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Oscar Pistorius Bail Hearing Begins


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Old 20-02-2013, 17:55
Deep Purple
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Because it's South Africa and violent crime is rampant, and he had no idea that the intruder wasn't also armed and was about to start shooting through the door too.
So how hard was it to stand away from the door, keeping it covered, whilst establishing the girlfriend was not in there.

Even in SA, the chances of a person in the bathroom in the middle of the night are much more likely to be an occupant, than a burglar.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:55
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So he hears a noise and without even bothering to check where the person is that actually shares that bathroom he goes in a blasts her to death .?

Ih and his motive ? Rage , domestic rage .
And without getting ANY response from his girlfriend after he claims to have told her/shouted to her to call the police, that there was an intruder in the toilet, just blindly shoots through the door? We are really being asked to swallow this crap that he didn't even think for a second that it could be her in there?
As I said, no-one is denying that what he did wasn't reckless and stupid. But that doesn't mean it was intentional murder.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:57
Ada Rabble
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So, rather than assuming his girlfriend had gone to the bathroom, he starts firing shots into there without establishing where she was?
He saw she was asleep when he went to get the fan, so assumed she was still there when he got his gun, strapped on his legs after hearing noises in the bathroom...
Nope, sounds ludicrous while I type it.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:57
oulandy
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Speculative I know, but I am thinking that possibly they hadn't gone to bed and to sleep for the night but were still awake and about in the bedroom, (relaxing, talking, watching TV or texting, going online etc.) That's why the bathroom window would be open (if indeed it was; we have only his word for it) and why she was wearing a vest and shorts. Also why her bladder would be empty at 3 a.m. as she would be more likely to go if she was still up, rather than asleep for the night. He is supposed to be ultra aware of security and if so, she also is bound to be aware of that and they would not go to sleep with the bathroom window open. Also if it is so hot at night, she would probably not be wearing shorts and a vest. I know I wouldn't. Clothing feels very oppressive in bed if it's hot at night. I think it likely she'd be wearing nothing or almost nothing under just a sheet in those conditions.

This possible scenario would fit with the witness who is said to have heard arguing and shots, with the lights on. Anyway, no doubt more information will emerge...
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:58
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As I said, no-one is denying that what he did wasn't reckless and stupid. But that doesn't mean it was intentional murder.
Shooting blindly through a door into an enclosed space where he knows someone is, is murder.

Especially when he has a girlfriend there who shares the bathroom.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:58
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BTW, how has this thread got to 41 pages when the last one was shut down?
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:58
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He saw she was asleep when he went to get the fan, so assumed she was still there when he got his gun, strapped on his legs after hearing noises in the bathroom...
Nope, sounds ludicrous while I type it.
It sure does.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:59
Deep Purple
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BTW, how has this thread got to 41 pages when the last one was shut down?
Maybe someone realises that Sub Judice and the Contempt of Court Act does not apply to South African cases.
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:59
Ada Rabble
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Could her bladder have been empty, if she'd wet herself with fear
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Old 20-02-2013, 17:59
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She knew he'd be armed. Surely that's enough. One thing is for sure though - he isn't smart.
Why? If we accept the premise that he's a perfectly nice, normal guy who only shot her by accident, which is the whole point of that theory, WHY would she assume he'd shoot at her?

I think he needs a long prison sentence for what he did. But when you poke holes in your own story or refuse to acknowledge the story of the defence, you weaken your own argument.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:01
Deep Purple
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Could her bladder have been empty, if she'd wet herself with fear
It could, and hopefully the full forensic reports would establish that.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:01
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He's being charged with premeditated murder*, which is a Schedule 6 offence under SA law.
I know, that's why I said "premeditated".

No bail for Schedule 6 defendants except in very exceptional circumstances.
So why are they having a bail hearing at all? Could it be that those very exceptional circumstances are likely to be present in this case?
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:01
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So rather than keeping this maniac covered from the other side of a locked door, he goes elsewhere, allowing the burglar to get out of the bathroom.

He must have tried the door to know it was locked in the first place, so how would she get in if it was locked by a burglar?

His story is ridiculous.
It's worse than that though, isn't it?

He claims to have gone to the balcony, come back inside, decided there was an intruder in the bathroom, gone back to the bed to get the gun, not bothered to check whether she was in the bed, then, having not bothered to check she was in the bed he's decided to shout to alert her to the presence of the intruder, gone back to the bathroom and gone all pulp-fiction.

Even if we accept that story at face value, and ignore stuff like the ballistics indicating that the shots were fired by a regular height adult, at a downward trajectory, that's still unmitigatedly reckless behaviour in any context.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:02
Ada Rabble
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Surely while he's strapping on his legs getting his gun, he would have whispered to, woken up his bed partner and simply say 'did you hear that noise?"
I find it astonishing that people would consider he might not have
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:02
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A big row, with her locking herself in the bathroom, and him in a rage firing wildly through the door is much more feasable.
Yep, that's how I see it.

Even if he genuinely didn't know who was in the bathroom and feared that it was an intruder, I would call his actions so reckless as to amount to a complete disregard for human life - even if he was scared. The force used and how it was used was not reasonable.

I leave it to legal eagles to say if that would amount to murder or some other related crime in South Africa - but accidental death it was not!
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:04
Kapellmeister
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BTW, how has this thread got to 41 pages when the last one was shut down?
Luckily for us, DS perhaps realises that this isn't a UK case where sub judice comes into force. The SA newspapers are full of the same speculation as on this thread and the SA authorities can do little about it.

So far, apart from one or two exceptions, I think this thread has been pretty restrained and mature.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:04
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It's worse than that though, isn't it?

He claims to have gone to the balcony, come back inside, decided there was an intruder in the bathroom, gone back to the bed to get the gun, not bothered to check whether she was in the bed, then, having not bothered to check she was in the bed he's decided to shout to alert her to the presence of the intruder, gone back to the bathroom and gone all pulp-fiction.

Even if we accept that story at face value, and ignore stuff like the ballistics indicating that the shots were fired by a regular height adult, at a downward trajectory, that's still unmitigatedly reckless behaviour in any context.
I agree. The defence lawyer has concentrated on holes that dont matter, and people are falling for it.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:05
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Surely while he's strapping on his legs getting his gun, he would have whispered to, woken up his bed partner and simply say 'did you hear that noise?"
I find it astonishing that people would consider he might not have
He didn't put his prosthetic legs on before shooting. It was, according to Oscar, only afterwards.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:07
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Why? If we accept the premise that he's a perfectly nice, normal guy who only shot her by accident, which is the whole point of that theory, WHY would she assume he'd shoot at her?

I think he needs a long prison sentence for what he did. But when you poke holes in your own story or refuse to acknowledge the story of the defence, you weaken your own argument.
She didn't have to assume or accept anything and neither do I but in a situation where a person is screaming in terror and they are armed, I'm pretty sure I would want that person to now where I was.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:07
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He didn't put his prosthetic legs on before shooting. It was, according to Oscar, only afterwards.
According to ballistics the shot were fired from a height ?Are you simplyu ignoring that and believing a man who has shot a girl to death ?
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:08
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Could her bladder have been empty, if she'd wet herself with fear
TBH, I don't really think that's as big a deal as the defence are making out.

Can a person who's involved in an argument not go to the toilet?
If a person's used the loo in the last couple of hours, is their bladder not going to be relatively empty regardless of what they've been doing since?
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:09
Kapellmeister
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She didn't have to assume or accept anything and neither do I but in a situation where a person is screaming in terror and they are armed, I'm pretty sure I would want that person to now where I was.
Well, we don't know the timescale of when things took place. Maybe she's half asleep and in the toilet and suddenly, out of nowhere Oscar starts shouting and screaming and she's probably thinking 'WTF is going on??'. Maybe she thought Oscar was talking to someone else, someone who had got into the bedroom. She probably never thought for a second he was talking to her, and if he fired soon after shouting then there wasn't time for her to realise what was happening and to call out.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:09
oulandy
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One thing the court is to consider, as I understand it, is whether it is premeditated murder or simply, murder.
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:09
PinkPetunia
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Could her bladder have been empty, if she'd wet herself with fear
Or she may well have weed before the shooting . She could have been in the bathroom 10 minutes prior for all we know .Its only he who says she went to the bathroom while he was "elsewhere " We dont know if she ran back in in terror maybe
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Old 20-02-2013, 18:10
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He didn't put his prosthetic legs on before shooting. It was, according to Oscar, only afterwards.
Still, why did he not make a proper attempt to awaken the girlfriend when getting the gun from under the bed? That was the very point he should have done so, told her what he thought was happening and for her to quickly call the police. He claims to have shouted back towards the bed, but got no response and didn't think anything of it apparently.

Legs or no legs, the question here remains the same.
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