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Dreading River Song's final song...


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Old 17-03-2013, 01:28
TotallyTellyMas
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The end is approaching and I for one will definitely be shedding a tear on the day in which Doctor Who loses one of it's most fascinating and beautiful characters, River Song.

People have been speculating that the Doctor may prevent River's death but if he stops the stuff from happening at the library, that will mean she never existed in the first place to meet Tennant's doctor...

The Doctor: "Time can be re-written"
River: "Not those times. Not one bit. Don't you dare!"

"You watch us run!"


I'm only looking forward to the new series for River! Hope she stays till the 50th but think it'd be unfair if the 50th is focused around her as a lot of people don't like her as much as I do.

River Song - The most important woman in the Doctor's life. Ever. "Hello Sweetie!"
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Old 17-03-2013, 09:37
GDK
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I like River too. I like her character and the way her story is fragmented and in the wrong order (from our and the Doctor's PoV).

We've (probably) already seen her just prior to departure for the Library - the future Doctor (still 11) and River who accidentally enter the present Doctor's TARDIS in "Last Night".

In that, future River made no comment about the present Doctor's TARDIS interior - she mistook it for her future Doctor's. Either future River is not very observant (unlikely) or that future Doctor is from a point before "The Snowmen".

I suppose you could theorise that future Doctor had reverted to an earlier "desktop", but it could mean that in "The Snowmen" he's grieving for River too and not just Amy and Rory.

We could still meet an earlier version of River of course.

And also what's to stop the Doctor returning to the library and retrieving River from the computer anyway? He'd only have to create a body for her to live in. Shouldn't be a problem for a being like the Doctor, surely? Maybe future Doctor has already done that.

I don't think any of this will be in the special though.

Just my 10, FWIW.

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Old 17-03-2013, 09:51
nanscombe
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She gave up her regenerations to save him maybe he could return the favour.

When he is about to regenerate go back to the library and merge his regenerating body with her stored consciousness and voila next Doctor who just happens to be female.
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Old 17-03-2013, 10:01
Hot Dogg
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Have to admit I'm totally smitten with River as well..
I think we may see more of her yet..
Remember that River didn't know 10 when she met him in the library. He could have been equally from after her time than before it.
I don't think her being a large part of the 50th special would be appropriate as I feel it should be mainly about the Doctors..
Although there would be some interesting dialogue...
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Old 17-03-2013, 10:04
Airborae
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River Song - The most important woman in the Doctor's life. Ever. "Hello Sweetie!"
I think you will find that was Susan. His granddaughter.
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Old 17-03-2013, 10:07
GDK
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Also in "First Night", has anyone got any theories as to why the River in the opening sequence has a battered diary, but later the same River has a new diary? Is it just a continuity error?

We're clearly meant to assume that the River in the opening sequence in Stormcage and hears the TARDIS materialising is the same River that enters the TARDIS.

The Moff usually writes things that reward paying close attention, so surely not a continuity error, but what does it really mean?
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Old 17-03-2013, 11:38
JohnnyForget
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River's story is to all intents and purposes told.

She obviously met the 11th Doctor innumerable times off-screen. I believe she meets future Doctors innumerable times too but those meetings should be almost invariably off-screen too. I also believe she additionally met the 10th Doctor once, twice or thrice off-screen after (from his and our point of view) the library.

There is no real need to see her receiving the sonic screwdriver she has in the library from the Doctor in an on-screen adventure, but if we do I believe it should be the 12th Doctor who gives it to her.
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Old 17-03-2013, 11:47
bp2
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I can't wait for her last appearence, she has become very annoying. She is the worst character ever to appear on Doctor Who in my opinion. Also I wouldn't say she is the most important woman in the doctor's life though I would agree she is probably the most important woman to the eleventh doctor.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:12
Lulz77
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In that, future River made no comment about the present Doctor's TARDIS interior - she mistook it for her future Doctor's. Either future River is not very observant (unlikely) or that future Doctor is from a point before "The Snowmen".

I suppose you could theorise that future Doctor had reverted to an earlier "desktop", but it could mean that in "The Snowmen" he's grieving for River too and not just Amy and Rory
Or, and I known this sounds crazy but bear with me, it was written and filmed before they know they were making a new TARDIS.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:20
JohnnyForget
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River Song - The most important woman in the Doctor's life. Ever. "Hello Sweetie!"

I think you will find that was Susan. His granddaughter.
Or maybe Susan's grandmother.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:36
C. Samurai
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River Song - The most important woman in the Doctor's life. Ever. "Hello Sweetie!"
No, that would be Susan's grandmother.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:40
ShootyDogThing
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No, that would be Susan's grandmother.
What if she is Susan's grandmother?!

But seriously, I hope Moffat doesn't go back on River's already established death, it would undermine her whole story.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:59
GDK
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Or, and I known this sounds crazy but bear with me, it was written and filmed before they know they were making a new TARDIS.
Yes, I know that of course.

I just thought it would be interesting to discuss in-story explanations.

I know this sounds crazy, but bear with me, there's really no need for the patronising tone.

Let's play nice? Please? I come on this forum for pleasure, not to antagonise or to be antagonised.
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Old 17-03-2013, 12:59
dalekaddison
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I don't think you understand the concept of Time Travel used in this regard. He can send her off to the library then hop back and have a picnic with her at a Sontaran Wedding. She can keep turning up forever.

And I wouldn't say she was the most important person to the Doctor though. Maybe at the moment perhaps, and his companion. But I bet it was probably his Wife originally before something happened to her. Let's hope we never find out what, ruins the mystery. Also any of his kids, before something happened to them. Something had to have happened for them not to be in A Unearthly Child I guess. Wouldn't his wife run away with him there?

Perhaps each Doctor is in love with a different person. One loved his Wife who he had children with, Ten loves Rose, Eleven loves River, etc.

If I used my over thinking powers on something useful I could be quite dangerous.
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Old 17-03-2013, 13:09
Lulz77
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Yes, I know that of course.

I just thought it would be interesting to discuss in-story explanations.

I know this sounds crazy, but bear with me, there's really no need for the patronising tone.

Let's play nice? Please? I come on this forum for pleasure, not to antagonise or to be antagonised.
Bit of an overreaction. I was kidding, in a friendly way. My mistake, it wasnt very obvious; perhaps I should of put one of these:
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Old 17-03-2013, 15:26
Granny McSmith
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I love River. I feel a bit cheated that we're not going to see her with future Doctors. Her Regeneration ability was squandered imo. Another actress could have taken the role for later Doctors, and she could have made the odd appearance now and then to keep the Doctor on his toes and stop him getting too kissy-kissy with companions.
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Old 17-03-2013, 17:59
Airborae
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I love River. I feel a bit cheated that we're not going to see her with future Doctors. Her Regeneration ability was squandered imo. Another actress could have taken the role for later Doctors, and she could have made the odd appearance now and then to keep the Doctor on his toes and stop him getting too kissy-kissy with companions.
River could have turned into a man.
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Old 17-03-2013, 18:03
Granny McSmith
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River could have turned into a man.
No, no, no!
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Old 17-03-2013, 18:11
Lulz77
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I love River. I feel a bit cheated that we're not going to see her with future Doctors. Her Regeneration ability was squandered imo. Another actress could have taken the role for later Doctors, and she could have made the odd appearance now and then to keep the Doctor on his toes and stop him getting too kissy-kissy with companions.
Completely agree. Moffat had a chance to create a character who could of kept popping up every so often, like the Brigadier, but forever. Why he decided to then go and show us all of her regenerations I'll never know. Such a wasted opportunity. Especially since he then went on to have her marry the Doctor. If you're going to do that, give her the chance to outlive any actor, much like the Doctor.

Of course, he could rewrite her death and have any future incarnations be after Alex Kingston but I'd hate that because the whole point of this story has been we've always known how she'll die.
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Old 17-03-2013, 18:16
GDK
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Bit of an overreaction. I was kidding, in a friendly way. My mistake, it wasnt very obvious; perhaps I should of put one of these:
OK. Thanks. Perhaps I was over sensitised given the other recent interaction. It's very hard to convey or read intended meaning, especially irony, in a text only medium like this forum.
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Old 17-03-2013, 18:24
GDK
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Completely agree. Moffat had a chance to create a character who could of kept popping up every so often, like the Brigadier, but forever. Why he decided to then go and show us all of her regenerations I'll never know. Such a wasted opportunity. Especially since he then went on to have her marry the Doctor. If you're going to do that, give her the chance to outlive any actor, much like the Doctor.

Of course, he could rewrite her death and have any future incarnations be after Alex Kingston but I'd hate that because the whole point of this story has been we've always known how she'll die.
I agree that it felt like River's regeneration ability was squandered. It could easily have been written so that she used just one of her regenerations.

I'm less sure about future reappearances. We've seen her apparent end in the Library as River, Alex Kingston, but you could continue without rewriting that. She'd have to be recovered from CAL and given a body that could regenerate to always be able to pop up for future Doctors with different actors.
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Old 17-03-2013, 20:01
Shawn_Lunn
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I like River a lot but I do think the show is moving away from her and that we're closing to her personally heading to the Library now.
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Old 17-03-2013, 20:18
Granny McSmith
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I agree that it felt like River's regeneration ability was squandered. It could easily have been written so that she used just one of her regenerations.

I'm less sure about future reappearances. We've seen her apparent end in the Library as River, Alex Kingston, but you could continue without rewriting that. She'd have to be recovered from CAL and given a body that could regenerate to always be able to pop up for future Doctors with different actors.
Ah, you're right; I'd forgotten that she was living backwards, so to speak.

Well, Moffat should have worked something out - he's the writer, not me. What does he get paid for?
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Old 17-03-2013, 20:21
Sophie ~Oohie~
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Ah, you're right; I'd forgotten that she was living backwards, so to speak.

Well, Moffat should have worked something out - he's the writer, not me. What does he get paid for?
Well I bet you won't be complaining about the Doctor being devastated when she leaves for good!
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Old 17-03-2013, 20:21
saladfingers81
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It does feel like Rivers story is done. I think its a shame for me that it never quite delivered what I hoped but that's just my opinion. I do think her story needs a definite full stop so I think we may see her assisting the Doctor one or two more times and then I think it will be time to send her to the library and say goodbye. It does feel oddly anti climactic. The River story arc somehow feels a bit dated now the ponds have gone. And yet at the same time it feels unresolved.
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