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Back to Camelot, now with added Mackenzie Crook, Merlin S2 discussion, (6/4/2013)


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Old 26-03-2013, 22:07
Keren-Happuch
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*swoons at being addressed such*

Why thank you Sir Stu, it means a great deal to know I have the unwavering support of your strong sword behind me.

Not telling Arthur the truth about his birth, perhaps not in that episode but certainly after Uther was dead, was the second most stupid decision Merlin ever made. (The first of course being The Line That Shall Nevermore Be Uttered Here from The Episode So Awful We Won't Speak Of It).
And the third most stupid decision was not telling Arthur he had magic before he was dying (although really, that's the producers' fault). It just doesn't make sense that Merlin didn't think to mention it in the 3 years of peace, (I don't believe for one second that Arthur would have executed him and Merlin should have known that) unless he'd been taking lessons in cowardice from Gaius.
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:10
star89
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Yay! Thank you!! (I've not had someone fetch something for me before, it's rather nice. )
Thats not true I fetch you loads of things.. chocolates.. handcuffs.. oils.. your clothes the next morning
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:12
Smint
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I'm afraid not, it's on methods of endocytosis during mitosis.
20 years ago I could have helped you with that (BSc Hons in Biomolecular Science) - did a whole term on cellular division. . . but I suspect it's moved on a bit since my day
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:17
Natarhi
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Thats not true I fetch you loads of things.. chocolates.. handcuffs.. oils.. your clothes the next morning
Yeah, but you fetch me those because you want me to have them...so I can use them with you...not because I've asked for them (well, I ask for my clothes in the morning ). It's not the same if you're doing it to benefit yourself.
Lowri is doing it out of the goodness of her heat, and so she can avoid working on her essay.
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:20
star89
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Yeah, but you fetch me those because you want me to have them...so I can use them with you...not because I've asked for them (well, I ask for my clothes in the morning ). It's not the same if you're doing it to benefit yourself.
Lowri is doing it out of the goodness of her heat, and so she can avoid working on her essay.
Yeah well the things I get you are way better than a drink

And I think what actually started it off was a sarcastic comment from Lowri
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Old 26-03-2013, 22:23
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Yeah well the things I get you are way better than a drink
A drink and a Knight nurse.
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Old 27-03-2013, 05:29
myselfandi
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I find series 4 (with the qualifier of episodes 1-10 if you like, doesn't make much difference to me) OK, but a bit bland and boring overall. When I look through the episode list there is not a single episode that really makes me want to watch it again, although parts of certain episodes were good. Then there are all the things that are wrong with series 4; The way they were rehashing the 'there's a traitor in Camelot and Merlin knows but Arthur doesn't' storyline (apparently that was the only overarching storyline they were capable of coming up with), the way they turned Gwen's character into something with all the personality and importance of a blow-up doll, the way they squandered all the knights (who had so much potential at the end of series 3) to such an extent that they basically became devoid of any individual personality as well, the entirety of 4.09. ... I'd be interested to hear why you think it's the best series though?
Obviously, I'm not myselfandi but I can say why I like S4 the best. For me, it is because in S4 you get the best of the relationship between Arthur and Merlin - and no I am not talking Merthur for once! In S1 and S2, both can come across as rather silly and immature at times, though their chemistry is electric almost from the start, but by S4 they have matured and their partnership is going great guns. The reason I haven't rewatched any of the mid-section of S5 since it was first broadcast (ie eps 4 - 10) is because the writers totally messed up the Arthur/Merlin relationship and, in doing so, utterly ruined the show for this viewer anyway. I grant you the relationship was well portrayed in eps 1-3 (which I like) and eps 11 - 13 (but those are too painful for other reasons!)

So anyway, S4 tops the list as my favourite series because of the M/A dynamics.
Don't agree with you at all. I prefer series 2 and 3
Series Four is my favourite because it's closest to the traditional mythology and then in order I prefer S3 then S5 and then S2 and last is poor old S1
My faves are S2, S1 then some of S3...then bits of S4...
All these people disagreeing with me? It's like living with a bunch of teenagers. Which I do, so I'm used to it.

I hated series 3 for multiple reasons, but predominate is that the fascinating Morgana of S2 became a 1D cartoon Snidely Whiplash. The Smirk Was Too Much. I also thought a lot of the acting was weak, including Colin Morgan's. Episode 3.08, The Fisher King was the absolute worst in terms of canon and Arthurian legend. Most of series 3 badly undercut Arthur but 3.08 was the worst. Episode 3.13 was not far behind. In my humble opinion, the saving grace was ASH in the final two episodes. Damn, he was good.

Series 4 had some of the best episodes of the entire show. The Wicked Day, 4.03; Servant of Two Masters, 4.06, His Father's Son, 4.05, Herald of a New Age, 4.10 and (I'm going to get so much hate here), Lancelot du Lac, 4.09. Good writing, good acting, and as Cadiva said, in sync with the Arthurian legends. Gwen was, imo, better written in series 4. The wicked!Gwen in series 5 went nowhere and was a waste of time. Nice bit of acting though, on the part of Angel Coulby.

Also Morgana regained a bit of depth in S4. She appeared conflicted upon hearing of Uther's death; in her vision of Camlann, she came across as remorseful; and in 4.09, she was predicted to bring back the ways of the Old Religion. Morgana was crazy and hence her unpredictability and spite, but she was not unreachable. I was sure that they were setting up for her act of atonement/redemption. Siiiiigh.

Speaking of missed cues from series 4, remember this wee bit from 4.04, Aithusa? http://belle-dame-sans-merci.tumblr....48127433#notes "The white dragon bodes well for Albion. For you, and Arthur, and for the land that you will build together."

is anyone else having problems accessing Bohemia's fanfic on the AO3 site
She pulled all her fics. Don't know why.

You don't need to worry about the finer points my good Sir because Star has it all covered

I'd send you my post (for 2x03 of all my Morgana defense I've been collecting) but it takes up 4 PM's as there is a word limit.. which I discovered sending it to Natarhi
Ahahaaa, looking forward to it. I think many people screwed up in that episode, with the exception of Gwen. But then, she had no agency. That was an episode I hated the first time, but later appreciated for showing Morgana's arc. It's too bad neither Gaius nor Merlin acknowledged their part in the whole mess.
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Old 27-03-2013, 08:11
Avi8
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All these people disagreeing with me? It's like living with a bunch of teenagers. Which I do, so I'm used to it.
Miss! Miss! I'm not disagreeing with you Miss! <creepy child at front of class>

Well anyway, not much....

I hated series 3 for multiple reasons, but predominate is that the fascinating Morgana of S2 became a 1D cartoon Snidely Whiplash. The Smirk Was Too Much. I also thought a lot of the acting was weak, including Colin Morgan's. Episode 3.08, The Fisher King was the absolute worst in terms of canon and Arthurian legend. Most of series 3 badly undercut Arthur but 3.08 was the worst. Episode 3.13 was not far behind. In my humble opinion, the saving grace was ASH in the final two episodes. Damn, he was good.
I don't agree that the acting was bad and especially not Colin Morgan's. All fangirl stuff aside, it was in S3 that I actually began to see what an amazingly powerful actor he is. And especially in the Fisher King episode. While I did not like a lot about that episode, the part of it that shines for me is the acting of Colin Morgan, especially the bit where he meets the Fisher King. His reverence and awe - wow. All portrayed with his eyes I hasten to add.

Agree about Morgana and her smirk. I really think it let the series down. Personally, I also didn't care for all the scenes she had with Morgause. I got sick of the 'sister' comments, but then I am not into sisterly stuff anyway. Morgause and Cenred were an interesting combination but there was not enough of them.

Series 4 had some of the best episodes of the entire show. The Wicked Day, 4.03; Servant of Two Masters, 4.06, His Father's Son, 4.05, Herald of a New Age, 4.10 and (I'm going to get so much hate here), Lancelot du Lac, 4.09. Good writing, good acting, and as Cadiva said, in sync with the Arthurian legends. Gwen was, imo, better written in series 4. The wicked!Gwen in series 5 went nowhere and was a waste of time. Nice bit of acting though, on the part of Angel Coulby.

Also Morgana regained a bit of depth in S4. She appeared conflicted upon hearing of Uther's death; in her vision of Camlann, she came across as remorseful; and in 4.09, she was predicted to bring back the ways of the Old Religion. Morgana was crazy and hence her unpredictability and spite, but she was not unreachable. I was sure that they were setting up for her act of atonement/redemption. Siiiiigh.
Agree with all of this. My only objection to the Lancelot du Lac episode is the enchanted ring part. I would have preferred it if Gwen had just been overwhelmed by the return of Lancelot and fallen for him for real. She was in love with him earlier, anyway, and I would have thought your feelings for someone you think was dead but turns out to be alive would be powerful enough to not need an enchanted ring. Arthur could still have exiled her, and perhaps she could have found redemption and reconciliation via Merlin's knowledge that Lancelot was a wraithe. Otherwise, (shhh whisper it here!) I thought the Lancelot du Lac episode was pretty good. Better than the Aithusa episode certainly, which brings me on to:

Speaking of missed cues from series 4, remember this wee bit from 4.04, Aithusa? http://belle-dame-sans-merci.tumblr....48127433#notes "The white dragon bodes well for Albion. For you, and Arthur, and for the land that you will build together."
Yes, I think we are all aware of that missed cue. Really, when the producers are looking back on the earlier series of Merlin, instead of feeling shame over the CGI, which I think most of us are generally pretty forgiving over, as we understand there was a limited budget, and - let's face it - a duff Avanc doesn't spoil the plot or characterisation too much, I really wish they would look back and acknowledge publically all the plot holes and missed cues which have had a major affect on the way we view the show.
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:24
star89
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All these people disagreeing with me? It's like living with a bunch of teenagers. Which I do, so I'm used to it.
Well I'm not that far off a teenager so I'm allowed

I hated series 3 for multiple reasons, but predominate is that the fascinating Morgana of S2 became a 1D cartoon Snidely Whiplash. The Smirk Was Too Much. I also thought a lot of the acting was weak, including Colin Morgan's. Episode 3.08, The Fisher King was the absolute worst in terms of canon and Arthurian legend. Most of series 3 badly undercut Arthur but 3.08 was the worst. Episode 3.13 was not far behind. In my humble opinion, the saving grace was ASH in the final two episodes. Damn, he was good.
We'l agree on the whole Morgana aspect.. I stopped believing she was Morgana after 3x02.. soon as she started wanting to harm Arthur and Gwen I knew it was a totally different character from series 1 and 2 Morgana.

I still loved series 3 though. I liked 3x01 and 3x02, loved the undead army and Uther going mad from the mandrake. I loved Merlin confronting Morgana in the tombs, although again I wanted to punch him when she said there is no other way and he still didn't tell her about himself and Arthur's destiny to bring back magic!!
And come on series 3 had 3x04 'Gwaine' best episode ever
I also really liked 3x05 and I'm glad Merlin saved Morgana.
I loved 3x08 (again because of a certain Knight ) but maybe thats because I know nothing of the Arthurian legend so you saying it wasn't canon didn't occur or bother me.
I also loved 3x10 (I think thats the number) when we see old Merlin for the first time. I'm a big fan of Arwen so I really enjoyed that episode and I loved the court room scene when Uther slapped her and Arthur gave up his title for Gwen.

Series 4 had some of the best episodes of the entire show. The Wicked Day, 4.03; Servant of Two Masters, 4.06, His Father's Son, 4.05, Herald of a New Age, 4.10 and (I'm going to get so much hate here), Lancelot du Lac, 4.09. Good writing, good acting, and as Cadiva said, in sync with the Arthurian legends. Gwen was, imo, better written in series 4. The wicked!Gwen in series 5 went nowhere and was a waste of time. Nice bit of acting though, on the part of Angel Coulby.
Now what we will agree on is The Wicked Day, now that was an episode. I also liked 4x06 but merely for Merlin getting a mere bit of pain for what he did to Morgana!
Didn't like Lancelot du Lac I couldn't decide wether I wanted Gwen's betrayel to be true, rather than an enchantment or if they wanted it that way then I'd rather Arthur found out it was an enchantment. As she was being punished for something she didn't do. One of my favourite scenes of all times though was her and Arthur in the throne room after he caught her. Amazing stuff from them both.

Also Morgana regained a bit of depth in S4. She appeared conflicted upon hearing of Uther's death; in her vision of Camlann, she came across as remorseful; and in 4.09, she was predicted to bring back the ways of the Old Religion. Morgana was crazy and hence her unpredictability and spite, but she was not unreachable. I was sure that they were setting up for her act of atonement/redemption. Siiiiigh.
Me too

I thought maybe Aithusa was used to protect Morgana as eventually she was the one to take Arthur to Avalon. I assumed that Aithusa saw the goodness still in her. But alas it was not the case

Ahahaaa, looking forward to it. I think many people screwed up in that episode, with the exception of Gwen. But then, she had no agency. That was an episode I hated the first time, but later appreciated for showing Morgana's arc. It's too bad neither Gaius nor Merlin acknowledged their part in the whole mess.
Well Merlin acknowledged it.. right before he killed her That made him look like a ****** IMO. He stands there and tells her he blames himself, he knows he caused it but he still kills her without even a ruddy I'm sorry

Miss! Miss! I'm not disagreeing with you Miss! <creepy child at front of class>
Cough Teacher's pet Cough

*Throws a balled up bit of paper at Avi from the back of the class*
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:48
Avi8
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Cough Teacher's pet Cough

*Throws a balled up bit of paper at Avi from the back of the class*
OI! I have just respectfully read your entire post and, apart from when you are nasty about Merlin, I agreed with everything you said (oh, not the bit about Gwaine being the best ever episode, but everything else) and I was just going to post something nice about how our differences are not really so great, and we probably all really have lots of common ground when it comes to discussing the show..... and then you chuck a balled up piece of paper at me! You cheeky monkey!

Miss! Miss! Star is not getting on with her work Miss!
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Old 27-03-2013, 12:04
star89
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OI! I have just respectfully read your entire post and, apart from when you are nasty about Merlin, I agreed with everything you said (oh, not the bit about Gwaine being the best ever episode, but everything else) and I was just going to post something nice about how our differences are not really so great, and we probably all really have lots of common ground when it comes to discussing the show..... and then you chuck a balled up piece of paper at me! You cheeky monkey!
To be fair I don't actually think Gwaine is the best 'whole' episode but its very high up there.. I mean come on the guy is topless in bed *drools*

I don't think our differences are that great either.. infact I think most of us on here tend to agree with each other on most things in regards to the show
I think it's simply a few character things we disagree on but thats bound to happen as everyone has their favourites

Miss! Miss! Star is not getting on with her work Miss!
I am!! *Scribbles away*
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Old 27-03-2013, 14:10
Natarhi
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Miss! Miss! I'm not disagreeing with you Miss! <creepy child at front of class>
Cough Teacher's pet Cough

*Throws a balled up bit of paper at Avi from the back of the class*
Miss! Miss! Star is not getting on with her work Miss!
I am!! *Scribbles away*
Hahahahahaha! Oh I can totally imagine both of you at school. I bet you're reminding Smint why she quit teaching.

I don't have time to talk about my reasons for liking/not liking certain series/episodes right now. Suffice it to say that I agree almost completely with what star said about series 3 and 4.
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Old 27-03-2013, 14:16
Smint
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Hahahahahaha! Oh I can totally imagine both of you at school. I bet you're reminding Smint why she quit teaching.
I'm sure Avi8 would have been an absolute joy to teach. And I'm sure star would have taken an interest in some of my lessons (once she'd been ushered in by the prefects from behind the bike sheds )
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Old 27-03-2013, 16:57
Avi8
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I'm sure Avi8 would have been an absolute joy to teach. And I'm sure star would have taken an interest in some of my lessons (once she'd been ushered in by the prefects from behind the bike sheds )
Is that sarcasm I see before me?

If it isn't, it bloody well should be.

But I was a teacher too, for many years. My swotty act comes from the children (a few of them) I taught, not from my childhood.

My children are swots though. I do a very good sideline at parents' evenings of being the subversive parent to make up for my swotty children.
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Old 27-03-2013, 19:47
Natarhi
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Is that sarcasm I see before me?

If it isn't, it bloody well should be.
LOL! (literally, I laughed very loud).

Of course you were trouble at school, I shouldn't even be surprised (I wasn't when I actually thought about it. ).
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Old 27-03-2013, 20:19
star89
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I'm sure Avi8 would have been an absolute joy to teach. And I'm sure star would have taken an interest in some of my lessons (once she'd been ushered in by the prefects from behind the bike sheds )
How rude More than likely true but still rude

LOL! (literally, I laughed very loud).

Of course you were trouble at school, I shouldn't even be surprised (I wasn't when I actually thought about it. ).
I'm suprised Avi remembers as far back as herself at school

What did they teach in History back then Avi, Dinosaurs?
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Old 27-03-2013, 22:38
Avi8
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I'm suprised Avi remembers as far back as herself at school

What did they teach in History back then Avi, Dinosaurs?

Well I am coining a new acronym:

GOL (instead of LOL)

It stands for Gasps Out Loud because that is exactly what I did when I read the BIB.

Have you never heard of respect for your elders Star?
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Old 27-03-2013, 22:57
star89
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Well I am coining a new acronym:

GOL (instead of LOL)

It stands for Gasps Out Loud because that is exactly what I did when I read the BIB.

Have you never heard of respect for your elders Star?
I have plenty of respect for you Avi

Doesn't stop me being a cheeky cow though
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:41
Natarhi
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So we never had a vote on what to do about starting series 2.

If anyone missed what Lowri said, although they are not showing an episode this week they will be showing a double bill on the 6th.

So I reckon that leaves us two choices:
A. We watch episode 1 this weekend (wouldn't have to be Saturday-as lots of people have said they're busy-we could decide best day later if we go with this option) then next weekend we watch only episode 2, and we'll be back in line with the BBC3 schedule.
or
B. We don't watch any episode this weekend and do the double bill next weekend.

Personally I'd vote for watching 2.01 this weekend, because there's plenty of time and double bills make it harder to discuss properly. But I don't mind overly much.
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:45
Keren-Happuch
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So we never had a vote on what to do about starting series 2.

If anyone missed what Lowri said, although they are not showing an episode this week they will be showing a double bill on the 6th.

So I reckon that leaves us two choices:
A. We watch episode 1 this weekend (wouldn't have to be Saturday-as lots of people have said they're busy-we could decide best day later if we go with this option) then next weekend we watch only episode 2, and we'll be back in line with the BBC3 schedule.
or
B. We don't watch any episode this weekend and do the double bill next weekend.

Personally I'd vote for watching 2.01 this weekend, because there's plenty of time and double bills make it harder to discuss properly. But I don't mind overly much.
I don't mind watching it this week but I won't be around at the weekend as I'm working Saturday and Sunday. Yay.
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:52
Natarhi
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I don't mind watching it this week but I won't be around at the weekend as I'm working Saturday and Sunday. Yay.
Poor you. There's always Friday/Monday. I bet most people have the bank holidays off.
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Old 29-03-2013, 00:57
Keren-Happuch
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Poor you. There's always Friday/Monday. I bet most people have the bank holidays off.
Well I'll be asleep on Monday during the day and I might be working that night as well, I don't know yet.

By Friday, do you mean tomorrow? I could watch it tomorrow and then post my review later on during the week.
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Old 29-03-2013, 01:19
Natarhi
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Well I'll be asleep on Monday during the day and I might be working that night as well, I don't know yet.

By Friday, do you mean tomorrow? I could watch it tomorrow and then post my review later on during the week.
I do. But maybe we should wait until a more sociable hour and see what everyone else thinks.
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Old 29-03-2013, 10:03
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I'm happy to watch 2.01 this weekend but I won't be around to discuss it until Monday evening most likely as I'm working Saturday and we've got friends coming up for the weekend and then, on Monday, we're going to my parents for dinner and an egg hunt
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Old 29-03-2013, 10:08
Smint
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As I haven't watched last week's double bill yet , I don't think I'm in a position to vote, so I'll go with the majority (assuming this is a democracy)

If it's not - no one is the boss of me and I'll watch them when I damned well like!
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