You can buy yourself a reasonable PVR for not very much money these days, so there cannot be many people who can't afford one. For any who choose not to have one, that is their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of their decision: they are going to miss some programmes. I don't think that +1 channels have any real place on terrestrial television, and would much rather the bandwidth were reallocated to the benefit of the main channels. I cannot see that happening, though, because the rationale behind it is not about giving the consumer a better service by providing alternative start times as much as maximising advertising revenue by broadcasting each commercial twice.
Film4 + 1 to return to Freeview
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Originally Posted by shhftw:
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
Most? I was not aware of any figures.
Originally Posted by David Waine:
“You can buy yourself a reasonable PVR for not very much money these days, so there cannot be many people who can't afford one. For any who choose not to have one, that is their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of their decision: they are going to miss some programmes. I don't think that +1 channels have any real place on terrestrial television, and would much rather the bandwidth were reallocated to the benefit of the main channels. I cannot see that happening, though, because the rationale behind it is not about giving the consumer a better service by providing alternative start times as much as maximising advertising revenue by broadcasting each commercial twice.”
“You can buy yourself a reasonable PVR for not very much money these days, so there cannot be many people who can't afford one. For any who choose not to have one, that is their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of their decision: they are going to miss some programmes. I don't think that +1 channels have any real place on terrestrial television, and would much rather the bandwidth were reallocated to the benefit of the main channels. I cannot see that happening, though, because the rationale behind it is not about giving the consumer a better service by providing alternative start times as much as maximising advertising revenue by broadcasting each commercial twice.”
Very true.
Originally Posted by shhftw:
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
I don't think so. Not for a long time.
Originally Posted by shhftw:
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
“Most Freeview PVRs are single tuner.”
I'm sure that is not true - I have never had a single-tuner Freeview PVR.
Edit: sorry, missed post above as didn't go to second page.
Originally Posted by tompayne:
“I am afraid I do not have the figures, but I would assume that a majority of viewers do not have recording devices. I would also assume that of those that do have recording devices, most viewers don't use them regularly/efficiently.
To most viewers, I guess that they put on the TV and perhaps flick through the channels 1 - 5 (a few may go up to 10). They will see nothing of any interest is on, and leave the TV on BBC One regardless.
Channel 4 obviously see the financial benefit of having Film4 +1. They believe there will be a substantial number of viewers watching it. A quick look on Wikipedia shows that Film4 +1 received 0.2% of all TV viewers (in January 2013). That compares to*:
0.2% VIVA
0.3% 4seven
0.3% 4Music
0.4% Quest
0.4% Really
0.5% 5*
0.5% Challenge
With the addition of Freeview viewers, that figure will substantially increase.
*ratings from either November 2012 or January 2013.”
“I am afraid I do not have the figures, but I would assume that a majority of viewers do not have recording devices. I would also assume that of those that do have recording devices, most viewers don't use them regularly/efficiently.
To most viewers, I guess that they put on the TV and perhaps flick through the channels 1 - 5 (a few may go up to 10). They will see nothing of any interest is on, and leave the TV on BBC One regardless.
Channel 4 obviously see the financial benefit of having Film4 +1. They believe there will be a substantial number of viewers watching it. A quick look on Wikipedia shows that Film4 +1 received 0.2% of all TV viewers (in January 2013). That compares to*:
0.2% VIVA
0.3% 4seven
0.3% 4Music
0.4% Quest
0.4% Really
0.5% 5*
0.5% Challenge
With the addition of Freeview viewers, that figure will substantially increase.
*ratings from either November 2012 or January 2013.”
Indeed, tompayne. Film4+1 currently has an average daily reach of half a million viewers (see http://www.barb.co.uk/viewing/weekly...g-summary?_s=4) and that will almost certainly go up when Film4+1 appears on the Freeview EPG.
Film4 +1 would be a useful channel for freeview.
I remember when it used to be on freeview and I wanted to watch a film that had already started on Film4 so I went to the +1 channel to watch it from the beginning.
+1 Channels are also useful if you have a PVR for clashed recordings.
I remember when it used to be on freeview and I wanted to watch a film that had already started on Film4 so I went to the +1 channel to watch it from the beginning.
+1 Channels are also useful if you have a PVR for clashed recordings.
Originally Posted by Fairyprincess0:
“Have you never gotten home, put the Telly on, and seen a film on film 4 you fancy that's already started?
Surely that's a situation where film 4+1 would be handy?”
“Have you never gotten home, put the Telly on, and seen a film on film 4 you fancy that's already started?
Surely that's a situation where film 4+1 would be handy?”
exactly,Also not everyone plans their nights viewing with military precision,sometimes am watching something and find it boring so look and see what else is on, maybe the only thing i fancy has already started so nice to know i can watch it on +1.
Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.
Funny it took so long because the ninth stream on D3&4 has been available for years. Maybe the teletext needed to be completely removed and the Order has gone through Parliament unannounced in the TV media.
Plus Channel 4 have now got 5 streams (4 in Wales) and ITV only 4 streams on D3&4 and they lost one of those to Channel 5.
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.
Funny it took so long because the ninth stream on D3&4 has been available for years. Maybe the teletext needed to be completely removed and the Order has gone through Parliament unannounced in the TV media.
Plus Channel 4 have now got 5 streams (4 in Wales) and ITV only 4 streams on D3&4 and they lost one of those to Channel 5.
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.”
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.”
Do you know the hours and the LCN?
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).”
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).”
Not added to Emley Moor, Belmont or Bilsdale at this point. An interesting development.. one to watch.
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.
Funny it took so long because the ninth stream on D3&4 has been available for years. Maybe the teletext needed to be completely removed and the Order has gone through Parliament unannounced in the TV media.
Plus Channel 4 have now got 5 streams (4 in Wales) and ITV only 4 streams on D3&4 and they lost one of those to Channel 5.”
“Mux D3&4 London is carrying a ninth stream containing Film4 but with no PMT, SDT, NIT entries so the signal cannot be decoded. Null packets are down to 500kbps (previously they were ~2000kbps).
It has 192kbps audio, 720x576 resolution.
Looks like Film4 will move to D3&4 with the old slot on Arq B becoming Film4+1.
Funny it took so long because the ninth stream on D3&4 has been available for years. Maybe the teletext needed to be completely removed and the Order has gone through Parliament unannounced in the TV media.
Plus Channel 4 have now got 5 streams (4 in Wales) and ITV only 4 streams on D3&4 and they lost one of those to Channel 5.”
ooooh 720x576 resolution!
Not sorry that itv have less slots on D3&4 - they do own another multiplex!!
As I've just tweeted to Ray, it's also not showing in the Midlands.
All 9 video services on D3&4 London are now 720x576 resolution. Before this change some were 704x576 and some were 544x576.
Originally Posted by tomee:
“Do you know the hours and the LCN?”
“Do you know the hours and the LCN?”
At a guess, it is being tested on Crystal Palace initially, prior to a national roll-out. The LCN would be in the NIT, so that information won't be available until the NIT entry is added.
Originally Posted by jj20x:
“At a guess, it is being tested on Crystal Palace initially prior to a national roll-out. The LCN would be in the NIT, so that information won't be available until the NIT entry is added.”
“At a guess, it is being tested on Crystal Palace initially prior to a national roll-out. The LCN would be in the NIT, so that information won't be available until the NIT entry is added.”
Thank you.
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“All 9 video services on D3&4 London are now 720x576 resolution. Before this change some were 704x576 and some were 544x576.”
“All 9 video services on D3&4 London are now 720x576 resolution. Before this change some were 704x576 and some were 544x576.”
Should please S4C when it's rolled out nationally. They have been lobbying for full resolution broadcasts on Freeview...
All major BBC networks coming soon in HD, nine streams on D3&4, all in 720x576 resolution (Mickey_T will be delighted) and the BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all support HD channel swaps in the future: what a good week it's been for the Freeview service.
the D 3 & 4 MUX could carry ITV, ITV 2, CITV, C4, E4, More4, 4Severn, Film 4 and C5, this would help people on freeview lite, in fact if they did have reduced quallity (which wouldnt be good) they could get ITV 3 and maybe ITV 4 in, but they wouldnt do this of course!
I do think its odd though that CITV isnt on the PSB MUX I would have thought it was a PSB requirement to make their PSB kids channel availible everywhere?
I do think its odd though that CITV isnt on the PSB MUX I would have thought it was a PSB requirement to make their PSB kids channel availible everywhere?
Originally Posted by a516:
“Should please S4C when it's rolled out nationally. They have been lobbying for full resolution broadcasts on Freeview...
All major BBC networks coming soon in HD, nine streams on D3&4, all in 720x576 resolution (Mickey_T will be delighted) and the BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all support HD channel swaps in the future: what a good week it's been for the Freeview service.”
“Should please S4C when it's rolled out nationally. They have been lobbying for full resolution broadcasts on Freeview...
All major BBC networks coming soon in HD, nine streams on D3&4, all in 720x576 resolution (Mickey_T will be delighted) and the BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all support HD channel swaps in the future: what a good week it's been for the Freeview service.”
I totally agree! the HD-SD channel swap issue though with BBC C4 and C5 supporting it and other companies not, I wonder if we will end up with just the PSB HD channels being swapped?
oh and as has been discussed in other threads 720*576 isnt always better, 704*576 is better on a HDTV over HDMI when upscaled to 1080i, else the 16 pixel black padding at each side is clearly visable, which spoils the aspect ratio and the look of the broadcast!
Originally Posted by a516:
“Should please S4C when it's rolled out nationally. They have been lobbying for full resolution broadcasts on Freeview...
All major BBC networks coming soon in HD, nine streams on D3&4, all in 720x576 resolution (Mickey_T will be delighted) and the BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all support HD channel swaps in the future: what a good week it's been for the Freeview service.”
“Should please S4C when it's rolled out nationally. They have been lobbying for full resolution broadcasts on Freeview...
All major BBC networks coming soon in HD, nine streams on D3&4, all in 720x576 resolution (Mickey_T will be delighted) and the BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all support HD channel swaps in the future: what a good week it's been for the Freeview service.”
Channel 5 supporting HD swaps would carry more weight if they actually had their HD channel on the platform.
A good week indeed, it will be interesting to see if Channel 4 use the slot for Film Four in Wales, or if they take the opportunity to improve availability of E4.
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode:
“All 9 video services on D3&4 London are now 720x576 resolution. Before this change some were 704x576 and some were 544x576.”
“All 9 video services on D3&4 London are now 720x576 resolution. Before this change some were 704x576 and some were 544x576.”
That should be the minimum standard really! But nice to have some continuity for once hope it stays this way!
Originally Posted by jj20x:
“Channel 5 supporting HD swaps would carry more weight if they actually had their HD channel on the platform.
A good week indeed, it will be interesting to see if Channel 4 use the slot for Film Four in Wales, or if they take the opportunity to improve availability of E4 in Wales.”
“Channel 5 supporting HD swaps would carry more weight if they actually had their HD channel on the platform.
A good week indeed, it will be interesting to see if Channel 4 use the slot for Film Four in Wales, or if they take the opportunity to improve availability of E4 in Wales.”
I have read that C5 are thing about reappying for C5HD on freeview again (using some of the new space though), (I think I read it on a516's website), so if the do go on freeview then that would make sense. oh and Im fairly sure I read they are wanting to reserve LCN 105 on freeview too!
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“I have read that C5 are thing about reappying for C5HD on freeview again (using some of the new space though), (I think I read it on a516's website), so if the do go on freeview then that would make sense. oh and Im fairly sure I read they are wanting to reserve LCN 105 on freeview too!”
“I have read that C5 are thing about reappying for C5HD on freeview again (using some of the new space though), (I think I read it on a516's website), so if the do go on freeview then that would make sense. oh and Im fairly sure I read they are wanting to reserve LCN 105 on freeview too!”
Sure, but they have being saying that for years. They want 105 reserved for when they eventually make the move, without committing to a date. They've had many opportunities to do that already, if LCN 105 is allocated on a first come first served basis, they will miss out.
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“I have read that C5 are thing about reappying for C5HD on freeview again (using some of the new space though), (I think I read it on a516's website), so if the do go on freeview then that would make sense. oh and Im fairly sure I read they are wanting to reserve LCN 105 on freeview too!”
“I have read that C5 are thing about reappying for C5HD on freeview again (using some of the new space though), (I think I read it on a516's website), so if the do go on freeview then that would make sense. oh and Im fairly sure I read they are wanting to reserve LCN 105 on freeview too!”
C5 say "in the next few years"*, but as BBC Three/CBBC has the fifth HD slot it will have to be on one of the new muxes, where I daresay Film 4 HD is a good candidate to get a slot.
(*Amusing that C5 also imply that they don't like the HD channels on 101-104 because it diverts people away from their channels, but that's another story.)
Originally Posted by a516:
“C5 say "in the next few years"*, but as BBC Three/CBBC has the fifth HD slot it will have to be on one of the new muxes, where I daresay Film 4 HD is a good candidate to get a slot.
(*Amusing that C5 also imply that they don't like the HD channels on 101-104 because it diverts people away from their channels, but that's another story.)”
“C5 say "in the next few years"*, but as BBC Three/CBBC has the fifth HD slot it will have to be on one of the new muxes, where I daresay Film 4 HD is a good candidate to get a slot.
(*Amusing that C5 also imply that they don't like the HD channels on 101-104 because it diverts people away from their channels, but that's another story.)”
Ah maybe thats why they support the channel swapp! as people will use 1-4 for HD if they have it and SD if they dont, meaning even if C5 stay SD for now on freeview, they will be next to the channels that everyone is using! The channel swap will kinda make the HD section redundent though, especially when BBC 1 & 2 HD, ITV HD and C4 HD become properly regonalised, as no channels will exist there! As on SD only equipment they are blank anyway! I think its a good thing having HD intergrated though, especially as one day most 'good' channels (ones worth watching) will be HD on all platforms and OFCom have left too little space for the HD section anyways, as it will only take another 4 channels time sharing with all the slots full on the new MUXs and they will need to go to 121!
Originally Posted by lotrjw:
“I do think its odd though that CITV isnt on the PSB MUX I would have thought it was a PSB requirement to make their PSB kids channel availible everywhere?”
“I do think its odd though that CITV isnt on the PSB MUX I would have thought it was a PSB requirement to make their PSB kids channel availible everywhere?”
The PSB obligations are with the ITV Network. ITV Digital Channels Ltd operates the other channels (ITV 2/3/4 & CITV) commercially.
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