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Back to Camelot, now with added Mackenzie Crook, Merlin S2 discussion, (6/4/2013)


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Old 24-03-2013, 12:03
Corabal
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I thought as the other thread was entitled series one I'd have a go at this one. This series had a boom in special guest stars, and it featured the first series's two parter, which was one of the weaker stories of the whole series, actually unnecessarily needing a two parter, there would be some who agree, I also wonder if this was what one of the creators were talking about when they said there were some episodes they regret, This series also saw the introduction of ne of the main villainesses in Morgause, anyway, here we go.

"The Curse of Cornelius Sigan"
Series 2 opener, Guest starring Mackenzie Crook

"The Once and Future Queen"
Guest starring Adrian Lester

"The Nightmare Begins"
Return of Mordred, Guest starring Asa Butterfield

"Lancelot and Guinevere"
Return of Lancelot, Guest starring Santiago Cabrera and James Cosmo

"Beauty and the Beast (Part 1/2)"
Guest starring Sarah Parish and Adam Godley

"The Witchfinder"
Guest starring Charles Dance

"The Sins of the Father"
Introduction of Morgause, Guest starring Emilia Fox

"The Lady of the Lake"
Guest starring Laura Donnelly

"Sweet Dreams"
Guest starring David Schofield, Georgia Moffett, Mark Lewis Jones and Kevin Eldon

"The Witch's Quickening"
Guest starring Joseph Mawle

"The Fires of Idirsholas"
The swift return of Morgause, Guest starring Emilia Fox

"The Last Dragonlord"
Guest starring John Lynch
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Old 24-03-2013, 18:45
MrsGeneHunt
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Brilliant! Thanks Corabal.

Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES the 'Arthur, your stepmother-to-be is a troll' episodes?
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Old 24-03-2013, 20:18
Corabal
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You're welcome. And the episode was missing something which resulted in it being really poor, I thought Sarah Parish acted quite well, but perhaps she overacted just a tad, thinking about it. Also with Kevin Eldon's role, I didn't think his episode was that far back, I thought it was S3 at least, shows how quickly time passes.
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Old 25-03-2013, 03:29
myselfandi
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My son laughed like a hyena while watching the Troll episodes. Fart jokes are never not funny to him.

As for me, the best guest star in S2 was easily Charles Dance as Aredian. His Tywin on Game of Thrones has the same chilling quality.
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Old 25-03-2013, 10:58
Avi8
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Brilliant! Thanks Corabal.

Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES the 'Arthur, your stepmother-to-be is a troll' episodes?
Nope. Not surprisingly, given how you and I seem to take everything in Merlin the same way, I liked it too.

I do find the bit where everyone else knows she is a troll but Uther is enchanted and can't see it rather embarrassing. It just goes too far for me, with the troll sitting there farting in the council meetings and rubbing horse dung on her breasts, but even that section has some great comedy moments eg Gaius and Leon trying to tell Uther he has married a troll 'in case it has passed you by' - lol, I can't hear or use those words without smiling now.

Also, I love love LOVE the bits where Uther disinherits Arthur and Arthur gives him the puppy dog eyes, and then is so dispirited with Gwen, and later Gaius and Merlin. Oh and the 'brink of death' scene - that is comedy genius from all three of them as Gaius and Merlin persuade Arthur to take the potion. In fact, there are loads of fantastic scenes in these 2 episodes and Sarah Parish does a great job. I just hide my face when we get to the bit where she is openly parading around the castle as a troll.
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Old 25-03-2013, 11:08
Avi8
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Looking at those episodes, it makes me aware that, although I love S1, imo the game was really upped in S2. I know the general public did not agree with me as the viewing figures went down, but all I can see are loads of classic episodes with the right mix of drama and comedy.

For me, the bum episode in S2 is ep 10. I looked forward to it hugely after I saw the trailer at the end of ep 9, but I found it, pretty much from beginning to end, a cringeing disaster. I still think of Georgia Moffett as a scheming bitch (and married to my gorgeous David Tennant - sob!) even though she is probably a lovely person; I hated the fool they made out of the noble Arthur; and Trickler fawning over everyone made me want to vomit. It was like the very worst 1970s tv farce. Even the Gwen/Arthur kiss failed to live up to the romance of their first kiss.
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Old 25-03-2013, 12:43
MikeAP001
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You're welcome. And the episode was missing something which resulted in it being really poor, I thought Sarah Parish acted quite well, but perhaps she overacted just a tad, thinking about it. Also with Kevin Eldon's role, I didn't think his episode was that far back, I thought it was S3 at least, shows how quickly time passes.
I hate to say this especially about MERLIN S2 but the writing for the Troll episode was lacking and the actors did a fine job with the material they were given. The episode could still have had it's moments with fewer dung and rot references.

But, this episode should have moved the story line along or given some back story to MERLIN's magic but failed because there was no "pay off" pitch later in the series. For instance, the audience is told that Trolls and Dragons have been allies in the past but I didn't see any evidence of that in this episode or future ones. Likewise, the story is that there are pillagers on the loose but there's no hint of who or what they are. It might have been the Saxons but it could be anyone else and so, it would have been better if the later episodes tied things up.
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Old 25-03-2013, 19:42
MrsGeneHunt
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For me, the bum episode in S2 is ep 10. I looked forward to it hugely after I saw the trailer at the end of ep 9, but I found it, pretty much from beginning to end, a cringeing disaster. I still think of Georgia Moffett as a scheming bitch (and married to my gorgeous David Tennant - sob!) even though she is probably a lovely person; I hated the fool they made out of the noble Arthur; and Trickler fawning over everyone made me want to vomit. It was like the very worst 1970s tv farce. Even the Gwen/Arthur kiss failed to live up to the romance of their first kiss.
I agree. I hate the Trickler character! And, while I really like the Arthur/Gwen kiss at the end of ep2, this one always seems really awkward to me. (Besides, as Arthur's true love is Merlin, he really should be kissing him, IMO! This scene is duplicated deliciously in The Student Prince - it's one of my favourite chapters!)
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:36
Avi8
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I agree. I hate the Trickler character! And, while I really like the Arthur/Gwen kiss at the end of ep2, this one always seems really awkward to me. (Besides, as Arthur's true love is Merlin, he really should be kissing him, IMO! This scene is duplicated deliciously in The Student Prince - it's one of my favourite chapters!)
We should meet up MrsGH. I feel we are twins separated at birth.
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:41
Natarhi
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Looking at those episodes, it makes me aware that, although I love S1, imo the game was really upped in S2. I know the general public did not agree with me as the viewing figures went down, but all I can see are loads of classic episodes with the right mix of drama and comedy.

For me, the bum episode in S2 is ep 10. I looked forward to it hugely after I saw the trailer at the end of ep 9, but I found it, pretty much from beginning to end, a cringeing disaster. I still think of Georgia Moffett as a scheming bitch (and married to my gorgeous David Tennant - sob!) even though she is probably a lovely person; I hated the fool they made out of the noble Arthur; and Trickler fawning over everyone made me want to vomit. It was like the very worst 1970s tv farce. Even the Gwen/Arthur kiss failed to live up to the romance of their first kiss.
I think series 2 is my favourite series overall as well.

I do like episode 10, I'd probably rank it somewhere in the middle. I find lovesick Arthur quite funny, the "Destiny and chicken" line always makes me laugh. As well as the "Father" Georgia does when Olaf calls her an innocent girl.

And I can't believe you think the kiss is not romantic! That's the one where he dips her! *swoon*

I hate to say this especially about MERLIN S2 but the writing for the Troll episode was lacking and the actors did a fine job with the material they were given. The episode could still have had it's moments with fewer dung and rot references.

But, this episode should have moved the story line along or given some back story to MERLIN's magic but failed because there was no "pay off" pitch later in the series. For instance, the audience is told that Trolls and Dragons have been allies in the past but I didn't see any evidence of that in this episode or future ones. Likewise, the story is that there are pillagers on the loose but there's no hint of who or what they are. It might have been the Saxons but it could be anyone else and so, it would have been better if the later episodes tied things up.
I think the problem with the troll story was that it really didn't need to be a two-parter. If they'd just condensed it into one episode it probably would have been fine.

Re the BIB-I don't remember either of those points! I must not have been paying attention.
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:45
Natarhi
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I agree. I hate the Trickler character! And, while I really like the Arthur/Gwen kiss at the end of ep2, this one always seems really awkward to me. (Besides, as Arthur's true love is Merlin, he really should be kissing him, IMO! This scene is duplicated deliciously in The Student Prince - it's one of my favourite chapters!)
I think the fact that Gwen is the one with the power to break the spell kind of proves incontestably that she is Arthur's true love actually.
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:47
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I think the fact that Gwen is the one with the power to break the spell kind of proves incontestably that she is Arthur's true love actually.
Exactly That is one of my favourite moments
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:49
Avi8
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I do like episode 10, I'd probably rank it somewhere in the middle. I find lovesick Arthur quite funny, the "Destiny and chicken" line always makes me laugh. As well as the "Father" Georgia does when Olaf calls her an innocent girl.
Yes, I laugh at bits too. I like the bit where Vivian looks at herself in the mirror and sticks her bust out, things like that. Oh and Arthur going to Gwen's house at the end in that white shirt of his - phwoar! But overall, it is my least favourite (and never re-watched) S2 episode.

And I can't believe you think the kiss is not romantic! That's the one where he dips her! *swoon*
And then makes an awful comedy face as he is released from the enchantment and can suddenly feel the pain of his broken ribs.
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:51
star89
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Yes, I laugh at bits too. I like the bit where Vivian looks at herself in the mirror and sticks her bust out, things like that. Oh and Arthur going to Gwen's house at the end in that white shirt of his - phwoar! But overall, it is my least favourite (and never re-watched) S2 episode.
A Merthur fan not liking the Sweet Dreams episode


I do like Arthur in the white shirt too

Have you listened to the commentary for that episode? Its very funny
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Old 25-03-2013, 20:57
Cadiva
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Brilliant! Thanks Corabal.

Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES the 'Arthur, your stepmother-to-be is a troll' episodes?
Nope, they're among my favourite episodes as well and I think Sarah Parish is an amazingly good comedic actress.

As for S2 as a whole, while I think it has some great individual episodes, that pretty much was the problem with it - it was basically a repeat of S1's "episode of the week" lack of continuous story narrative - and I think the general audience got fed up of nothing much really changing. That was also the major criticism of the critics themselves, that Merlin as a TV show wasn't really going anywhere in the long term relating to the mythology of Arthur, it was more a case of a lot of "Boy's Own" stuff adventures.

S2 also has the most number of Game of Thrones actors making an appearance in Merlin during one season
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:09
Natarhi
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And then makes an awful comedy face as he is released from the enchantment and can suddenly feel the pain of his broken ribs.
I don't care about what his face does after, I am still too busy swooning from him dipping her at that point.
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:20
Avi8
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A Merthur fan not liking the Sweet Dreams episode
Oh am I that obvious? I hadn't really made the connection between being a Merthur fan and this being an episode where Arthur woos a woman. I like ep2 where he woos Gwen, and ep 4 also. So I don't think it is because Arthur is wooing a woman and not Merlin that I don't like it. I just don't like the guest characters and I don't like seeing Arthur making a fool of himself.


Have you listened to the commentary for that episode? Its very funny
I must have listened to it once but I don't remember anything about it. Perhaps I should listen to it during the rewatch, rather than listening to the awful storyline.

EDIT: oh I think I do remember one bit of the commentary. Isn't this the episode where Bradley says his mother was on set for one of his wooing scenes and he was embarrassed to have her around?
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:32
star89
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Oh am I that obvious? I hadn't really made the connection between being a Merthur fan and this being an episode where Arthur woos a woman. I like ep2 where he woos Gwen, and ep 4 also. So I don't think it is because Arthur is wooing a woman and not Merlin that I don't like it. I just don't like the guest characters and I don't like seeing Arthur making a fool of himself.

I actually agree with you in that its a very silly 'childish' episode but compared to the doom and gloom of series 5 I'd take the sillyness anyday
I prefer the more serious 3x06 (is it that one??) with Princess Elena. That bit where Gwen goes to Arthur and he asks her what she'l do if he marries her.. ''I will watch you grow into the king that Camelot deserves''

I must have listened to it once but I don't remember anything about it. Perhaps I should listen to it during the rewatch, rather than listening to the awful storyline.

EDIT: oh I think I do remember one bit of the commentary. Isn't this the episode where Bradley says his mother was on set for one of his wooing scenes and he was embarrassed to have her around?
Yes I think thats the one with the bit about his mum.

It's the bit where Bradley accidently calls Angel fat but thats not what he meant (about the bed in Gwen's cottage being rubbish) its very funny
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:38
Keren-Happuch
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Am I the only one who absolutely LOVES the 'Arthur, your stepmother-to-be is a troll' episodes?
I loved them too - well I think I must have done, because they're the only episodes I can really remember well from S2. I can remember another silly episode very well, the one where Gaius is possessed by a goblin and goes around burping. Was that S3? Why is it I only seem to remember the silly ones clearly?

I think the fact that Gwen is the one with the power to break the spell kind of proves incontestably that she is Arthur's true love actually.
She was his heterosexual true love yes, which is what the spell is referring to. Oh god, this isn't the start of Arwen being shoved down our throats is it, the world's most boring romance ever. No to be fair, I don't remember much of this wooing and dipping business so I shall reserve judgement until I've seen the episodes again.
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:45
Avi8
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Oh god, this isn't the start of Arwen being shoved down our throats is it, the world's most boring romance ever. No to be fair, I don't remember much of this wooing and dipping business so I shall reserve judgement until I've seen the episodes again.
Look, I am no Arwen fan, as I know you are aware, but I have to say, if this is the start of it (I actually think it starts in S1) then it is a pretty decent start. Ep 2 has Gwen at her absolute finest imo - putting Arthur in his place on several occasions - and Ep 4 shows some really poignant moments between the 2 of them.

It is only after that that it gets boring imo.
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:49
Natarhi
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I just don't like the guest characters and I don't like seeing Arthur making a fool of himself.
I think it is nicer/funnier (for want of a better word) making a fool of himself than when Merlin turns him into a simpleton at the end of series 4 though. I didn't like that time. At least this time Arthur basically still has his free will.
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:55
Natarhi
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I loved them too - well I think I must have done, because they're the only episodes I can really remember well from S2. I can remember another silly episode very well, the one where Gaius is possessed by a goblin and goes around burping. Was that S3? Why is it I only seem to remember the silly ones clearly?
I don't know. It probably says something about your mind. Perhaps you are very immature?

She was his heterosexual true love yes, which is what the spell is referring to. Oh god, this isn't the start of Arwen being shoved down our throats is it, the world's most boring romance ever. No to be fair, I don't remember much of this wooing and dipping business so I shall reserve judgement until I've seen the episodes again.
I don't think a magic spell would care about sexual orientation. A true love is a true love is a true love. You just don't want to face facts.

And yes S2 is the start of the more obvious Arwen. But I think it was lovely back then. (S2 shall win you round to Arwen, just as S1 won you round to Morgana. )
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Old 25-03-2013, 21:58
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I don't know. It probably says something about your mind. Perhaps you are very immature?

I don't think a magic spell would care about sexual orientation. A true love is a true love is a true love. You just don't want to face facts.

And yes S2 is the start of the more obvious Arwen. But I think it was lovely back then. (S2 shall win you round to Arwen, just as S1 won you round to Morgana. )
Keren if you still don't like Arwen by the end of series 2 then I won't hold it against you.. aslong as you want to help me wring Merlin's neck in 2x03
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Old 25-03-2013, 22:02
Avi8
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I think it is nicer/funnier (for want of a better word) making a fool of himself than when Merlin turns him into a simpleton at the end of series 4 though. I didn't like that time. At least this time Arthur basically still has his free will.
EH? How do you work that out? Is it his will to be in love with Lady Vivian? At the beginning of the episode he couldn't stand her, and at the end of the episode he couldn't wait to see the back of her. In the middle, he was intent on marrying her to the point of nearly bringing war to Camelot because Trickler enchanted him into falling in love with her. He was hardly exercising his free will!

When Merlin made a simpleton of him, he didn't make him do anything stupid (apart from put on some too small clothes, but even then they were meant to be a disguise to save him from being recognised as the king).
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Old 25-03-2013, 22:05
Keren-Happuch
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Look, I am no Arwen fan, as I know you are aware, but I have to say, if this is the start of it (I actually think it starts in S1) then it is a pretty decent start. Ep 2 has Gwen at her absolute finest imo - putting Arthur in his place on several occasions - and Ep 4 shows some really poignant moments between the 2 of them.

It is only after that that it gets boring imo.
Well I haven't seen either of those episodes so that's probably why I just find it boring.

I think it is nicer/funnier (for want of a better word) making a fool of himself than when Merlin turns him into a simpleton at the end of series 4 though. I didn't like that time. At least this time Arthur basically still has his free will.
Oh I thought Arthur as a simpleton was really funny. Maybe I am immature.

I don't think a magic spell would care about sexual orientation. A true love is a true love is a true love. You just don't want to face facts.

And yes S2 is the start of the more obvious Arwen. But I think it was lovely back then. (S2 shall win you round to Arwen, just as S1 won you round to Morgana. )
No it's because the BBC didn't want to show two men kissing at 7pm or whatever time it went out. That's the only reason why.

S1 only won me round to Morgana right at the end. And that's mainly because she planned to kill Uther and the numerous cleavage shots. I can't see myself ever becoming an Arwen convert, but never say never.

Keren if you still don't like Arwen by the end of series 2 then I won't hold it against you.. aslong as you want to help me wring Merlin's neck in 2x03
I already want to repeatedly punch Merlin for saving Uther and Gaius so I'm sure I will be joining you.
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