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Does anyone else think Kate Bush is a musical genius?


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Old 06-03-2013, 17:28
konebyvax
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Genuinely don't know so going to ask: Did Ms Bush have any sort of success Worldwide?
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:31
designer84
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Genuinely don't know so going to ask: Did Ms Bush have any sort of success Worldwide?
Many of her albums went Gold/Platinum in Canada and America. Although from what I know "The Sensual World" was her best received or biggest album in America. I could be wrong though
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:33
Smudged
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Of course there have been many female acts who have been determined and headstrong, before and after Kate Bush. But I'd say that Kate Bush was very important, and did make a significant contribution to helping female acts become more independent than they used to be over the future decades.
Important and significant yes. The only thing I've been disagreeing with is the idea that she was the first and only female artist to make such a contribution, as if it's all down to her.

None of this has anything to do with whether she could be called a genius in terms of the actual music though imo.
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:52
Alrightmate
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Important and significant yes. The only thing I've been disagreeing with is the idea that she was the first and only female artist to make such a contribution, as if it's all down to her.

None of this has anything to do with whether she could be called a genius in terms of the actual music though imo.
Well as I said, she was the first woman to have a UK Number One with a self-written song.
She was also the first British solo female artist to top the UK album charts, and the first female artist ever to enter the album chart at Number One
No one before her up until that point.

I think it would be fair to say that with these successes she will have opened doors for women which were previously shut, allowed women to be given chances they wouldn't have before, and for the industry to be prepared to take more of a risk on female acts having more creative power in general.
If you consider the era at the time, it was nothing like today where gender equality is seen to be important. It may be taken for granted today that women can write their own songs and be successful but back then the environment made it much more difficult.
Even given her success at the time of Wuthering Heights she was dismissed as just a gimmick.

No, you're right. This doesn't have anything to do with whether she's a musical genius or not. I agree with you on that.
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:53
Hav_mor91
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Important and significant yes. The only thing I've been disagreeing with is the idea that she was the first and only female artist to make such a contribution, as if it's all down to her.

None of this has anything to do with whether she could be called a genius in terms of the actual music though imo.
I see the confusion and im in agreement that she was not the only one but i would argue probably the most important and prolific
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:00
mushymanrob
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Oh right, are we all talking about the UK music scene rather than music in general? Maybe that's why some people can't see the bigger picture and seem to think all female artists were seen as second class citizens and not capable of making music on their own until Kate Bush came along .
no difference, what matters if patti smith , joni mitchel or anyone had bigger/earlier success somewhere else? kate bush is hardly ripping them off.

as i see it, it what happened here that matters, our british music scene, so my view will always be from a uk standpoint unless the topic is identified as a worldwide one.
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:04
Fast Fuse
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Yes - definitely genius.
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:10
Smudged
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I see the confusion and im in agreement that she was not the only one but i would argue probably the most important and prolific
I have just never liked this idea that if it wasn't for X artist, then Y artist wouldn't exist. I could quite easily say if it wasn't for the female artists paving the way before Kate Bush, she wouldn't have got the creative freedom she did. I mean where does it end? If it wasn't for cavemen banging sticks together, music wouldn't exist?

no difference, what matters if patti smith , joni mitchel or anyone had bigger/earlier success somewhere else? kate bush is hardly ripping them off.
Stop confusing the issue. We're talking about creative freedom and influence, nothing to do with copying and also not purely about commercial success.
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:12
WelshNige
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I personally think she is a musical genius, having adored her work for over 30 years, but I can also see why some would think otherwise....
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:16
tangsman
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I think she's overated myself.
I have Hounds of Love and The Whole Story but think there is a lot of rubbish in her back catalogue.
Wasn't impressed with her last offering.
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:16
Hound of Love
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Many of her albums went Gold/Platinum in Canada and America. Although from what I know "The Sensual World" was her best received or biggest album in America. I could be wrong though
Very popular in Europe too, particularly France.
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Old 06-03-2013, 18:55
ashtray88
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I was listening to "Wuthering Heights" today and thinking it's probably one of the greatest songs ever written, lol.
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Old 06-03-2013, 19:15
Black Velvet
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When Kate first came on to the music scene back in 1978 there wasn't anybody quite like her in music. When I first heard her she was unique and original. She was so different. I loved her the first time I heard her and still feel the same to this day.
I so love her songs. There is a depth to them which appeals to me.
Yes I would agree that Kate is a musical genuis.
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Old 06-03-2013, 19:38
collit
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Not sure about the title of genius. I do think she has an amazing talent and is rather lovely too.
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Old 06-03-2013, 19:48
hume
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No one in their right mind doubts it.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:43
mushymanrob
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Stop confusing the issue. We're talking about creative freedom and influence, nothing to do with copying and also not purely about commercial success.
...and how do you gauge that? id still suggest that kate was both more influencial and creative. just look at wuthering heights alone, radically different at a time when punk, rock and disco were the big genres...yet still broke the barriers and was endorsed by the music buying public.

I was listening to "Wuthering Heights" today and thinking it's probably one of the greatest songs ever written, lol.
agreed.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:55
Glawster2002
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Did artists like Patti Smith or Joni Mitchell not have creative control over their music then?

I'm not arguing that Kate Bush isn't very influential, I just have a hard time laying everything at her door as if she was the only creative and influential female artist around.
Except that it is very unlikely either Patti Smith or Joni Mitchell had such creative control over their music from day one. It would only have been achieved after commercial success.

As has already been said...

Well as I said, she was the first woman to have a UK Number One with a self-written song.
She was also the first British solo female artist to top the UK album charts, and the first female artist ever to enter the album chart at Number One
No one before her up until that point.
This is what makes her so influential as what she achieved at such a young age had never been done before in this country..

I was a teenager in the 1970s and the world was a very different place and you have to put what she did in the context of the time, and within that context what did achieved have a very lasting impact.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:13
mushymanrob
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This is what makes her so influential as what she achieved at such a young age had never been done before in this country..

I was a teenager in the 1970s and the world was a very different place and you have to put what she did in the context of the time, and within that context what did achieved have a very lasting impact.
i was 21 in 1978, i agree, in context her impact was huge, she was totally original and swam against the current.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:35
jackbell
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I would say she was a musical pop genius and comparable to all the great pop artists of the 20th Century.

A musical genius compared to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms? No.
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Old 07-03-2013, 13:08
Smudged
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I mentioned Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell because they were before Kate Bush and created albums that are regularly voted amongst the best of all time. I happen to think that went some way to helping with the perception and influence of women in music too. If you want to downplay the importance of the female artists before Kate Bush and make out they didn't have creative control over what they were doing, that's up to you.
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Old 07-03-2013, 14:04
Glawster2002
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I mentioned Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell because they were before Kate Bush and created albums that are regularly voted amongst the best of all time. I happen to think that went some way to helping with the perception and influence of women in music too. If you want to downplay the importance of the female artists before Kate Bush and make out they didn't have creative control over what they were doing, that's up to you.
I am not down-playing their achievements at all, and you could also add the likes of Dusty Springfield and Sandy Shaw to that list, however none of them achieved what Kate achieved with her very first single at such a young age in the UK, in terms of having total control with their music from day 1.
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Old 07-03-2013, 14:21
jackbell
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I mentioned Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell because they were before Kate Bush and created albums that are regularly voted amongst the best of all time. I happen to think that went some way to helping with the perception and influence of women in music too. If you want to downplay the importance of the female artists before Kate Bush and make out they didn't have creative control over what they were doing, that's up to you.
Why I think Kate Bush was different was her music didn't fit into any particular category. Her earliest singles were very broadly pop, but her albums weren't quite folk, weren't quite new wave, weren't quite musical theatre, weren't quite art rock but had elements of these.

I dislike comparisons to her contemporaries but I suppose I would suggest like one part Lynsey De Paul, one part Roxy Music, one part Joni Mitchell with a Classical and progressive rock backing. That's quite a combination in an 18 year old making her first record.
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Old 07-03-2013, 14:21
mushymanrob
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I mentioned Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell because they were before Kate Bush and created albums that are regularly voted amongst the best of all time. I happen to think that went some way to helping with the perception and influence of women in music too. If you want to downplay the importance of the female artists before Kate Bush and make out they didn't have creative control over what they were doing, that's up to you.
its not a case of downplaying anyone as such, and yes there were alot of women in music who influenced , created, cut new ground, but imho from a uk perspective, kate was the biggest.
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Old 07-03-2013, 16:12
Smudged
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I'm not trying to rank the female artists we're discussing by any criteria. I'm simply saying you can't talk about things like creative control and the influence of female artists without giving due credit to the artists before Kate Bush. The fact is she wasn't the first woman to have creative control and freedom over her music and to have both critical acclaim and mainstream success with it. To say things like that started with Kate Bush is giving her a little more credit than she deserves imo.
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Old 07-03-2013, 16:17
designer84
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I'm not trying to rank the female artists we're discussing by any criteria. I'm simply saying you can't talk about things like creative control and the influence of female artists without giving due credit to the artists before Kate Bush. The fact is she wasn't the first woman to have creative control and freedom over her music and to have both critical acclaim and mainstream success with it. To say things like that started with Kate Bush is giving her a little more credit than she deserves imo.
Actually in the UK she WAS the first female to go to No.1 with her debut single, also the youngest artist to do that with a self penned song. It was unheard of to give a new artist such freedom in their creative choices. EMI let her spend 3 years developing her sound before she hit the charts in 1978. She had more freedom than most artists did even after their 2nd-3rd album
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