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Back to Camelot, now with added Mackenzie Crook, Merlin S2 discussion, (6/4/2013)


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Old 03-07-2013, 14:26
missyhoneybee
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I've always enjoyed cult shows and I have NO imagination. That's why I like watching them, and similarly reading fanfic, because there are all these amazing ideas and scenarios and my mind is far too dull to come anywhere close to imagining them myself.

Perhaps I don't like uk soaps similarly because I don't need an imagination for them - just look out the window or at the news. Interestingly I do still watch Aussie soaps - but I think it's because they have this amazingly imaginative thing called sunshine

Ps. I am in no way trying to claim that fans of cult shows have no imagination. All the fanfic clearly proves otherwise. I'm merely saying its not why I like it.
Yes i too find uk soaps very boring and mundane and I agree with you about the aussie soaps and sunshine. I think for me I like programmes to take me to a place or world I no nothing or very little about and uk soaps are just too mundane.
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Old 03-07-2013, 17:28
Keren-Happuch
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[quote=missyhoneybee;66793805]
You are most welcome Missy I'm glad you feel that way, everyone who posts here is part of the thread

I agree with everything you have said (except reading slash ).
I don't mind reading slash as in these types of stories you see a different side to Arthur. Even when I have read Arwen stories you never seem to find the loving, touchy feely protective Arthur that you find in slash stories. So its not the actual slash that appeals but the emotions. I do however feel as though I am betraying - is that the right word - Colin and Bradley when I read it as I know how opposed to it both of them are. I feel guilty sometimes that I have enjoyed reading a slash story.
You're not the only one. I know Smint is so consumed with guilt at writing the Merthur candle scene that she can barely sleep at night.
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Old 03-07-2013, 18:47
Cadiva
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Thinking about it today - what makes something "cult"? and makes so many people write fic on it? It's not popularity as some "cult" has very small select audiences, so what defines it? Anyone got a definitive answer?
Cult originally meant it was none mainstream, shows that had small but very vociferous and dedicated fans who elevated them out of the ordinary - shows like Star Trek, Red Dwarf or Doctor Who, films like Tron, The Blues Brothers, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Withnail and I, stage shows like the Rocky Horror Show etc - usually sci-fi or fantasy elements in their main story telling, comics are cult because they're highly specialised, ie Marvel or DC Comics. Recently the big movie companies have realised that "cult sells" hence why there's been such a glut of films based on comic books like The Avengers, Ironman, Wolverine and the X-Men. Superman and Batman have, unusually, always transcended their cult labels though and been mainstream successes.

It came from "pop culture", something which was not usually popular at the time of original release but which gained a dedicated following of fans. Another good indication of whether something's "cult" or not is if the critics describe it as quirky, fringe, bizarre, confusing to newcomers.
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Old 03-07-2013, 20:27
Lem_1
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It will have to be diamonds if you upset me again Lem
Lem has spent all day idly considering which bank I need to rob to keep Star happy

how about this?

I think that the cults tend to centre around shows like Merlin, Dr Who and Buffy because they are very much removed from modern everyday life and I like to escape when I watch TV. I mean who is going to meet a warlock or a prince today ?
Its the reason that they are so escapist that they attract an avid if somewhat smaller following than soaps. Perhaps people who enjoy cult shows have more of an imagination ?
I suppose it's a form of escapism from reality and the weirder the better that is what attracts fans to the shows. I do prefer TV that's not at all like real life so I guess that is why I mostly watch what is considered cult.

Cult originally meant it was none mainstream, shows that had small but very vociferous and dedicated fans who elevated them out of the ordinary - shows like Star Trek, Red Dwarf or Doctor Who, films like Tron, The Blues Brothers, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Withnail and I, stage shows like the Rocky Horror Show etc - usually sci-fi or fantasy elements in their main story telling, comics are cult because they're highly specialised, ie Marvel or DC Comics. Recently the big movie companies have realised that "cult sells" hence why there's been such a glut of films based on comic books like The Avengers, Ironman, Wolverine and the X-Men. Superman and Batman have, unusually, always transcended their cult labels though and been mainstream successes.

It came from "pop culture", something which was not usually popular at the time of original release but which gained a dedicated following of fans. Another good indication of whether something's "cult" or not is if the critics describe it as quirky, fringe, bizarre, confusing to newcomers.
Thanks Cadiva, some interesting bits below too.

TV series that develop cult followings are known for their magnetic characters, pithy dialogue, and complex plots that interweave of the course of several episodes or seasons. The best cult TV fan bases are passionate and may feel deeply attached to the cult characters, their lives, and their relationships. Many devoted fan communities take to online message boards, writing fan-fiction, and attending conventions dressed as their favorite characters.

Avid fans will not only take special pains to watch every episode of the show but, today, will tape the episodes so that they can review them or even archive them. The show is not only a "special event" but also a major source of self-definition, a kind of quasi-religious experience. Avid fans enthusiastically purchase or consume ancillary texts related to the programme and often join interpretive communities that have formed around the show, such as fan clubs and online discussion groups. Though the availability of such groups in cyberspace has made the recruitment process somewhat easier, it is still difficult for a new show to build "cult" interpretive communities from scratch. Therefore, most new shows hoping to cultivate a cult following tend to appeal to existing interpretive communities, particularly the large umbrella of sci-fi fandom which has in place an infrastructure of fanzines, newsgroups, and conventions.
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Old 03-07-2013, 20:51
star89
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Lem has spent all day idly considering which bank I need to rob to keep Star happy

how about this?



WOW. It's so sparkly.. I love it

Yes Lem, that will certainly keep Star very happy
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:23
Razzylew
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Right, I don't know what everyone has been doing this lovely hot day, but I've been watching The Last Dragon Lord (2x13). So here are my thoughts.... warning - they mostly contain Leon.

LEON! What a great start. I missed you last episode.

LEON again! Looking rather nervous. Let me give you a reassuring cuddle. I'm a seer don't you know and predict a long life for you (outliving most of the rest of the cast)

LEON again. Crikey, we've only just got to the opening credits and I'm 3 Leon drinks in already.

Ok Dragon, you just directly attacked Arthur (in the back - not very chivalrous). What happened to Destiny? Comes second place to your revenge does it?

Shirtless Arthur for Keren (and drink for me)

Wow Merlin. You really f***ed up this time.

Leon.

Naughty Naughty Gaius. have you been keeping secrets from your king?

Arthur 1, Uther 0. Concern for Camelot trumps concern for your son.

Merlin, you really shouldn't sound so surprised at the idea of your mum being brave. She raised you, a warlock, on her own after all. Ungrateful bastard (literally).

Merlin, Balinor is... your father!! dum dum duummmm!

Its nice to see Arthur riding out without chainmail. That must make things lighter for Avi.

First it was shirtless Arthur, now soaking wet Arthur. Hurry up and catch up Keren!

Shirtless Arthur again (you sure you don't want to borrow the dvds Keren?)

Leon! and again. Hic.That fire got awfully close. Quick, someone throw a bucket of water over him! Just to be safe of course...

More shirtless Arthur.

And an Arthur bum shot.... although it probably wasn't actually Bradley. It didn't look particularly peachy.

Welcome to Balinor's Spa. Arthur has opted for the mud wrap treatment today.

Careful how much you question Balinor about Hunith, Merlin. No-one wants to know too much about their parent's relationship

Those robes make Gaius look like a Jedi.

Awwww. That whole conversation between Merlin and Balinor was rather sweet. Merlin's pleasure at meeting his dad was rather adorable.

Bye bye Balinor. Can't have Merlin being happy for long. Or have anyone to turn to other than Arthur or Gaius.

Leon! More Leon! And gormless looking Leon!

Of course there'll be no stain on your knightly reputations if you don't volunteer, you'll all be dead anyway!

Leon - you're so brave! First to volunteer. My hero! *swoon* (But crikey that knight next to him is a short arse!)

Good plan to wear helmets knights - it'll protect your hair from the flames. Or save them having to use actors rather than stunt doubles for the rest of the scenes.

The Camelot riding school is out in Kilgarrah's field tonight.

Arthur's unconscious now so it must be Merlin's time to save the day. Hmmm I wonder if Merlin has inherited his Daddy's dragon lord powers... Ooo the suspense is killing me Wait, did Merlin just say "kiss ass" to the dragon at the end then?

"What you have shown is what you will be" So, incapable of killing someone who's a threat when you get the chance then?*coughMordredcough*

I'm sorry Arthur, just HOW do you think you killed the dragon?

Errrrr... that's just Merlin and Arthur arriving back. Where are the other knights? Leon....? Leon..............? LEON..........?

Arthur gets a hug from Gwen, and who does Merlin get? Gaius! haha.


So..... I counted lots of drinks for Leon, and shirtless Arthur, but between those 2 trying to get me drunk, I totally forgot to pay attention to anything else. They gave me16 drinks on their own. Plus 2 for dramatic music before I got too distracted

I'm surprised that they had that episode as the series finale. With no Morgause or Morgana in it, I think the episodes would have been better the other way round, although they'd've needed to find another reason to free Kilgarrah. Still, it seemed odd to end the series not knowing what happened to Morg1 and Morg2, but it wasn't a cliff hanger either.

Did anyone else watch it? Or for those of you with impeccable memories want to comment on your thoughts for the episode? Merlin was quite sweet this episode, but I was noticeably less sympathetic towards him after last weeks episode.
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:40
star89
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Ok Dragon, you just directly attacked Arthur (in the back - not very chivalrous). What happened to Destiny? Comes second place to your revenge does it?
Stupid, f*cking, b*llsh*tting dragon

Wow Merlin. You really f***ed up this time.
As apposed to the times he hasn't f*cked up

Bye bye Balinor. Can't have Merlin being happy for long. Or have anyone to turn to other than Arthur or Gaius.
Sad isn't it Merlin? Watching someone you love die

"What you have shown is what you will be" So, incapable of killing someone who's a threat when you get the chance then?*coughMordredcough*
A selfish, two faced, murdering, little pr*ck

Don't start on my Mordred!!

Did anyone else watch it? Or for those of you with impeccable memories want to comment on your thoughts for the episode? Merlin was quite sweet this episode, but I was noticeably less sympathetic towards him after last weeks episode.
Nope
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:46
Natarhi
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Merlin, you really shouldn't sound so surprised at the idea of your mum being brave. She raised you, a warlock, on her own after all. Ungrateful bastard (literally).
LMAO! Love it!

Leon! and again. Hic.That fire got awfully close. Quick, someone throw a bucket of water over him! Just to be safe of course...
*Throws bucket of water over Leon*

*Stands back to admire the effect, I mean, make sure there's no fire*

And an Arthur bum shot.... although it probably wasn't actually Bradley. It didn't look particularly peachy.
*snort* Better get Avi and Keren to check it out, I'm sure they can tell us.

I'm surprised that they had that episode as the series finale. With no Morgause or Morgana in it, I think the episodes would have been better the other way round, although they'd've needed to find another reason to free Kilgarrah. Still, it seemed odd to end the series not knowing what happened to Morg1 and Morg2, but it wasn't a cliff hanger either.

Did anyone else watch it? Or for those of you with impeccable memories want to comment on your thoughts for the episode? Merlin was quite sweet this episode, but I was noticeably less sympathetic towards him after last weeks episode.
I never really considered the episode order, I quite like this one as a finale. I thought the Merlin-Balinor scenes were good, before the inevitable death.

I can't believe Merlin ever trusted the dragon again after this point though. He tried to kill Arthur and destroy Camelot (take that destiny!) and only stopped because he was literally forced to by having his free will taken away, and yet Merlin thinks that the smart thing to do is to continue asking him for advice? Oh, that makes perfect sense. Idiot. Really it would have been more interesting for the show if they'd kept Balinor alive, had him send Kilgharrah away, and then had Merlin go to his dad for advice over the dragon. Would have made for a different dynamic, and also meant we didn't have to put up with the oversized handbag so much. (They could have still had the dragon for those life or death situations like when he needs saving from the giant scorpions, or when Arthur is dying and needs to get to Avalon asap...oh, wait...)

I have to say that this is the only episode I like the dragon in. Sure when he's chained in the dungeon (cavern?) he's all refined-John-Hurt, have some sage but mysterious and vague advice, but once he's free it's DEATH! FIERY DEATH FROM ABOVE!!

As apposed to the times he hasn't f*cked up
LOL! So true.
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Old 06-07-2013, 22:28
Razzylew
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As apposed to the times he hasn't f*cked up
Don't start on my Mordred!!
Well, this seemed to be a particularly spectacular F**k up resulting in most of Camelot dying.

And I blame Kara for Mordred's death.

*Throws bucket of water over Leon*

*Stands back to admire the effect, I mean, make sure there's no fire*
Phew! Thank you. *Stands back to admire Natarhi's handiwork* I think his hair may be a bit singed, but as long as he starts to wear it a bit differently, no-one should notice.

*snort* Better get Avi and Keren to check it out, I'm sure they can tell us.
Do you think they'd mind? It feels like a terrible imposition to ask them...

I never really considered the episode order, I quite like this one as a finale. I thought the Merlin-Balinor scenes were good, before the inevitable death.
I just thought Morgause was the on-going bad guy of the series, and we know Morgana is going to be the eventual bad guy, so I would expect the season finale to be about the 2 main bad guys (or bad gals as I suppose they are). I thought the episode was good enough to be the season finale, I just thought they'd want to finish on an overall arc story.


I have to say that this is the only episode I like the dragon in. Sure when he's chained in the dungeon (cavern?) he's all refined-John-Hurt, have some sage but mysterious and vague advice, but once he's free it's DEATH! FIERY DEATH FROM ABOVE!!
Like a man with a bit of power do you? At least he doesn't do things halfheartedly!
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Old 06-07-2013, 22:51
Natarhi
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Phew! Thank you. *Stands back to admire Natarhi's handiwork* I think his hair may be a bit singed, but as long as he starts to wear it a bit differently, no-one should notice.
Oh, any time, happy to help.

Do you think they'd mind? It feels like a terrible imposition to ask them...
It's their area of expertise, they'll be thrilled.

I just thought Morgause was the on-going bad guy of the series, and we know Morgana is going to be the eventual bad guy, so I would expect the season finale to be about the 2 main bad guys (or bad gals as I suppose they are). I thought the episode was good enough to be the season finale, I just thought they'd want to finish on an overall arc story.
I don't think she is. I mean she's only in two episodes and the first of those is episode 8, so it's hardly series-long, not like Nimueh last series who was there almost from the beginning.

Like a man with a bit of power do you? At least he doesn't do things halfheartedly!
I just like the contrast, especially leading on from the line "I am the last of my kind, there is but one path left to me" (or whatever the exact phrasing is). You're thinking 'one path left, I guess retiring to some mountain with dignity or something of the sort' but then the one path turns out to be: Mad Death Rampage! Still makes me laugh.
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Old 06-07-2013, 22:59
star89
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I just like the contrast, especially leading on from the line "I am the last of my kind, there is but one path left to me" (or whatever the exact phrasing is). You're thinking 'one path left, I guess retiring to some mountain with dignity or something of the sort' but then the one path turns out to be: Mad Death Rampage! Still makes me laugh.
You know what isn't funny?

B*stard dragon - You must kill Morgana because she's a danger to your destiny...

Nest episode said b*stard dragon nearly kills Arthur and ruins the destiny anyway
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Old 08-07-2013, 13:20
MikeAP001
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You know what isn't funny?

B*stard dragon - You must kill Morgana because she's a danger to your destiny...

Nest episode said b*stard dragon nearly kills Arthur and ruins the destiny anyway
But star, the Great Dragon is looking out for Merlin to ensure Arthur fulfills his destiny... Bwahahaha!!!
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Old 08-07-2013, 13:35
Razzylew
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I watched the commentary to the Fires of Wherever they are (otherwise known as the one where Merlin poisons Morgana). Funnily enough Katie says pretty much everything you do about Merlin, star. She even says that Merlin just killed good Morgana. The only difference between what Katie said, and what you said, is she didn't get angry, otherwise I might think you're the same person!
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Old 08-07-2013, 13:48
Keren-Happuch
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I watched the commentary to the Fires of Wherever they are (otherwise known as the one where Merlin poisons Morgana). Funnily enough Katie says pretty much everything you do about Merlin, star. She even says that Merlin just killed good Morgana. The only difference between what Katie said, and what you said, is she didn't get angry, otherwise I might think you're the same person!
OMG Razzy, I think you've cracked it! They're the same dress size, she's worn all the costumes, she refuses to meet us....it's no wonder star is such a huge Morgana fan. Well I never would have guessed that Katie McGrath was obsessed with Emmerdale.
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Old 08-07-2013, 15:23
Avi8
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And an Arthur bum shot.... although it probably wasn't actually Bradley. It didn't look particularly peachy.
*snort* Better get Avi and Keren to check it out, I'm sure they can tell us.
I have had a look for you. I admit I have no idea if it is Bradley's bum or not but if it is, it isn't as peachy looking as it can be.
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Old 14-07-2013, 04:43
tvfan2393
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I actually think Fires was one of the best scripts the writers have written.

I don't really fault Merlin for poisoning Morgana. To me, his POV was that he was unsure if Morgana was in on the whole plan, which doesn't seem too unwarranted a suspicion, given the misleading info from the Dragon, how she seemed to be spared from any of the attacks, and how sketchy she's probably been lately. In all fairness, I think under all the pressure, even the best of us wouldn't have thought there was much choice if we were in the situation.

Still, it's brilliant piece of work! Merlin doesn't know Morgana doesn't know she's the reason this is all happening, Morgana probably has a feeling but doesn't know/doesn't wanna know she's causing all this, which all ends in Morgana thinking Merlin betrays her. It could've given solid ground to a whole lot of Merlin/Morgana conflict for the next series... which they sadly did terribly.

What I DO fault Merlin was what he did (or the writers did) in S3... If he was a TRUE friend, he would've tried to convince Morgana on more occasions to see reason (of course, he'll fail but at least we'll know he tried). It would've led to wonderful dialogues about Morgana's state of mind and what she firmly believes in now that would actually be enough reason for her to suddenly want to KILL her adopted brother and best friend. Instead, they never really discussed this pivotal moment and what was even stranger was that Morgana didn't seem at all that furious on Merlin, and was just hellbent to kill everyone in general. The intriguing, confused character essentially became a cartoon, whose actions made no sense whatsoever.

The episode was a brilliant setup for things to come... which never came, which sadly, you always expect from this show.
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Old 14-07-2013, 16:27
MikeAP001
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I actually think Fires was one of the best scripts the writers have written.

I don't really fault Merlin for poisoning Morgana. To me, his POV was that he was unsure if Morgana was in on the whole plan, which doesn't seem too unwarranted a suspicion, given the misleading info from the Dragon, how she seemed to be spared from any of the attacks, and how sketchy she's probably been lately. In all fairness, I think under all the pressure, even the best of us wouldn't have thought there was much choice if we were in the situation.

Still, it's brilliant piece of work! Merlin doesn't know Morgana doesn't know she's the reason this is all happening, Morgana probably has a feeling but doesn't know/doesn't wanna know she's causing all this, which all ends in Morgana thinking Merlin betrays her. It could've given solid ground to a whole lot of Merlin/Morgana conflict for the next series... which they sadly did terribly.

What I DO fault Merlin was what he did (or the writers did) in S3... If he was a TRUE friend, he would've tried to convince Morgana on more occasions to see reason (of course, he'll fail but at least we'll know he tried). It would've led to wonderful dialogues about Morgana's state of mind and what she firmly believes in now that would actually be enough reason for her to suddenly want to KILL her adopted brother and best friend. Instead, they never really discussed this pivotal moment and what was even stranger was that Morgana didn't seem at all that furious on Merlin, and was just hellbent to kill everyone in general. The intriguing, confused character essentially became a cartoon, whose actions made no sense whatsoever.

The episode was a brilliant setup for things to come... which never came, which sadly, you always expect from this show.
Actually, this could have been fixed in Season 5 and extending things to a Season 6 to wrap everything up in a Season 7. It would have been a far more satisfying story. But, it's not a total loss because it could still happen IF the cast and crew wanted it to happen by retooling things a bit.
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Old 14-07-2013, 18:09
SideshowStu
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I actually think Fires was one of the best scripts the writers have written.

I don't really fault Merlin for poisoning Morgana. To me, his POV was that he was unsure if Morgana was in on the whole plan, which doesn't seem too unwarranted a suspicion, given the misleading info from the Dragon, how she seemed to be spared from any of the attacks, and how sketchy she's probably been lately. In all fairness, I think under all the pressure, even the best of us wouldn't have thought there was much choice if we were in the situation.

Still, it's brilliant piece of work! Merlin doesn't know Morgana doesn't know she's the reason this is all happening, Morgana probably has a feeling but doesn't know/doesn't wanna know she's causing all this, which all ends in Morgana thinking Merlin betrays her. It could've given solid ground to a whole lot of Merlin/Morgana conflict for the next series... which they sadly did terribly.

What I DO fault Merlin was what he did (or the writers did) in S3... If he was a TRUE friend, he would've tried to convince Morgana on more occasions to see reason (of course, he'll fail but at least we'll know he tried). It would've led to wonderful dialogues about Morgana's state of mind and what she firmly believes in now that would actually be enough reason for her to suddenly want to KILL her adopted brother and best friend. Instead, they never really discussed this pivotal moment and what was even stranger was that Morgana didn't seem at all that furious on Merlin, and was just hellbent to kill everyone in general. The intriguing, confused character essentially became a cartoon, whose actions made no sense whatsoever.

The episode was a brilliant setup for things to come... which never came, which sadly, you always expect from this show.
Good post

BIB - Possibly my biggest gripe about the show Followed closely by Gwen's descent into anonymity, Arthur continuing to be implausibly dozy and Merlin ending up no wiser than when he started but a sight more miserable
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