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Old 20-03-2013, 02:22
jabbamk1
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Downloading torrents is legal correct.

But is downloading torrents of certain files illegal.
For example, if i download a torrent of a tv show episode, is it illegal? If i have no intention of sharing/making a copy of the download, is it illegal? Obviously if i was the uploader of the tv show then it'd be illegal but what if i was the downloader?

If that is illegal, then what is the difference between recording a tv show using my vcr at time of broadcast and downloading the torrent of the tv show for personal/private use.

Same question for software/music/movies, is it illegal?

What if you don't seed the torrent? Is it illegal?

What if you download from a site like e.g megaupload (yeh i know it's dead) Is that illegal? because there is no sharing involved and it's just a direct download.

If you're going to post in this thread then PLEASE POST EVIDENCE. No "i Think" answers please. I want hard copy evidence as to what is illegal and what isn't.
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Old 20-03-2013, 02:51
mred2000
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Use of torrents is legal. They have many legal uses, one example being the distribution of Linux builds.

There's a train of thought that says that it's the uploading that is illegal and downloading is fine. I think that uploaders do seem to get treated more harshly but downloading still infringes on the copyright holders rights.
From doing a bit of Googling it seems punishment can vary depending on whether you download for your own use or download to distribute. If you're not distributing you can still get a rollocking - even folk on DS have had warning letters from ISPs.

Doesn't matter whether you're seeding a torrent or not. You're still downloading copyright protected material and infringing on the copyright holders rights.

I 'think' this covers recording at home on whatever media but could be wrong: http://www.ehow.com/list_7391290_leg...-programs.html
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Old 20-03-2013, 03:59
c4rv
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Uploading or download of copyrighted material without the owners consent is illegal. End of.

However, so far the focus on P2P has been on those uploading.

http://www.copyrightaware.co.uk/lear...inic/legal.asp

File-sharing software and sites are technically legal to use, although the majority of file-sharing that happens on these sites is illegal. Using file-sharing sites to upload copyright protected media (which includes films, music, videos, images and software) without the copyright holder's consent is illegal. Buying a DVD of a film or TV programme does not give ownership of the copyright for that material. It allows you to watch, but not to distribute online. Downloading rights-protected material from these sites without rights-owners permission is illegal because this too breaches copyright protection. Internet investigators patrol these sites and monitor IP addresses that are uploading and downloading illegal content.
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:38
TheBigM
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And, to be clear, with torrents you are uploading whilst you are downloading. Seeding is just continuation of uploading after download has finished.

Either way, you are depriving the copyright holder of revenue which is rightfully theirs.

With regards to VCRs, the law (I think through case law not statute) specifically allows for VCRs and similar devices to be specifically for time-shifting purposes. It does not allow for subsequent copies of videos to be made and shared with other people - that would also be an infringement of copyright.
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:50
flagpole
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Downloading torrents is legal correct.

But is downloading torrents of certain files illegal.
For example, if i download a torrent of a tv show episode, is it illegal? If i have no intention of sharing/making a copy of the download, is it illegal? Obviously if i was the uploader of the tv show then it'd be illegal but what if i was the downloader?

If that is illegal, then what is the difference between recording a tv show using my vcr at time of broadcast and downloading the torrent of the tv show for personal/private use.

Same question for software/music/movies, is it illegal?

What if you don't seed the torrent? Is it illegal?

What if you download from a site like e.g megaupload (yeh i know it's dead) Is that illegal? because there is no sharing involved and it's just a direct download.
this is the thing. you are sharing, as others have said, whilst you are downloading...

If you're going to post in this thread then PLEASE POST EVIDENCE. No "i Think" answers please. I want hard copy evidence as to what is illegal and what isn't.
I/we know how torrents work. if you want to learn then look it up yourself.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:14
paulj48
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Uploading or download of copyrighted material without the owners consent is illegal. End of.
I always though that downloading copyrighted material is only a civil offense and not a criminal offense, therefore even if taken to a civil court and being found guilty there is absolutly no risk of being imprissoned
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:25
c4rv
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I always though that downloading copyrighted material is only a civil offense and not a criminal offense, therefore even if taken to a civil court and being found guilty there is absolutly no risk of being imprissoned
Not quite,

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room...%20Article.htm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4287669.stm

But in reality if you are the casual home downloader and not re-distributing for profit then its unlikely that the case will be pursued.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:38
paulj48
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Both those link are for disptributing copyrighted material, not downloading.

I think my statement still stands, if you 'download' copyrighted material you are not commiting criminal law and cannot be sent to prison.

I dont think there has ever been any civil case against anyone in the UK for downloading copyrighted material.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:42
c4rv
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Both those link are for disptributing copyrighted material, not downloading.

I think my statement still stands, if you 'download' copyrighted material you are not commiting criminal law and cannot be sent to prison.

I dont think there has ever been any civil case against anyone in the UK for downloading copyrighted material.
there have been plenty of threatening letters (again I believe for upload and downloading), don't know if any have actually ended up on court. I suspect most people pay up.
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Old 20-03-2013, 10:55
paulj48
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there have been plenty of threatening letters (again I believe for upload and downloading), don't know if any have actually ended up on court. I suspect most people pay up.
Yes I remeber the letters on this forum from some one called CS Law of something?

They where targeted at torrent users who where caught because they where uploading/seeding and they could easily threaten them with criminal law.

Maybe one day they'll go after the downloaders who use SSL newsgroups but for the time being they'll be at the bottom of the authoraties list.
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:07
jabbamk1
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Both those link are for disptributing copyrighted material, not downloading.

I think my statement still stands, if you 'download' copyrighted material you are not commiting criminal law and cannot be sent to prison.

I dont think there has ever been any civil case against anyone in the UK for downloading copyrighted material.
Do you have any hard copy evidence? Because i've seen both sides of the argument before and no one has ever bought forward proof for either side.

I'm aware that if i download with the intention to distribute then it's illegal. But what if it's a download of a file for personal use. Does that still come under copyright infringement?

Tbh it doesn't matter if no one has ever been taken to court for it but i just want to settle the argument as to whether it is illegal and action can be taken against you. Or if it;s fine.

Based on c4rv;s link it seems to mention downloading but not in enough detail. It's more about the uploading side there.

And what is the difference between VCR/PC recordings of material and downloading a copy online,
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:38
paulj48
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Do you have any hard copy evidence? Because i've seen both sides of the argument before and no one has ever bought forward proof for either side. ,
I dont have hard evidence but if downloading is covered by criminal law then why do the police not actively police it? It's left to various 'agencies' to investigate instead.
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Old 20-03-2013, 12:42
grps3
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downloading a torrent is no different to photocopying a book from the library

yes its morally wrong but hardly illegal



edit to add

imo if for personal viewing/use and as long as you dont seed , then you are doing no wrong

to justify further you could create a blog page to review the movies/albums/game you downloaded , that way you can claim fair use if you get busted as you reporting news, and only using it for educational purposes
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Old 20-03-2013, 13:10
Stig
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And what is the difference between VCR/PC recordings of material and downloading a copy online,
With regards to VCRs, the law (I think through case law not statute) specifically allows for VCRs and similar devices to be specifically for time-shifting purposes. It does not allow for subsequent copies of videos to be made and shared with other people - that would also be an infringement of copyright.
You seem to be ignoring the answers you are being given.
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Old 20-03-2013, 13:23
DeelyBopper
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If I buy a dvd from a car booty that was torrented, will i get arrested?
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:17
flagpole
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If I buy a dvd from a car booty that was torrented, will i get arrested?
What so you think?
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:21
mred2000
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You seem to be ignoring the answers you are being given.
I was just thinking that... Seems to be a lot of this going on, lately...
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:32
DeelyBopper
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What so you think?
Don't really know, I've thought about it over a biccy but can't work it out, s'why I asked the wiser folk of DS.

What do you think?
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:38
monkeydave68
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If I buy a dvd from a car booty that was torrented, will i get arrested?
you get 30 years for that
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:40
DeelyBopper
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you get 30 years for that
are you a lawer?
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:17
cnbcwatcher
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there have been plenty of threatening letters (again I believe for upload and downloading), don't know if any have actually ended up on court. I suspect most people pay up.
A lot of those threatening letters are probably sent by those who use a three strikes rule. That means if the filesharer is caught three times their internet will be cut off. I guess that's one reason wifi security is important.
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:23
DotNetWill
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Maybe one day they'll go after the downloaders who use SSL newsgroups but for the time being they'll be at the bottom of the authoraties list.
They're not, they're currently attacking the indexing sites. Lots of have gone down recently. Also, the number of fake files/takedowns at the big bin news services is massively on the increase. To the point I find it easier to find newer TV shows on torrents.
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:24
DotNetWill
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Sarcasm
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:28
d'@ve
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Downloading torrents is legal correct.

But is downloading torrents of certain files illegal.
For example, if i download a torrent of a tv show episode, is it illegal? If i have no intention of sharing/making a copy of the download, is it illegal? Obviously if i was the uploader of the tv show then it'd be illegal but what if i was the downloader?

If that is illegal, then what is the difference between recording a tv show using my vcr at time of broadcast and downloading the torrent of the tv show for personal/private use.

Same question for software/music/movies, is it illegal?

What if you don't seed the torrent? Is it illegal?

What if you download from a site like e.g megaupload (yeh i know it's dead) Is that illegal? because there is no sharing involved and it's just a direct download.

If you're going to post in this thread then PLEASE POST EVIDENCE. No "i Think" answers please. I want hard copy evidence as to what is illegal and what isn't.
Torrents per se aren't illegal to upload or download. However, for the kind of material you are asking about... and to keep it simple...

Yes, broadly it's all illegal unless you have the copyright owner or licensee's permission, or unless it's only timeshifting a TV programme on your recorder, which is a legally permitted act. There a few other permitted acts in paragraph 8 of the link below.

Evidence? Here you go: http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/co..._copyright_law

Sorted.
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:30
paulj48
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They're not, they're currently attacking the indexing sites. Lots of have gone down recently.
Well back to the old times of downloading all the headers in a particular group, with modern broadband speeds its not that much of a problem, its what people used to do before nzb files anyway.

There does seems to be a lot of password protected files these days though
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