in the way of that. They'd have to pay for even the small data overhead of leaving a placeholder, but I suspect more complex would be the legal situation with Ofcom. They (the BBC and the multiplex owner) have to apply to Ofcom for permission every time they want to put 302 onto a non-BBC mux - http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/tv-bro...a-multiplex-c/
Interesting that "303" has been relabeled "BBC RB 302" on its return to LCN 302, rather than just being labeled "302" as it was before the Winter Olympics.
With space filling up on the commercial multiplexes, there's sadly no guarantee that the BBC will be able to utilise spare capacity on Arq A or B for the big sporting events later this year. I am glad, though, that they have temporarily taken Arqiva capacity for the big sporting and music events. I personally was of the opinion that spare Arqiva capacity should have been used to carry at least three of the 2012 Olympic streams (which would have provided most Freeview viewers with 5 streams) - at the time there was enough spare capacity in post-DSO regions to do that.
With space filling up on the commercial multiplexes, there's sadly no guarantee that the BBC will be able to utilise spare capacity on Arq A or B for the big sporting events later this year. I am glad, though, that they have temporarily taken Arqiva capacity for the big sporting and music events. I personally was of the opinion that spare Arqiva capacity should have been used to carry at least three of the 2012 Olympic streams (which would have provided most Freeview viewers with 5 streams) - at the time there was enough spare capacity in post-DSO regions to do that.
Originally Posted by a516:
“Interesting that "303" has been relabeled "BBC RB 302" on its return to LCN 302, rather than just being labeled "302" as it was before the Winter Olympics.
With space filling up on the commercial multiplexes, there's sadly no guarantee that the BBC will be able to utilise spare capacity on Arq A or B for the big sporting events later this year. I am glad, though, that they have temporarily taken Arqiva capacity for the big sporting and music events. I personally was of the opinion that spare Arqiva capacity should have been used to carry at least three of the 2012 Olympic streams (which would have provided most Freeview viewers with 5 streams) - at the time there was enough spare capacity in post-DSO regions to do that.”
“Interesting that "303" has been relabeled "BBC RB 302" on its return to LCN 302, rather than just being labeled "302" as it was before the Winter Olympics.
With space filling up on the commercial multiplexes, there's sadly no guarantee that the BBC will be able to utilise spare capacity on Arq A or B for the big sporting events later this year. I am glad, though, that they have temporarily taken Arqiva capacity for the big sporting and music events. I personally was of the opinion that spare Arqiva capacity should have been used to carry at least three of the 2012 Olympic streams (which would have provided most Freeview viewers with 5 streams) - at the time there was enough spare capacity in post-DSO regions to do that.”
I assume that they'll be making the same arrangements as Sochi on Freeview (and indeed Freesat) for the Commonwealth Games later on this year.
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“I assume that they'll be making the same arrangements as Sochi on Freeview (and indeed Freesat) for the Commonwealth Games later on this year.”
“I assume that they'll be making the same arrangements as Sochi on Freeview (and indeed Freesat) for the Commonwealth Games later on this year.”
Not quite the same arrangements...
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“What do you know? please tell.”
“What do you know? please tell.”
Subject to BBC Trust approval, BBC Three's broadcast hours will be extended. Meaning that on Freeview, Parliament will have to go off air and that there will be capacity on BBC Three's normal slot for BBC RB 302, as was the case during London 2012.
Unless we see any surprise changes to the BBC-A/PSB1 multiplex set-up, that we don't know yet.
Originally Posted by a516:
“Subject to BBC Trust approval, BBC Three's broadcast hours will be extended. Meaning that on Freeview, Parliament will have to go off air and that there will be capacity on BBC Three's normal slot for BBC RB 302, as was the case during London 2012.
Unless we see any surprise changes to the BBC-A/PSB1 multiplex set-up, that we don't know yet.”
“Subject to BBC Trust approval, BBC Three's broadcast hours will be extended. Meaning that on Freeview, Parliament will have to go off air and that there will be capacity on BBC Three's normal slot for BBC RB 302, as was the case during London 2012.
Unless we see any surprise changes to the BBC-A/PSB1 multiplex set-up, that we don't know yet.”
Surely that's going to be a lot more complicated now we have the HD channels. What will they do with CBBC?
Originally Posted by a516:
“Subject to BBC Trust approval, BBC Three's broadcast hours will be extended. Meaning that on Freeview, Parliament will have to go off air and that there will be capacity on BBC Three's normal slot for BBC RB 302, as was the case during London 2012.
Unless we see any surprise changes to the BBC-A/PSB1 multiplex set-up, that we don't know yet.”
“Subject to BBC Trust approval, BBC Three's broadcast hours will be extended. Meaning that on Freeview, Parliament will have to go off air and that there will be capacity on BBC Three's normal slot for BBC RB 302, as was the case during London 2012.
Unless we see any surprise changes to the BBC-A/PSB1 multiplex set-up, that we don't know yet.”
That wont work as BBC Three's playout is HD only and BBC Parliament is SD only so they are now incompatible.
It would work out better to just convert BBC Parliament into BBC RB 2 and put that on 302 instead of the place holder.
Then keep BBC Three and CBBC in SD and HD as is now!
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“That wont work as BBC Three's playout is HD only and BBC Parliament is SD only so they are now incompatible.
It would work out better to just convert BBC Parliament into BBC RB 2 and put that on 302 instead of the place holder.
Then keep BBC Three and CBBC in SD and HD as is now!”
“That wont work as BBC Three's playout is HD only and BBC Parliament is SD only so they are now incompatible.
It would work out better to just convert BBC Parliament into BBC RB 2 and put that on 302 instead of the place holder.
Then keep BBC Three and CBBC in SD and HD as is now!”
The BBC is planning to offer extended coverage throughout the day on BBC Three with Dougie Vipond, Lee McKenzie, Manish Bhasin and Dan Walker on presenting duties.
This has been planned well in advance, and was announced at the time of the HD channels being prepared for launch. If there is a playout issue as you describe, don't you think that the BBC and Red Bee would have steps in place to overcome this problem? Remember, the BBC / Red Bee do have the facility to playout temporary SD Red Button streams as and when required, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Subject to approval by the BBC Trust, there are a number of options for Freeview:
1.) Withdraw CBBC HD for 11 days, directing viewers to the SD version.
2.) Retain BBC Three HD as an evening only service on Freeview only. Direct viewers to BBC Three SD during the day.
3.) Temporarily move CBBC HD to COM7 or 8 (subject to whatever capacity is available at the time), in a similiar vein to CBBC's temporary move to Mux B in pre-switchover regions during London 2012.
Originally Posted by a516:
“The BBC is planning to offer extended coverage throughout the day on BBC Three with Dougie Vipond, Lee McKenzie, Manish Bhasin and Dan Walker on presenting duties.
This has been planned well in advance, and was announced at the time of the HD channels being prepared for launch. If there is a playout issue as you describe, don't you think that the BBC and Red Bee would have steps in place to overcome this problem? Remember, the BBC / Red Bee do have the facility to playout temporary SD Red Button streams as and when required, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Subject to approval by the BBC Trust, there are a number of options for Freeview:
1.) Withdraw CBBC HD for 11 days, directing viewers to the SD version.
2.) Retain BBC Three HD as an evening only service on Freeview only. Direct viewers to BBC Three SD during the day.
3.) Temporarily move CBBC HD to COM7 or 8 (subject to whatever capacity is available at the time), in a similiar vein to CBBC's temporary move to Mux B in pre-switchover regions during London 2012.”
“The BBC is planning to offer extended coverage throughout the day on BBC Three with Dougie Vipond, Lee McKenzie, Manish Bhasin and Dan Walker on presenting duties.
This has been planned well in advance, and was announced at the time of the HD channels being prepared for launch. If there is a playout issue as you describe, don't you think that the BBC and Red Bee would have steps in place to overcome this problem? Remember, the BBC / Red Bee do have the facility to playout temporary SD Red Button streams as and when required, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Subject to approval by the BBC Trust, there are a number of options for Freeview:
1.) Withdraw CBBC HD for 11 days, directing viewers to the SD version.
2.) Retain BBC Three HD as an evening only service on Freeview only. Direct viewers to BBC Three SD during the day.
3.) Temporarily move CBBC HD to COM7 or 8 (subject to whatever capacity is available at the time), in a similiar vein to CBBC's temporary move to Mux B in pre-switchover regions during London 2012.”
Ah I see the best option (although the most expensive option) is option 3 as that will allow BBC 3 to be extended in SD and HD using the BBC's existing capacity and will allow CBBC HD to be available too even though its limited.
It would also mean that the BBC could in theory have an evening HD red button service that is duplicated in SD in the down time of CBBC in SD and HD.
In theory if the radio was off DTT for the duration of sporting events (controversial I know), it would mean a full BBC RB 2 too!
This would mean we could have:
MUX BBC A:
BBC 1 SD
BBC 2 SD
BBC 3 SD (full time)
BBC 4 SD/CBeebies SD
BBC News
BBC RB 1
BBC RB 2 (or radio) (BBC Alba in Scotland) (in fact Radio could go mono for some like in Scotland the BBC RB 2 and BBC Alba (in Scotland) would work)
CBBC SD/BBC RB 3
MUX BBC B:
BBC 1 HD
BBC 2 HD
ITV HD
Channel 4 HD
BBC 3 HD (full time
MUX Com 7:
BBC News HD
BBC 4 HD/CBeebies HD
CBBC HD/BBC RB (3) HD
Al-Jazeera English HD
Al-Jazeera Arabic SD
MUX Com 8:
BBC RB 1 HD (if the BBC care to do this)
This combination would work well and if there is still space on the new Com 7 and 8 MUXs then extra SD RB streams could be utilised, but I suppose its all down to how huch the BBC will spend out to make things available!
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“That wont work as BBC Three's playout is HD only and BBC Parliament is SD only so they are now incompatible.”
“That wont work as BBC Three's playout is HD only and BBC Parliament is SD only so they are now incompatible.”
Remember that their playout provider is Red Bee, which was formerly BBC Broadcast Limited. It has extensive playout facilities and it wouldn't be a problem making this happen.
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“In theory if the radio was off DTT for the duration of sporting events (controversial I know), it would mean a full BBC RB 2 too!”
“In theory if the radio was off DTT for the duration of sporting events (controversial I know), it would mean a full BBC RB 2 too!”
I doubt that the BBC Trust would agree to removing permanent channels to accommodate a temporary service. Replacing BBC Parliament largely during Parliament's summer recess doesn't cause any major problems so is more easily justified.
Originally Posted by epsilon:
“Remember that their playout provider is Red Bee, which was formerly BBC Broadcast Limited. It has extensive playout facilities and it wouldn't be a problem making this happen.”
“Remember that their playout provider is Red Bee, which was formerly BBC Broadcast Limited. It has extensive playout facilities and it wouldn't be a problem making this happen.”
What is more significant is that BBC parliament is nothing to do with red bee....
And that there is No SD playout of any BBC uk channel by red bee .
Originally Posted by technologist:
“What is more significant is that BBC parliament is nothing to do with red bee....”
“What is more significant is that BBC parliament is nothing to do with red bee....”
Not really relevant considering the fact that BBC Parliament would be taken off-air. It's more a case of using BBC Parliament's DTT capacity than its playout.
Originally Posted by epsilon:
“I doubt that the BBC Trust would agree to removing permanent channels to accommodate a temporary service. Replacing BBC Parliament largely during Parliament's summer recess doesn't cause any major problems so is more easily justified.”
“I doubt that the BBC Trust would agree to removing permanent channels to accommodate a temporary service. Replacing BBC Parliament largely during Parliament's summer recess doesn't cause any major problems so is more easily justified.”
Well as I also mentioned if they can make some channels mono for BBC Alba in Scotland then they could in theory keep everything that is the two red button channels (except in Scotland where it would be half red button 2 and then BBC Alba), BBC 1, 2, 4, News, CBBC, CBeebies and extend 24 h BBC 3 with CBBC capacity used for RB 3 in the evenings! Then also keep the radio channels in mono, like they do in Scotland, as a temporary measure.
Originally Posted by technologist:
“What is more significant is that BBC parliament is nothing to do with red bee....
And that there is No SD playout of any BBC uk channel by red bee .”
“What is more significant is that BBC parliament is nothing to do with red bee....
And that there is No SD playout of any BBC uk channel by red bee .”
OK that is interesting, do you think the BBC would bring BBC Parliament to Redbee? I imagine it would then be HD if so? Also what about the red button playout?
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“Well as I also mentioned if they can make some channels mono for BBC Alba in Scotland then they could in theory keep everything that is the two red button channels (except in Scotland where it would be half red button 2 and then BBC Alba), BBC 1, 2, 4, News, CBBC, CBeebies and extend 24 h BBC 3 with CBBC capacity used for RB 3 in the evenings! Then also keep the radio channels in mono, like they do in Scotland, as a temporary measure.”
“Well as I also mentioned if they can make some channels mono for BBC Alba in Scotland then they could in theory keep everything that is the two red button channels (except in Scotland where it would be half red button 2 and then BBC Alba), BBC 1, 2, 4, News, CBBC, CBeebies and extend 24 h BBC 3 with CBBC capacity used for RB 3 in the evenings! Then also keep the radio channels in mono, like they do in Scotland, as a temporary measure.”
The difference is that BBC Alba is a permanent service with a remit to produce minority language services in areas where the minority language is the first language of a sizeable proportion of the population. It would be very difficult to justify a similar arrangement merely to provide temporary extra cover of short term events.
In any case it would be unworkable, the temporary red button services are UK wide, not UK wide except Scotland. The radio capacity has already been reallocated in Scotland so wouldn't be available for the UK wide service.
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“OK that is interesting, do you think the BBC would bring BBC Parliament to Redbee? I imagine it would then be HD if so? Also what about the red button playout?”
“OK that is interesting, do you think the BBC would bring BBC Parliament to Redbee? I imagine it would then be HD if so? Also what about the red button playout?”
Oh dear...
I presume all programming on S4C & BBC ALBA are now in HD?
What chances are there of these channels coming to Freeview HD in Wales & Scotland?
1. BBC One HD
2. BBC Two HD
3. ITV HD
4. Channel 4 HD / S4C HD
5. Leave blank for Channel 5 HD (in future)
6. Local TV
7. Channel 4 HD / S4C HD
8. BBC ALBA HD
9. CBeebies HD / BBC Three HD
10. CBBC HD / BBC Four HD
What chances are there of these channels coming to Freeview HD in Wales & Scotland?
1. BBC One HD
2. BBC Two HD
3. ITV HD
4. Channel 4 HD / S4C HD
5. Leave blank for Channel 5 HD (in future)
6. Local TV
7. Channel 4 HD / S4C HD
8. BBC ALBA HD
9. CBeebies HD / BBC Three HD
10. CBBC HD / BBC Four HD
Originally Posted by Dansky+HD:
“I presume all programming on S4C & BBC ALBA are now in HD?
What chances are there of these channels coming to Freeview HD in Wales & Scotland?”
“I presume all programming on S4C & BBC ALBA are now in HD?
What chances are there of these channels coming to Freeview HD in Wales & Scotland?”
S4C Clirlun, the HD version, has already been tried and was closed to cut costs because of the cuts to S4C's public funding. The funding isn't likely to increase anytime soon, so any further simulcasting is unlikely. BBC Alba is also unlikely to start a HD service in the near future, perhaps it would be better to extend their hours and become a full-time service before considering this.
Similarly, capacity on DTT is limited and we are unlikely to see minority language services extended beyond their primary service areas. If you want access to these channels outside their primary service area, they are available to the whole country on satellite and cable.
Originally Posted by epsilon:
“S4C Clirlun, the HD version, has already been tried and was closed to cut costs because of the cuts to S4C's public funding. The funding isn't likely to increase anytime soon, so any further simulcasting is unlikely. BBC Alba is also unlikely to start a HD service in the near future, perhaps it would be better to extend their hours and become a full-time service before considering this.”
“S4C Clirlun, the HD version, has already been tried and was closed to cut costs because of the cuts to S4C's public funding. The funding isn't likely to increase anytime soon, so any further simulcasting is unlikely. BBC Alba is also unlikely to start a HD service in the near future, perhaps it would be better to extend their hours and become a full-time service before considering this.”
S4C - possibly the only example of a channel that has reverted from HD to SD only.
Clirlun was a huge waste of money that contributed to the collapse of its previous funding model and the departure of its chief executive - and just because they wanted to 'keep up with the Jones' (see what I did there?!).....
Originally Posted by epsilon:
“Remember that their playout provider is Red Bee, which was formerly BBC Broadcast Limited. It has extensive playout facilities and it wouldn't be a problem making this happen.”
“Remember that their playout provider is Red Bee, which was formerly BBC Broadcast Limited. It has extensive playout facilities and it wouldn't be a problem making this happen.”
Not a problem per se but something that would cost in order to set up and manage. And short-term requirements are likely to be fairly costly day for day compared to a longer-term requirement (as in any walk of life, business or otherwise)
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