[DevonBloke]

I love the iPhone but they do seem to be losing it. 137 billion would pay for an awful lot of R&D. They seem to be playing catch up all the time now. I really thought Apple would be the first to use that snazzy new weatherproof tech but Sony have beaten them to it.

[whoever,hey]

Originally Posted by Anika Hanson

They are loosing market share but are still leading in some regions. I think the problem for Apple is that although they are doing well, there isn't really any room for growth. I think they have pretty much saturated the market. Whereas the android manufacturer's are seen as up and coming. The latest advert wasn't anything out of the ordinary for Apple, they have always made outlandish claims.

Do you mean Apple customers are a niche that is saturating, where as android is main stream now and still growing?

[Thine Wonk]

Originally Posted by Anika Hanson

They are loosing market share but are still leading in some regions. I think the problem for Apple is that although they are doing well, there isn't really any room for growth. I think they have pretty much saturated the market. Whereas the android manufacturer's are seen as up and coming. The latest advert wasn't anything out of the ordinary for Apple, they have always made outlandish claims.

The total addressable market for smartphones is expected to be 918.6 million smartphones worldwide in 2013.

Apple sells around 100 million, so only 1/10th of the total addressable market. That doesn't sound to me like they have saturated the market.

[whoever,hey]

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

The total addressable market for smartphones is expected to be 918.6 million smartphones worldwide in 2013.

Apple sells around 100 million, so only 1/10th of the total addressable market. That doesn't sound to me like they have no room for growth.

Maybe they've saturated the market that want small screens?

[KieranDS]

It's a standard marketing page? It is clever though. If you had no real understanding or knowledge of phone hardware or software, like most casual phone buyers, the buzz words they used on the page would attract potential buyers.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

The total addressable market for smartphones is expected to be 918.6 million smartphones worldwide in 2013.

Apple sells around 100 million, so only 1/10th of the total addressable market. That doesn't sound to me like they have saturated the market.

Apple are looking for the higher end sales though so not all smartphones would ever all be iPhone's.

That's an advantage Android has that there is a large range of handsets available at all price points.

[whoever,hey]

Originally Posted by alan1302

Apple are looking for the higher end sales though so not all smartphones would ever all be iPhone's.

That's an advantage Android has that there is a large range of handsets available at all price points.

Do high end users only want small screens then?

Bizarre.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

According to data from an ad research company, Samsung increased it's U.S advertising budget from $78 million in 2011 to $401 million in 2012. More than Apple spend.

Is that for Samsung as a whole?
If so then it's hardly surprising they spend more given how many more products Samsung produce than Apple.

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by Step666

Is that for Samsung as a whole?
If so then it's hardly surprising they spend more given how many more products Samsung produce than Apple.

its more than Apple spent, sure but not massively so. Same source gave Apple's spend as $333m. All that's really happened is Samsung have gone from a third of apple's spend to something more in line with what Apple do.

(Figures are specifically for phone advertising, but even then Samsung have more products to advertise than Apple)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...577771618.html

[swordman]

There are now three top notch new smartphone on the market HTC one, Sony z and s4 and with all the hype around the s4 last week this is apples cry for attention - Remember there is the iPhone 5 when your making your choice.

Problem is that it does come across as a little desperate and each point is carefully phrased to avoid saying any are the best/highest spec which obviously they can't do for any feature.

They need to sell their marketing hype to punters who will buy apple regardless. It isn't hard to see that the iPhone as a phone alone without an apple logo would sink without trace.

[alanwarwic]

They are still doing well enough to be the number one topic of conversation.

[charliesays]

Apple never usually get defensive yet there's been numerous examples recently.

Fact is they are now behind the likes of Samsung, HTC and Nokia and they know it. They need to up their game and quickly because strong competition only benefits the consumer.

[Air Resistance]

Wow, what a simple wind up opportunity. I don't think I've seen such a none significant reason to start a os debate thread.

Apple in shock promoting their products scandal....

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Steve Jobs used to say how everything was done, he used to guide the marketing, the R&D, the ethics and the direction of the company. Now, without him we just see stifled innovation, mixed marketing messages "the new iPad" really?, then when the new one came out bloggers were calling it the 'new new iPad' - incredibly badly thought out and Steve would never have allowed it.

Revenues are down, stocks are down, product innovation has declined and they've taken to suing or putting down the competition on their website, rather than saying how great their products are, that all smacks of desperation to me.

Nobody is saying they are on their last legs, just that it is now a company in decline from the heights it was once at, and will probably continue that way for a while.

Apple was far from a one man band. The man responsible for all the designs of Apple's most successful products Jony Ive is still there and has a bigger role than ever now. I'm not aware that the "new ipad" product name had any impact on sales. It was a very successful tablet.

As for suing people.. well when you consider this:

http://www.gizmodigit.com/wp-content...Comparison.jpg
http://www.techmynd.com/wp-content/u...ab-vs-ipad.jpg

You can see why they were a little miffed. Don't under estimate how much Samsung profited from the above tactic. They got their foot in the door of a very competitive and lucrative market by blatantly ripping off the competition at a lower price point. Microsoft on the other hand, who did their own thing and tried to be unique are struggling with their tablet offering and phones. As are HTC. Samsung would be no where if it wasn't for Apple's design work and Android would be no where if it wasn't for the iOS interface.

And judging from the recently announced Samsung gaming pad:

http://swaggnews.com/wp-content/uplo..._640screen.jpg

It appears Samsung's "innovation" continues at pace.

Maybe one day they'll release a product that doesn't look like something another company has been successful with. But I won't hold my breath.

[konebyvax]

Amazing how the smartphone market is panning out to be just like the PC/Mac market ended up. Apple have a stark choice - reduce their prices and sell more phones/retain market share for the same overall profit figure or keep their prices artificially high and go for the (dwindling?) fanboy market, sell less but at a huge mark up thereby maintaining their overall profitability figure but lower market share %tage. Which way will they go, I wonder? Android seems to be a juggernaut even a company like Apple cannot compete against.

Perversely, Job's premature demise may just have preserved his his legendary status more than if he was still here and struggling to keep up the fight with Android. I really don't think whoever was at the helm would make a huge difference in the current market.

[grumpyoldbat]

I think they'll go for the lesser market share and stick with the higher profits as their profit levels are still very high.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by konebyvax

Amazing how the smartphone market is panning out to be just like the PC/Mac market ended up. Apple have a stark choice - reduce their prices and sell more phones/retain market share for the same overall profit figure or keep their prices artificially high and go for the (dwindling?) fanboy market, sell less but at a huge mark up thereby maintaining their overall profitability figure but lower market share %tage. Which way will they go, I wonder? Android seems to be a juggernaut even a company like Apple cannot compete against.

Perversely, Job's premature demise may just have preserved his his legendary status more than if he was still here and struggling to keep up the fight with Android. I really don't think whoever was at the helm would make a huge difference in the current market.

Do me a favour, next time you're near an Apple store, walk into it, have a look around and tell me if it's full of "fan boys". Because whenever I walk into or past an Apple store and look in it, all I see is a large demographic of people. Young kids. Old people. Middle aged people. Families. Young professionals. A wide spread of people all looking at various different products and playing around with them. A lot of people sat at the back being taught how to use products and applications. Now, if that's a company with a dwindling customer base made up of only "fan boys" then i'd love to see what the opposite is. And they are by far the busiest technology store on the high street by miles. I can walk into a PC World or Curries and the place is empty.

Thankfully for Apple they don't just rely on a phone. They sell lots more. They're still the market leader when it comes to portable music devices. They're arguably still the market leader when it comes to laptops. Yes android has eaten into the success of the iphone but that was never going to last. But they're still ticking over very nicely and they are far from turning into a company only "fan boys" are loyal to.

[konebyvax]

Apologies, I really should have said die hard apple fans. I realise now that fanboys could be construed as inflammatory which wasn't my intention. But what i was getting at is you really do have to be a fan of the Apple brand/eco system to pay £240 more for an iPhone 5 than a Nexus 4, surely?

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

http://www.gizmodigit.com/wp-content...Comparison.jpg
http://www.techmynd.com/wp-content/u...ab-vs-ipad.jpg

Rehashing old (and wrong) arguments? Not just Apple's that's getting desperate

[Stiggles]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Apple was far from a one man band. The man responsible for all the designs of Apple's most successful products Jony Ive is still there and has a bigger role than ever now. I'm not aware that the "new ipad" product name had any impact on sales. It was a very successful tablet.

It was, especially considering its never changed since its debut!! But then im willing to bet a huge amount were upgrades.

As for suing people.. well when you consider this:

http://www.gizmodigit.com/wp-content...Comparison.jpg
http://www.techmynd.com/wp-content/u...ab-vs-ipad.jpg

You can see why they were a little miffed. Don't under estimate how much Samsung profited from the above tactic. They got their foot in the door of a very competitive and lucrative market by blatantly ripping off the competition at a lower price point. Microsoft on the other hand, who did their own thing and tried to be unique are struggling with their tablet offering and phones. As are HTC. Samsung would be no where if it wasn't for Apple's design work and Android would be no where if it wasn't for the iOS interface.

The Samsung phone is in the app drawer, the iphone is on its home screen. A piss poor comparison since they look nothing alike normally. Sadly, fools rake it in.

The Samsung tab is also not on its home screen and has been deliberately made to look like the ipad with rows of icons. Its homescreen looks nothing as bland as an idevice.

I suggest before posting pictures, you actually bother to look at them both yourself and not lap up the apple nonsense.

And judging from the recently announced Samsung gaming pad:

http://swaggnews.com/wp-content/uplo..._640screen.jpg

It appears Samsung's "innovation" continues at pace.

Maybe one day they'll release a product that doesn't look like something another company has been successful with. But I won't hold my breath.

Sorry, what does that pad look like unless im missing something?

I guess when apple finally innovate themselves and dont rip the iphone name, the ipad name, the iphone design, grid of icons, lock screen etc then we may finally see something decent from them. I wont hold my breath either however.

Samsung have copied people, everyone does it. Apple are notorious for it. But don't you think its odd Samsung have come out on top here? Is it people are realising apple aren't as good as they previously thought and for the money you can get much much more?

As for the apple page, its safe to say they are terrified now. Apple have been losing market share to Samsung rapidly and with the new S4 and other top end phones cheaper and many times better than the iphone, i think apple have had it unless they pull something out the hat which for the last 4 years, they haven't. Its sad, but they dont seem to want to innovate.

[The Sack]

I think that page has summed up why i am not an apple fan, although for balance the overpriced tat Samsung produce isn't my favourite either.

[swordman]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Thankfully for Apple they don't just rely on a phone. They sell lots more. They're still the market leader when it comes to portable music devices. They're arguably still the market leader when it comes to laptops. Yes android has eaten into the success of the iphone but that was never going to last. But they're still ticking over very nicely and they are far from turning into a company only "fan boys" are loyal to.

Apple business is about the iPhone they generate a huge proportion of their profits from it and is the single biggest factor in their current status. A failing iPhone would simply be catastrophic for Apple and unthinkable.

I no idea where you get the market leading nonsense from.. When have apple been market leaders in laptops? Much of apple and is sales has always been about branding and image unlike any other company in history.

[Hugh_]

Originally Posted by swordman

Much of apple and is sales has always been about branding and image unlike any other company in history.

So no other company survives due to its brand and image? , you're a special one you ain't ya.

Levi's, Nike, CK, Ralph Lauren, Ferrari, SuperDry, I could go on but those are all brands that are PURELY brand image. I spent £120 on Polo Shirt, I could get one from Primark for probably £3, its all about image.

Why do I pay £80 for my Jeans when I could get a pair from ASDA for £8? Brand and Image.

But I must admitt when Samsung advertised the Galazy range as "Designed for Humans" they really scraped the barrel clean. When the only good point thing about your product is its usable by humans you know you're struggling.

Fortunately, Apple has a strong brand, a great image and superb product.

[paulbrock]

Originally Posted by Hugh_

When the only good point thing about your product is its usable you know you're struggling.

"it just works"

[Hugh_]

Originally Posted by paulbrock

"it just works"

Designed for humans