[sootysoo]

Originally Posted by Shadout

Stannis is certainly an interesting character - he's played very well and the portrayal is very close to how he comes across in the books. He's cold, he's hard, and he's driven by his sense of doing what is right and just, rather than what is decent.

I have to say though, he's not a patch on Arya though - in the books or indeed in the tv series. Maisie Williams has done an amazing job there!

I have to agree. I love the Arya storyline and always look forward to her scenes. She's a fantastic actress and apart from John Snow's arc, I enjoy her story the most.

[ivyteainn]

Originally Posted by Shadout

I disagree, Renly was probably the least undesirable option of the three other kings (Joffrey and Stannis being the others) to Robb, but he still wouldn't accept him as King of all Westeros - remember, Catelyn said as much when she went as an envoy to both Renly and Stannis.

Robb wants to be the King in the North as pointed out. He also wants his sisters back, which means he has to deal with the South to an extent, but there's no way he would bend the knee to anybody.

The problem for Robb is that all three of claimants of the Iron Throne would have suppressed his rebellion once they had united the south. The north couldn't have resisted the full might of the Iron Throne.

I agree Renly would have been the easiest one for Robb to accept as an liege. I suspect that you're also right that he wouldn't have paid homage to him. The Starks are wedded to their beliefs once they adopted it.

Spoiler

Stannis and Joffrey are absolute horrible choices to rule Westeros. Renly had many characteristics to be a good king; whether he was strong is another matter. Whether Westeros would accept a gay king is another issue.

In many ways, the Starks suffer from the same blinders that Stannis has. Neither Ned or Robb considered the longer term effects of their decisions. Ultimately, both paid with their lives. I don't consider that spoiler since most people in this forum have read the books.

[vicky2424]

Most people from this forum may have read the books, that doesn't mean all of them have. Given this is the tv forum, that is a spoiler

[Shadout]

Originally Posted by ivyteainn

The problem for Robb is that all three of claimants of the Iron Throne would have suppressed his rebellion once they had united the south. The north couldn't have resisted the full might of the Iron Throne.

I agree Renly would have been the easiest one for Robb to accept as an liege. I suspect that you're also right that he wouldn't have paid homage to him. The Starks are wedded to their beliefs once they adopted it.

Spoiler

Stannis and Joffrey are absolute horrible choices to rule Westeros. Renly had many characteristics to be a good king; whether he was strong is another matter. Whether Westeros would accept a gay king is another issue.

In many ways, the Starks suffer from the same blinders that Stannis has. Neither Ned or Robb considered the longer term effects of their decisions. Ultimately, both paid with their lives. I don't consider that spoiler since most people in this forum have read the books.

Renly said that he didn't really care what happened North of the Neck, just as long as people saw Robb bending the knee. Once that had been done, Renly would have been quite happy for Robb to be the King in the North while Renly ruled in the South.

A couple of thoughts on what's contained in the spoilered bit;

1. The Starks are indeed the dumbest of the houses. Unfortunately, this seems to go hand-in-hand with being noble in deed as well as in name. Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Sansa - at various points in the books and the tv series I have been grinding my teeth at them doing something downright stupid.

Bran seems to have his head switched on though, and Arya just kicks arse! Jon could go either way, so I haven't torn out any hair over his actions yet, and

Spoiler

Sansa seems to be wising up a bit in the later books

2. Westeros not accepting a gay king? Not sure about that, the Targaeryen's had their "quirks" for a long time without too many batting an eyelid. It was only when Aerys went completely off the reservation that there was an uprising. The only real problem would have been the lack of an heir (unless Renly and Margaery asked Loras for "assistance" as she suggested), but being king - he would be within his rights to name an heir rather than beget one in the more traditional manner.

[srhDS]

I agree about Westeros "accepting" any king well frankly the king is the king and there's not much that can be done about it.
The peasants don't care who's king and couldn't do much even if they did.
The merchants don't really care as long as they're not being taxed too much and even then there's not a lot they can do about it. I suppose if enough of them got together with enough wealth they could hire in a mercenary army but that's unlikely. A costly waste of time, money, men and would likely lead to a lot of heads on spikes.
The nobles will generally follow who ever is king. Unless the king goes really crazy. And then you need someone with a claim to the throne, a cause to rally behind and the support of enough military might to take the crown.
Once on the throne it is generally difficult to be removed. So had Renly won the war and become king he would have been accepted as king no matter his bedroom antics. Would the nobles really call their banners and go to war (expensive, dangerous and not that much fun) to support some lord who might have some ancestor related to a previous king somewhere in his family tree whose rallying cry is "Renly likes men!"? Especially as they would have just fought a war to put Renly on the throne. If it weren't for Stannis' use of black magic to clear his path to the throne then Renly would likely have won.

[Corwin]

The Wildlings seem pretty well equiped

[darthbibble]

When series 3 begins, is there going to be separate series 3 threads for those who have read the books and those who haven't?

[srhDS]

Originally Posted by darthbibble

When series 3 begins, is there going to be separate series 3 threads for those who have read the books and those who haven't?

There may be a free for all book reader thread with no holds barred.
But this thread is for everyone. There should be no spoilers. Can people please stop putting book spoilers in here (even tagged ones). This is a thread for everyone.

[Shadout]

Three weeks to go and counting. I can't remember the last time I was so keyed up for a tv show!

[tands]

Originally Posted by Shadout

Stannis is certainly an interesting character - he's played very well and the portrayal is very close to how he comes across in the books. He's cold, he's hard, and he's driven by his sense of doing what is right and just, rather than what is decent

Agreed, though I think Stannis and his sense of doing what is right and just is a far closer bed companion to what is decent than say the devious scheming Tywin Lannister or Joffrey get up to in the name of the Realm.

[roseguy64]

Originally Posted by Apple_Crumble

I hope one of my favourite characters, Stannis, is in season three.

The iron throne is mine by right ...

Why wouldn't he be?

[roseguy64]

Originally Posted by ivyteainn

The problem for Robb is that all three of claimants of the Iron Throne would have suppressed his rebellion once they had united the south. The north couldn't have resisted the full might of the Iron Throne.

The North is very defensible actually. Moat Cailin is virtually impassable from the south if needs be. They'd need to muster a strong fleet though but once that's done the north can defend itself from land and sea.

[Cadiva]

Originally Posted by darthbibble

When series 3 begins, is there going to be separate series 3 threads for those who have read the books and those who haven't?

There's usually a separate thread for spoilers and book readers yup The TV thread discussion is usually kept to US pace and what's been seen on screen only.

[Apple_Crumble]

Originally Posted by roseguy64

Why wouldn't he be?

He may have gone on his hols with Melisandre and smoke baby Hence the 'I hope'.

[Anachrony]

School of Thrones.

[Shute]

Originally Posted by Shadout

2. Westeros not accepting a gay king? Not sure about that... The only real problem would have been the lack of an heir (unless Renly and Margaery asked Loras for "assistance" as she suggested), but being king - he would be within his rights to name an heir rather than beget one in the more traditional manner.

Didn't stop Edward II fathering at least 5 children including at least one illegitimate son.

[SilverCrown]

Originally Posted by Anachrony

School of Thrones.

I watched that last night. Very funny.

[srhDS]

Originally Posted by Shute

Didn't stop Edward II fathering at least 5 children including at least one illegitimate son.

His fate would be a fitting one for Joffery, who would wield the red hot poker though?

[ally08]

Glad to see some Stannis love on here, I think the actor is doing a marvellous job of giving life to a character that could have been pretty hateful.

I love the program for giving a bit of depth to characters that are not always fully fleshed out in the books.

Stannis may be dour and driven by honour but they have given him some interesting traits, I still laugh at him correcting Davos on his grammar and in the battle he was fierce as hell, him cutting that mans head in half and screaming to be allowed to continue to fight made the idea of Joffrey giving him a red smile absolutley hilarious.

Could probably have done without seeing him boff the red priestess on a table mind.

[Apple_Crumble]

Originally Posted by ally08

Glad to see some Stannis love on here, I think the actor is doing a marvellous job of giving life to a character that could have been pretty hateful.

Very good actor is Stephen Dillane.

[Greyjoy12]

I wasnt expecting to like Stannis when he first appeared but he quickly became one of my favourite characters on the show. In a world full of backstabbers and cowards (see Joff) its refreshing to see someone who is so brave. Sure he may have his faults but who cant love a guy who has just seen half of his forces blown to bits in Blackwater Bay yet still leads his remaining men into battle himself and is the first man over the wall without even wearing a helmet I might add!

So yeah I'm Team Stannis all the way too. Cant wait to see what he has lined up this season!

[mr muggles]

Before I go on, I havent read the books!

Just intriuged by a couple of things...

Spoiler

I've read online that both Sansa & Catelyn are hated by some readers. I get the point that some may find Sansa 'weak' (though personally after reading titbits online, hers is a journey I find very interesting!)

Spoiler

I know that Catelyn has made some decisions based on 'heart' which have led to disastrous consequences, but, along with Arya, I love her character (tv version), and cant wait to see her zombiefied after the Red wedding. Is she despised by readers? She was certainly the 'heart' of the 1st tv series (and the lady playing her was amazing).

I finally got the dvd boxed set, so am boning up for the 3rd series. Theres so many bloody characters to keep up with!

[Claymore95]

Originally Posted by srhDS

His fate would be a fitting one for Joffery, who would wield the red hot poker though?

The queue for that privelege would probably stretch up to the Wall and back.

[ally08]

Originally Posted by mr muggles

Before I go on, I havent read the books!

Just intriuged by a couple of things...

Spoiler

I've read online that both Sansa & Catelyn are hated by some readers. I get the point that some may find Sansa 'weak' (though personally after reading titbits online, hers is a journey I find very interesting!)

Spoiler

I know that Catelyn has made some decisions based on 'heart' which have led to disastrous consequences, but, along with Arya, I love her character (tv version), and cant wait to see her zombiefied after the Red wedding. Is she despised by readers? She was certainly the 'heart' of the 1st tv series (and the lady playing her was amazing).

I finally got the dvd boxed set, so am boning up for the 3rd series. Theres so many bloody characters to keep up with!

I think a lot of the Sansa and Cat hate comes from the fact that their actions, either directly or indirectly caused a bad situation to become worse and resulted in the death of Ned.

Also a lot of Cat hate comes from the way she treated Jon Snow.

Something that doesn't help Sansa's cause is that they have aged all the kids up in the show, for obvious reasons really.

If you think of her actions as those of a spoiled and over romantic 11 year old they seem a bit less hateful.

I personally can't stand Cat, she gets right on my nerves and she isn't half as clever as she thinks she is, Michelle Fairley (sp) is an amazing actress though and makes her a lot more sympathetic.

The girl who plays Sansa, sorry can't remember her name, had a shaky start but has come into her own massively over the last series.

She is one of my favourites now.

[mr muggles]

Originally Posted by ally08

I think a lot of the Sansa and Cat hate comes from the fact that their actions, either directly or indirectly caused a bad situation to become worse and resulted in the death of Ned.

Also a lot of Cat hate comes from the way she treated Jon Snow.

Something that doesn't help Sansa's cause is that they have aged all the kids up in the show, for obvious reasons really.

If you think of her actions as those of a spoiled and over romantic 11 year old they seem a bit less hateful.

I personally can't stand Cat, she gets right on my nerves and she isn't half as clever as she thinks she is, Michelle Fairley (sp) is an amazing actress though and makes her a lot more sympathetic.

The girl who plays Sansa, sorry can't remember her name, had a shaky start but has come into her own massively over the last series.

She is one of my favourites now.

Thanks for responding . Yep, I really like Sansa too. She may not be a physical fighter as Arya, but she is put through more mental cruelty than any other character in the show! And shes still standing! Have bought the first two books online,