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Heather Frost aka 'Dole Queen' and family goes into hiding


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Old 09-03-2013, 23:29
mRebel
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Counter staff at the Royal Mail have been offered no pay rise but a lump sum tied to unspecified conditions, and have voted to strike in protest. Some will say there's a recession, they have to accept they've got to make sacrifices.
Perhaps they might if their bosses were applying that criteria to themselves, but,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...wo-thirds.html

The national postal operator has been forced to admit that it agreed a secret 62 per cent increase in bonuses for thousands of its managers last year.
Royal Mail’s chief executive Moya Greene received a £371,000 bonus, taking her pay to £1.1 million and making her one of Britain’s highest-paid officials.
A Department for Business spokesman defended the payments, saying they were “designed to incentivise managers to achieve the transformation of the business”.


We're all in this together.
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Old 09-03-2013, 23:46
jrio
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A continuation of the mantra that management can only be incentivised with higher wages and bonuses, whilst for the workers it's no increases and more punitive conditions.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:11
wazzyboy
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They're sending out surveys about deliveries as well, trying to catch posties out running late or making errors. How many managers have ever lugged those bags about in all weathers?Soon forgotten if they ever did.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:22
WindWalker
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That encapsulates all that is wrong in today's society.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:24
Parthenon
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If you really wanted to transform your business and you had extra cash to do so, wouldn't you give the workers a wage increase? To make them feel a little happier and a little more valued, then they'd perform better in their jobs.

Instead, they give bonuses to management so they spend their time devising ways of tightening the screw on the lowest level employees, increasing friction and dissatisfaction in the workplace and improving nothing.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:33
cloudymountain
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If you really wanted to transform your business and you had extra cash to do so, wouldn't you give the workers a wage increase? To make them feel a little happier and a little more valued, then they'd perform better in their jobs.

Instead, they give bonuses to management so they spend their time devising ways of tightening the screw on the lowest level employees, increasing friction and dissatisfaction in the workplace and improving nothing.
It doesn't work like that. She's the CEO for a reason and if her pay is not commensurate with that of private sector competitors,she is gone. People like her are a limited quantity, Not anyone can do her job.
Posties are not rare at all, pretty much anyone can do their job. It is simple supply and demand.
There is this very strange notion in this forum that people who are somehow working with heir hand and legs are worth more than people who use their brains. In that case, no one would ever go to university or do MBA's.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:46
Parthenon
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It doesn't work like that. She's the CEO for a reason and if her pay is not commensurate with that of private sector competitors,she is gone. People like her are a limited quantity, Not anyone can do her job.
Posties are not rare at all, pretty much anyone can do their job. It is simple supply and demand.
There is this very strange notion in this forum that people who are somehow working with heir hand and legs are worth more than people who use their brains. In that case, no one would ever go to university or do MBA's.
I think you're grossly over-exaggerating the position of some there. 'Worth more' is pushing it a bit. If this woman had a base pay of around £700k+ before the bonus then she's probably quite valuable to the company compared to the posties out there taking home 15k.

Chucking her an extra £370k as an incentive to do her job, as well as 62% bonuses for thousands of other managers seems mad when giving the people at the bottom a little bit more would surely improve service and productivity. The workers at the bottom see the people above them getting huge bonuses in return for pushing them harder, while they themselves get nothing, and it will just create dissatisfaction.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:00
Lyricalis
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A continuation of the mantra that management can only be incentivised with higher wages and bonuses, whilst for the workers it's no increases and more punitive conditions.
It's even worse than that. The workers will take industrial action (or just threaten to do so) and the media will attack them for inconveniencing the public. The politicians will attack them for this as well. They will also attack them for harming the economy. Everyone will attack them for not being grateful for having a job.

The few criticising the regime will be drowned out by this.

Nothing will change.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:43
cpu121
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Counter staff at the Royal Mail have been offered no pay rise but a lump sum tied to unspecified conditions, and have voted to strike in protest. Some will say there's a recession, they have to accept they've got to make sacrifices.
Perhaps they might if their bosses were applying that criteria to themselves, but,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...wo-thirds.html

The national postal operator has been forced to admit that it agreed a secret 62 per cent increase in bonuses for thousands of its managers last year.
Royal Mail’s chief executive Moya Greene received a £371,000 bonus, taking her pay to £1.1 million and making her one of Britain’s highest-paid officials.
A Department for Business spokesman defended the payments, saying they were “designed to incentivise managers to achieve the transformation of the business”.


We're all in this together.
Post Office Limited is now independent of Royal Mail Group.

The counter staff who have voted to strike work for the Post Office Limited. Moya Greene (and the other managers mentioned in the Telegraph article) works for Royal Mail Group.

So no, they're not it in together at all.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:13
getzls
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Instead, they give bonuses to management so they spend their time devising ways of tightening the screw on the lowest level employees, increasing friction and dissatisfaction in the workplace and improving nothing.
The management at Royal Mail are bastards, have been bastards for years and will probably always will remain bastards.
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:24
Richard1960
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A continuation of the mantra that management can only be incentivised with higher wages and bonuses, whilst for the workers it's no increases and more punitive conditions.
Yes i wonder how that can be higher management need money to incentivise them.

Whilst workers need nothing more then lower wages and harsher conditions.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:42
GibsonSG
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They're sending out surveys about deliveries as well, trying to catch posties out running late or making errors. How many managers have ever lugged those bags about in all weathers?Soon forgotten if they ever did.
Our Postman has to drag this huge cart around with him and padlock it to a lamp post every now and again so he can go about his deliveries. I feel sorry for these people and it is about time that the excuses for over-paying and giving enormous pay rises to the people at the top stops.

It is a little acknowledged fact that most of the top people are figure heads. Practically all they do all day is schmooze and take lunches. The real work is done by their underlings. Trebles all round I would say!
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:56
jcafcw
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Management should lead by example. If their workers cannot be given a pay rise then they shouldn't take one.

They also should not be looking around for a better paid job they should be looking at how they can improve their business so that everyone can (a) keep their job and (b) get pay rises together.

Finally anyone who will jump ship at the first hint of a better offer and demands these kind of financial rewards is not an asset to the business.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:56
Puterkid
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It's even worse than that. The workers will take industrial action (or just threaten to do so) and the media will attack them for inconveniencing the public. The politicians will attack them for this as well. They will also attack them for harming the economy. Everyone will attack them for not being grateful for having a job.

The few criticising the regime will be drowned out by this.

Nothing will change.
Sadly, so true

Having watched Dagenham last night, It showed it takes a lot of courage and sacrifice to fight the system, and when all the high cards are increasingly given to those at the top, it gets even more difficult.

The government is puzzling over the country's poor productivity. You get what you pay for! When employees feel undervalued and under renumerated, overworked and stressed, then it's not hard to understand why productivity is heading downwards.
What so many fail to see is that Unions are the saving grace of businesses, if only they would work with them properly.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:03
tim59
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It doesn't work like that. She's the CEO for a reason and if her pay is not commensurate with that of private sector competitors,she is gone. People like her are a limited quantity, Not anyone can do her job.
Posties are not rare at all, pretty much anyone can do their job. It is simple supply and demand.
There is this very strange notion in this forum that people who are somehow working with heir hand and legs are worth more than people who use their brains. In that case, no one would ever go to university or do MBA's.
And there is a very strange notion that people who use there brains. are worth more and know what there doing , proof state of the country. To many people at the top get paid to much plus bonus plus there goldern hand shake for doing a bad job, If it was not for the people working with there hand and legs, there would be not job for them at the top, each person in any compay is important because without each other it would not work
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:07
andykn
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It doesn't work like that. She's the CEO for a reason
Do you know what that reason is?
and if her pay is not commensurate with that of private sector competitors,she is gone.
Why could she not be paid by results, if this "transformation" is successful?
People like her are a limited quantity, Not anyone can do her job.
Posties are not rare at all, pretty much anyone can do their job. It is simple supply and demand.
There is this very strange notion in this forum that people who are somehow working with heir hand and legs are worth more than people who use their brains. In that case, no one would ever go to university or do MBA's.
The only strange notion is yours who think that people think that.

What we think is that the trouble we're in was caused by the highest paid amongst us failing spectacularly and would like to see some more results first before throwing millions around in salaries again.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:22
Bungitin
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So the stamps have gone up in price to pay management bonuses then?
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:39
Phil 2804
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So the stamps have gone up in price to pay management bonuses then?
It would seem so, it certainly hasn't been to give the ladies behind the counter a pay rise, nor has it provided them with the extra staff needed to manage the queues at the counters. If a supermarket made you wait as long to get to a checkout they'd be out of business by now.

BTW this is not an argument for competition Tory Boys, competition in postal services has not in any way improved service to the public thus far. Its led to a deterioration in my experience.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:04
cpu121
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It would seem so, it certainly hasn't been to give the ladies behind the counter a pay rise, nor has it provided them with the extra staff needed to manage the queues at the counters. If a supermarket made you wait as long to get to a checkout they'd be out of business by now.

BTW this is not an argument for competition Tory Boys, competition in postal services has not in any way improved service to the public thus far. Its led to a deterioration in my experience.
Stamp prices have nothing to do with the Post Office. Likewise the pay of Crown Post Office counter staff has nothing to do with Royal Mail.

The 373 directly-owned Crown Post Offices make an annual loss of £40 million. It would be an extremely stupid idea to make that loss even greater.
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Old 10-03-2013, 14:04
wazzyboy
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And there is a very strange notion that people who use there brains. are worth more and know what there doing , proof state of the country. To many people at the top get paid to much plus bonus plus there goldern hand shake for doing a bad job, If it was not for the people working with there hand and legs, there would be not job for them at the top, each person in any compay is important because without each other it would not work
I wouldn't have a problem if they did use their brains or if they had some. These jobs are often filled by those who only talk a good fight and often know only what they have filched from others. I've seen enough HR departments at workplaces in my time where frankly their lack of insight, dynamism or people skills is truly incredible.
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Old 10-03-2013, 14:21
wazzyboy
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I think it means staff at sorting offices, where you go to pick up mail that needs signed for when you were out etc. Not post office staff.
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Old 10-03-2013, 14:48
GibsonSG
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I wouldn't have a problem if they did use their brains or if they had some. These jobs are often filled by those who only talk a good fight and often know only what they have filched from others. I've seen enough HR departments at workplaces in my time where frankly their lack of insight, dynamism or people skills is truly incredible.
'tis true they are leeches.
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Old 10-03-2013, 22:18
mRebel
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Post Office Limited is now independent of Royal Mail Group.

The counter staff who have voted to strike work for the Post Office Limited. Moya Greene (and the other managers mentioned in the Telegraph article) works for Royal Mail Group.

So no, they're not it in together at all.
That's pedantic.
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Old 10-03-2013, 22:25
mRebel
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It doesn't work like that. She's the CEO for a reason and if her pay is not commensurate with that of private sector competitors,she is gone. People like her are a limited quantity, Not anyone can do her job.
Posties are not rare at all, pretty much anyone can do their job. It is simple supply and demand.
There is this very strange notion in this forum that people who are somehow working with heir hand and legs are worth more than people who use their brains. In that case, no one would ever go to university or do MBA's.
Do post office counter staff work only with their hands and legs? Really?

As to exec pay needing to be stratospheric, yes bankers told us that, and their pay is indeed stratospheric, and look what it's resulted in. They bust most of their industry and committed outragous frauds like Libor fixing, PIP and interest rate swaps.
Such levels of pay as we now see for execs and bankers could only be justified if they were the result of market forces, but they aren't. I suspect you know as well as I that exec pay, in both private and public sector, is determined by a Remuneration Committee, whose members are fellow execs, their mates and politicians, who award each other increasingly extravagant pay.We can only speculate on what exec pay would be if it were market determined, my guess being that for most it would be a lot less than they now get.
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Old 10-03-2013, 23:36
Spiderpig
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Two weeks ago the managers in our office got £3000 bonuses and they are the lowest level managers. We on the deleveries will get nothing but bigger deliveries to pay for their bonuses plus threats to make us work faster or get the sack. This was put to us by one of those managers just before we went out on delivery, nice place to work eh!
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