Look, said character "died", but their mind was saved. Their body however, would still exist though burnt to a crisp. There needs to be some place that the body is buried

Also much as I like River and I do, the show has to move away from her as well to a certain degree.

Clara's storyline in particular should have no significant connection to River other than them being good friends and nothing more.

Exactly...

Sarah Anne Evans is playing "alien" in 7b...

http://www.castingcallpro.com/uk/credit.php?uid=1464541

I'm hoping, well it's more of a headcannon, that the doctor goes back to the library just after 10 uploads her and uploads a copy of himself, Rory and Amy to the system. I guess it's really cheesy but I find the idea of River living forever without her Doctor or her parents unbearable. I think most people will probably think it's a terrible idea.

That all sounds fine. What I don't want is any kind of 'Yes but that happened in that timeline and we can change this and make it not happen and instead this will happen because it can and it doesn't matter that it completely devalues what went before'. Returning to it would be nice but changing it would be truly horrible. Like the original Bad Wolf Bay scene being totally wrecked by the return. I don't want that. I want it to be a fixed point that remains forever more. The end of that episode is beautiful and for me is where the Moffat era began. Don't f it up!

Of course this is all speculation and so I am only giving my opinion on the potential for that to happen. No reason why it will. The Library must happen exactly as it did. No ret-con. No reboot. No changes.

I don't see the Library as River's final end, all you'd need was the tessalector to download her conscience into its databanks and assume her form and BAM, River's back and out of the Library.

OR one of those flesh clones.

OR an empty cyber-shell

OR an empty Dalek...

OR....Oswin. Maybe she already is Oswin, I dunno.

Hence the gravestone. Perhaps the culmination of the finale is River going off to the library to meet her destiny. It would be poignant and sweet. If Steven M. were to resurrect her somehow, then it would be a hell of a bad mistake up there with Colin Baker's costume.

At the moment I'm thinking the gravestone is most likely to mark where River's body is after the Library. Just a place to go and visit, like many people visit relatives and loved ones who have passed on. It could be the final scene of one of the upcoming episodes, just the doctor standing over the grave, talking about how much he'll miss River. With the viewers just having seen him give her a sonic screwdriver and wish her well on her trip to a certain library.

The very next scene, however, could be him going to visit her somewhere before all these events. and we'll see them both look happy together ice skating on the river Thames in the early 1900s, as Stevie Wonder sings. That lets us know that even though we'll probably never see her on screen again, the Doctor still has lots of times to spend with her. Times that have already happened, but have yet to happen for the Doctor.

And a small tear runs down my face even as I'm smiling and thinking that their adventures together are kind-of never ending

I don't know how the last episode or moments will be. Expect I will need a tissue. Her body didn't survive the immolation. No body left to bury no ashes to scatter nothing. After her "death" in FOTD he/10 was just staring sadly at the empty chair. After he couldn't save her family is he really going to give up without a fight ?. If he can't save her he needs to let her go. Tell her he loves her and kiss her goodbye.

No, River's fate needs to be the Library.

The character's brilliant but the show has to be able to move on from her like it does with every companion.

Changing her fate undermines and cheapens her whole storyline.

I would have to agree that River's end is at the library...it's what we were always heading for in a timey-wimey sort of way.

So, from River's linear chronology, it all comes to end at the library. But from the viewers chronology, what is the big send off that we're going to get - there surely has to be a moment of poignancy or an "iconic moment" sort of feel. The character has been with us for four consecutive series now.

Presumably either the Series 7 finale or the 50th Anniversary will mark River's final appearance. I always had presumed the latter, given "the question" and River's knowledge of just who The Doctor is...it always felt like it was heading for that. Either way, and I care not for little bonus content on DVD's, I really want to see The Doctor and River at The Singing Towers...it deserves to be visualised and now seems the time to do it.

The Doctor- "River, do I need to say those words?"
River- "Just hold me, no words needed but..."
The Doctor- "Yes, River"
River-"Promise me Doctor, always hellos never goodbyes"
The Doctor kisses River as she then walks off towards the explorers waiting by the ship.
Man in a suit- "Who was that?"
River- "I'll tell you one day but there is something I have to do first"
Man in a suit- "What do you have to do?"
River looks in her book.

To be honest, when River saved the 10th Doctor she must have known that if he died at the Library she would never be conceived and so never exist.

As much as she saved him, she also ensured her own birth.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23DoctorWho&src=hash

"Exciting News about the return of Doctor Who at Midnight"

I've just realised. Doctor Who starts again this month in about 4 weeks time. The Bells Of Saint John. I wonder who Saint John is...

"Oranges and Lemons" is an English nursery rhyme and singing game which refers to the bells of several churches, all within or close to the City of London. It is listed in the Roud Folk Song Index as #13190.


...Pokers and tongs,
Say the bells of St. John's.'...

...Here comes a candle to light you to bed,
Here comes a chopper to chop off your head.

Chop chop chop chop
The last man's dead!

In Doctor Who Series 6 Episode 11 The God Complex, Joe (the first captive "guest" to be sacrificed) refers to the line "Here comes a candle to light you to bed, Here comes a chopper to chop off your head. Chop chop chop chop"

From the BBC

Perhaps the most sinister lyric is “pokers and tongs” at St John’s Chapel in the Tower of London. This may well be a reference to the hideous forms of torture that took place in that building.

(Somewhere on the internet Sophie Oohies head goes bang )

A quick question from a long time lurker.

Has it been revealed which of rhe new episode the Sontarens will be gracing?

Strax will be in The Crimson Horror and the last episode -- the 6th and 8th episode of the 2013 run/ 7B - at the very least.

Welcome to the forum btw

I love we're getting Cybermen, Ice Warriors and Sontarans in this run! We're being spoilt! That's nearly half the episodes! Along with Daleks and Weeping Angels last year that makes 5 returning aliens (plus a Silurian cameo in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship) this series. And who knows, maybe there's more?

Series 6 we had the Cybermen and a single Sontaran (who wasnt a proper Sontaran)

Series 5 we had Daleks, Weeping Angels and Silurians and lots of cameos in episode 12

Series 4 we had Ood, Sontarans, and Daleks

Series 3 we had Daleks, the Master and Macra

Series 2 we had Cybermen and the Daleks

Series 1 we had Daleks

So this is the best run for returning monsters since the shows come back!

Edit: Oh, is it only Strax? Well, still the best run for returning monsters without a full Sontaran return

Cheers, been meaning to for a while.
I'm aware it won't just be Strax making a comeback. There's at least 3 others helmeted, and possibly more. But I'm not sure how that ties in with what's already known.

There aren't any rumours I know of that suggest multiple Sontarans, though I'd like to see them make a comeback. Where can I find the 3 others?

Surprisingly little is known about some of the episodes this time round, which must surely be a first! The title of the last episode isn't known, nor are any plot details except the victorian trio reappearing, so if we get multiple Sontarans, maybe Strax rejoins his lot in the finale, having served his punishment? It's not impossible, and would be great to see, even if it was a brief moment.

You're forgetting the brief appearance of a disguised Zygon in The Power of 3

LOOOVE the Bells Of St Johns poster! Looks so epic in so many ways...cannot wait to see this "Urban Thriller" ah wow!