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Oscar Pistorius Bail Hearing Begins


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Old 19-02-2013, 08:57
occy
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http://news.sky.com/story/1053938/os...motive-to-kill

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Why would a burglar lock themselves in the bathroom, asks prosecuter. Says indicates that alleged murder was pre-planned?
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Old 19-02-2013, 08:59
treme
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Why would a burglar lock themselves in the bathroom, asks prosecuter
To pinch a loaf.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:01
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The prosecution is going for premeditated murder as the charge. He still seems to be insisting he thought it was a burglar and that he shot her by accident. But you make a good point about burglars, they really don't tend to lock themselves in bathrooms. And if you can't see through the door, and the door is locked, surely you are in no immediate danger and could, you know, take some simple steps to ensure that it IS a stranger in your home and not your girlfriend.

I will be interested to see how the case progresses. But "accidental" seems like a stretch to me at the moment given the information we have in the public forum.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:02
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Could be that he imagined that the burglar was climbing in through the bathroom window, and didn't know it was locked just closed?
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:03
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Could be that he imagined that the burglar was climbing in through the bathroom window, and didn't know it was locked just closed?
Possible. My point is, would you REALLY shoot through a closed (or locked) door without being fairly sure who was behind it? If he had the gun and was pointing it at the door, surely saying something along the lines of "I have a gun pointed at you, identify yourself" would not take a huge stretch of brainpower.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:08
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Possible. My point is, would you REALLY shoot through a closed (or locked) door without being fairly sure who was behind it? If he had the gun and was pointing it at the door, surely saying something along the lines of "I have a gun pointed at you, identify yourself" would not take a huge stretch of brainpower.
Well yes exactly, seems a bit odd. But if it was premeditated, surely he could have thought of a more convincing way of doing it.

What is ok to talk about in threads about ongoing trials?
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:13
PinkPetunia
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Well if it was premeditated he planned it very badly . And if someone is behind a locked door then you have time to shout out who is there before blasting your gun .
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:13
primer
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Could be that he imagined that the burglar was climbing in through the bathroom window, and didn't know it was locked just closed?
what, and it never crossed his mind that it might be his girlfriend who had been in bed with him and wasn't anymore?

you'd have though he'd at least been a bit cautious
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:17
Lizzy11268
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Well yes exactly, seems a bit odd. But if it was premeditated, surely he could have thought of a more convincing way of doing it.

What is ok to talk about in threads about ongoing trials?
No idea. I guess stuff thats already in the public domain is ok to discuss. And its not a UK trial. However other threads on the subject have been deleted so possibly this one will too.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:17
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what, and it never crossed his mind that it might be his girlfriend who had been in bed with him and wasn't anymore?

you'd have though he'd at least been a bit cautious
I didn't say I believed it! Just how it could be 'explained'.

Who locks the door when they go for a pee in the night anyway.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:19
primer
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I didn't say I believed it! Just how it could be 'explained'.
i understand

it seems likely that is what he will offer as a defence, but its going to look sketchy by any standards. i read in the telegraph there hadn't been a burglary in that complx for 5 years.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:25
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It just seems such a bizarre 'reason'. Surely the bathroom was locked from the inside? Which would rule out the burglar coming in through the window and not realising the door was locked theory.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:27
The Terminator
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I think some people might take a bit more from the word "premeditated" than they ought to. It doesn't necessarily mean a plan laid out well in advance.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:27
primer
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Incidentally, i don't think the premeditation refers to having planned it for weeks, or even days... premeditation can be minutes, and putting on your blades, getting your gun, shooting through the door as part of a defence you offer as soon as you call your mates (he never called emergency services, the neighbours did that) counts as premeditation.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:34
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Well yes exactly, seems a bit odd. But if it was premeditated, surely he could have thought of a more convincing way of doing it.

What is ok to talk about in threads about ongoing trials?
Because there is no jury system there, there is noone who could be swayed by internet talk. Therefore we can say what we want.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:34
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There was an interesting point from the prosecution with regards to "premeditation." Even if he genuinley believed it was a burglar in the bathroom, he still shot with the intention to harm that person. In that sense, it was premeditated.
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Old 19-02-2013, 09:42
aggs
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I think some people might take a bit more from the word "premeditated" than they ought to. It doesn't necessarily mean a plan laid out well in advance.
No - I suppose in this instance they mean that they believe he knew who was behind the door when the shots were fired, but the shots were still fired anyway?
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:16
Lizzy11268
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I'm following @MG_Reporter on Twitter at the moment, tweeting live from the hearing. Quite interesting.
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:24
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Possible. My point is, would you REALLY shoot through a closed (or locked) door without being fairly sure who was behind it?
Playing devils advocate, that argument works both ways

If it was an armed burglar in the bathroom - do you think they would hesitate in shooting through a close door if they thought there was somebody on the other side (possibly armed) waiting for them.

You cant necessarily put a rational argument together for why somebody takes a certain course of action in an extreme situation. People often react spontaneously in such circumstances.

I'm sure the court will get to the bottom of what happened.
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:26
Sammi_Roberts
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Possible. My point is, would you REALLY shoot through a closed (or locked) door without being fairly sure who was behind it? If he had the gun and was pointing it at the door, surely saying something along the lines of "I have a gun pointed at you, identify yourself" would not take a huge stretch of brainpower.
I suppose it depends where you live. Over here I doubt we would. Gun crime isn't such a regular occurrence. In a country where there are lots of guns and lots of gun related crime and if you grew up knowing that, then you would handle any situation appropriately and certainly differently from the UK.

And the door being locked is just speculation.
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:28
Lamparilla
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Caller: “Hello. Police?”

Police: “Yes sir, how can we help?”

Caller: “Well I think there might be a burglar locked in my bathroom”

Police: “Right sir, the door is locked from the inside?”

Caller: “Yes, I was chasing them and managed to bash their skull with a cricket bat, and they ran into the bathroom”

Police: “Have they said anything?”

Caller: “Well, yes, they’re screaming that they’re actually my girlfriend”

Police: “Does it sound like your girlfriend?”

Caller: “Well actually it does a bit”

Police: "Did it look like your girlfriend when you bashed her with the cricket bat?"

Caller: "Well, yes, it did a bit"

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

Police: “What was that?”

To be continued
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:29
Lizzy11268
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I suppose it depends where you live. Over here I doubt we would. Gun crime isn't such a regular occurrence. In a country where there are lots of guns and lots of gun related crime and if you grew up knowing that, then you would handle any situation appropriately and certainly differently from the UK.

And the door being locked is just speculation.
Yes, it may or may not have been locked but it was definitely closed.

I take your point about where you are and the mindset. In the US as well I guess you might shoot first and ask questions later. Presumably all this will be gone into over the course of the proceedings.

Latest from court

Nair rules that #OscarPistorius should face premeditated murder charge

From Twitter.
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:34
kochspostulates
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I don't see that the putting his legs on bit has anything to do with it.


Surely he had to put his legs on otherwise he couldn't have got to the bathroom or run away from a burglar ?
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:39
Sammi_Roberts
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From the details we have, it's not hard for the prosecution to put together a case of premeditated murder. Remember the prosecution just have to present a reasonable story, not prove anything at this time. So previous arguments, man with gun, dead girlfriend, no apparent signs of break in = a case to answer. At this stage as far as the Judge is concerned, his guilt isn't in question, just that is there sufficient (even un-tested) evidence to fit the charge.
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Old 19-02-2013, 10:42
Auntie Climax
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I think he planned it, it went wrong, and he hadn't prepared for the eventual outcome, meaning his "story" doesn't make sense now.
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