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Old 22-03-2013, 12:37
Sue_Aitch
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Old 22-03-2013, 14:24
mossy2103
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I don't think so:

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These were all split screen before the changes that began in February, so have reverted to that formatting now.

As I say, Mossy, ask the team directly, as I could be wrong in my assumptions given theTwitter conversations quoted above.
Query sent.
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Old 22-03-2013, 16:47
mossy2103
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Just got a reply (they are quick!)

Hi, thanks for your email.

As you are aware we have recently performed some technical work behind the scenes to remove the final parts of the publishing processes still powered by the recently discontinued Ceefax service. We've tried to keep any changes to the public service to a minimum, but there have been some alterations to the content provided.

One of these is the half-screen/full-screen template on digital text. We have had to employ the full-screen template in parts of the service that were previously half-screen while we released our changes.

We will be returning to the half-screen template for most of the content once all our changes have been rolled out and are stable.

Best wishes,

Red Button Technical
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Old 23-03-2013, 13:29
Digifriendly
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Real confusion yesterday over rugby on red button. BBC red button schedule on their website said it was Ospreys vs Dragons, Freeview EPG said Ospreys vs Ulster while BBCNI announced Edinburgh vs Ulster. Eventually it was confirmed that Edinburgh vs Ulster was on. This meant those who watched Ospreys vs Dragons had to go online to get alternative commentary for this game. This is one of the failings of BBC now having only one red button stream. Both matches could have been accomodated otherwise.
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Old 23-03-2013, 14:01
Sue_Aitch
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Report your concerns to BBC Sport.

While you're doing so, could you ask them to look at the Blue Button on the BBC Red Button Sport Pages: it needs updating asap!
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Old 23-03-2013, 23:21
wjong
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Really, do the U.S. use this system?

A recent survey revealed that a very large proportion of the UK population over the age of 45 still use imperial and simply don't understand metric measurements. Now as far as I can see excluding such a large group of the UK population smacks of ageism. Perhaps you don't believe in diversity, is that what it is?
Yes the US uses the metric system. Its been legal and official in the US since the Metric Act of 1866. It is however a secondary system of measurement in the US.

Most people have adapted to the mixed measurement mess, that is around us. I'm an older person and learnt Imperial measures when a child, but along with most older people we have adapted and understand metric. I now prefer to use metric. Its only when you start to use it you realise how much simpiler it is.
I don't put much faith in surveys or polls. The questions are often biased. However from my experience, around older people I would agree, that older people prefer to use Imperial measures, but its a fallacy, to suggest that they don't also understand metric measures.
Also you have to realise that the metrication process has been ongoing for 35 to 40 years and older people were a lot younger when it started. Most older people adapt just like younger people do.
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Old 24-03-2013, 07:48
Sue_Aitch
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For sevearl years now, distances on road signs in the Republic of Ireland have been in km whilst in the UK distances remain in miles and the speedo of every car I've driven has shown both the km/h and miles/h systems.

Back to the topic. How do you like the About the News pages now?
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Old 24-03-2013, 09:00
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Yes the US uses the metric system. Its been legal and official in the US since the Metric Act of 1866. It is however a secondary system of measurement in the US.

Most people have adapted to the mixed measurement mess, that is around us. I'm an older person and learnt Imperial measures when a child, but along with most older people we have adapted and understand metric. I now prefer to use metric. Its only when you start to use it you realise how much simpiler it is.
I don't put much faith in surveys or polls. The questions are often biased. However from my experience, around older people I would agree, that older people prefer to use Imperial measures, but its a fallacy, to suggest that they don't also understand metric measures.
Also you have to realise that the metrication process has been ongoing for 35 to 40 years and older people were a lot younger when it started. Most older people adapt just like younger people do.
Also first discussed in the UK parliament in the 19th Century. The ball really got rolling (If I remember properly) 44 years ago, following a parliamentary decision 50 years ago. I can't see how anyone could not have grasped the basics by now.

As for surveys, I can remember a discussion on here a couple of years ago, in GD, about a Sunday Express article that something like 40% of people didn't understand the metric system. When you looked into it, the survey also revealed that 80% of people didn't understand the imperial system. I think the consensus was that the majority of people use whatever is most appropriate for them, mixing and matching as necessary.

So yesterday, it was -2 and icy, I went to buy a pint of milk. Even though it's only 100m away I could only manage a snail's pace. (Four different measurement systems in one paragraph)
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Old 24-03-2013, 09:04
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I'm off to Palm Sunday worship: I'll ask what quantities the Palm Crosses were bundled in!
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Old 24-03-2013, 23:39
Winston_1
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Not read this thread thoroughly, so apologies if I missed it but, went to check Heathrow flight arrivals today only to get a message that this service is no longer available and referring me to Heathrow website or a rip off premium rate phone number. Same for Stansted, though Gatwick information is still available. What on earth is going on?
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:46
technologist
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Many of the airports which in time gone by provided their arrival feeds free of charge now will not provide them
- wanting you to use their website instead...
this is what may be happening here.......

It has been an issue for the BBC Ceefax/ Red button Team for many years now.... including having to pay towards the feeds..
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:54
Sue_Aitch
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The details of the changes to Flight Arrivals can be found on page 998: please see post #76 for the numbers that do "What it says on the tin!"
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Old 25-03-2013, 09:44
kasg
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A recent survey revealed that a very large proportion of the UK population over the age of 45 still use imperial and simply don't understand metric measurements.
Sorry to continue this O/T stuff but I've only just seen it. I am 55 and school (well, certainly secondary school) was exclusively metric. I can handle either measurement system but obviously prefer some over others, e.g. weights in stones and pounds rather than kilograms, but I much prefer Celsius (not strictly a metric measurement but that's beside the point) to Fahrenheit and always convert F to C in my head.
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Old 25-03-2013, 09:47
kasg
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Not read this thread thoroughly, so apologies if I missed it but, went to check Heathrow flight arrivals today only to get a message that this service is no longer available and referring me to Heathrow website or a rip off premium rate phone number. Same for Stansted, though Gatwick information is still available. What on earth is going on?
Presumably a BAA thing, Gatwick is no longer owned by BAA.
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Old 26-03-2013, 16:46
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Really, do the U.S. use this system?
The US do not use imperial measurements. They use 'English customary' units. The inch (and therefore mile) and pound have the same definitions in the US and Imperial systems: ironically they are defined in law as 25.4 millimetres and 454 grams respectively. However, it is usual in the US to use decimals to represent quantities smaller than an inch, rather than fractions, and they don't use stones for weight. Measures of volume are quite different, an Imperial gallon is 20% larger than a US gallon, and a US pint is 16 (fluid) ounces rather than the Imperial 20. Fluid ounces are even slightly different sizes!

If programme makers are using imperial units because they think it will make the programme more saleable in the US, they are mistaken: US viewers will get a subtly wrong impression.

It's a common belief in the US that European cars are more efficient than their own - that may come up in watching Top Gear, for example. Not always true. Measurement problems occur in non-conversion of units, and in the fact that the US fuel economy test is more stringent, and also that their 'regular' fuel grade has a lower octane rating (that's another thing that's measured differently, but when measured on the same system theirs has a lower rating).
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Old 26-03-2013, 19:12
kasg
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ironically they are defined in law as 25.4 millimetres and 454 grams respectively.
You're right about the inch but I've never seen the pound defined that way, it's 453.59237 grams, quite a way from 454.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_(mass)
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Old 26-03-2013, 23:21
Faust
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Sorry to continue this O/T stuff but I've only just seen it. I am 55 and school (well, certainly secondary school) was exclusively metric. I can handle either measurement system but obviously prefer some over others, e.g. weights in stones and pounds rather than kilograms, but I much prefer Celsius (not strictly a metric measurement but that's beside the point) to Fahrenheit and always convert F to C in my head.
I am slightly older than you, we were imperial at our school and I stayed on an extra year. I can follow most of it myself but confess the measurement side leaves me cold so I simply refuse to change over. However, that isn't really the issue is it. What matters is that a lot of people are marginalised when they can't understand information. To take it one step further, to my certain knowledge we are still using 'miles' as a measurement of distance in the UK? Well I have heard on quite a few occasions now presenters on the BBC referring to distance in kilometres, what on earth is that all about? Someone at the beeb definitely needs a good talking to.
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Old 27-03-2013, 01:08
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To take it one step further, to my certain knowledge we are still using 'miles' as a measurement of distance in the UK?
Erm, no? Only for road usage.
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Old 27-03-2013, 06:45
Sue_Aitch
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What matters is that a lot of people are marginalised when they can't understand information.
http://conversation.which.co.uk/cons...omment-page-1/

I started school in 1969 and was taught in metric.
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Old 27-03-2013, 07:10
prking
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I am slightly older than you, we were imperial at our school and I stayed on an extra year. I can follow most of it myself but confess the measurement side leaves me cold so I simply refuse to change over. However, that isn't really the issue is it. What matters is that a lot of people are marginalised when they can't understand information. To take it one step further, to my certain knowledge we are still using 'miles' as a measurement of distance in the UK? Well I have heard on quite a few occasions now presenters on the BBC referring to distance in kilometres, what on earth is that all about? Someone at the beeb definitely needs a good talking to.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there - you refuse to try to 'change' That's your right, but you shouldn't think that everyone else feels the same.
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Old 27-03-2013, 07:34
Sue_Aitch
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So back to the OT, please, if we may, as per

http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questi...button_streams
http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questi...hanges_feb2013

I hope Newsround will be back on page 571 soon.
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Old 27-03-2013, 22:50
Faust
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I was working by then?
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Old 27-03-2013, 22:59
Faust
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I think you've hit the nail on the head there - you refuse to try to 'change' That's your right, but you shouldn't think that everyone else feels the same.
Not so, I said it leaves me cold. I don't think everyone feels the same either. I said a great many of the older generation are marginalised by such organisations as the BBC refusing or not referring to measurements of distance in imperial as well as metric. If this was an ethnic minority then there would be hell up but as it's just an older section of our society the attitude from the BBC and many of you posters is - tough. I find that stance to be somewhat puzzling not to mention ageist.
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Old 27-03-2013, 23:06
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Erm, no? Only for road usage.
So what you are saying is that if as an example I was driving from Birmingham to Manchester it is quite correct for the road signs to inform me the distance is 40 miles. However, if I was telling someone the distance from Birmingham to Manchester then I would inform said person that it was 64.37 kilometres?
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Old 27-03-2013, 23:33
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So what you are saying is that if as an example I was driving from Birmingham to Manchester it is quite correct for the road signs to inform me the distance is 40 miles. However, if I was telling someone the distance from Birmingham to Manchester then I would inform said person that it was 64.37 kilometres?
Why would you give the kilometres value to two (three?) more significant figures than your miles value? Oh yeah, to be flippant.

It's weird that some people still cling to imperial when the population got used to decimalisation pretty damned quickly.
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