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Old 29-03-2013, 12:48
Stube
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Anyone else really annoyed how the careers of both these winners have been handled?

These two are arguably the most talented and commercial contestants to ever grace the XF stage and Syco have wasted their talent with inefficient management.

I can't help but think if Leona and Alexandra were contestants on the 2010 series, would they have joint record deals like Olly and Matt, and would they be taken to America properly (Alex never got given the chance and Leona's record label don't give a crap anymore).

If marketed correctly, these two could've been the biggest X Factor stories (Leona still is but mainly due to her monster debut era). Alexandra's styling and media persona has hindered her and Leona's terrible management team have taken her career from most successful artist of 2008 to a minor success.

Anyone agree, or disagree?
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Old 29-03-2013, 13:09
WhyHelloWorld
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I think Alexandra never would of made it big in America, she hasn't had any songs that have been in any way....amazing. Everything she has released hasn't been new, fresh, unique sounding. Leona with Bleeding Love was fantastic. Bleeding Love didn't sound like anything else out in the charts. She would still be big to this day if they had released the correct singles after Bleeding Love, but they didn't.

Alexandra's second album has to be the worst album any X Factor contestant has released, it was just full of filler. Leona's 3rd album, again, has amazing song, but single-wise it was handled terribly.
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Old 29-03-2013, 13:54
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Alex is so so talented and when she was dominant in the UK

She was the SOLE female (except Pixie who did it crap) to dance and sing perfectly she was even sometimes referred to as the UKs Beyonce. I think if given the right push she could have made it stateside. She had collaborations with Pitbull, Ne-Yo and Flo Rida on album 1 she could have easily debuted there successfully.

The thing is the season she won. Simon wasnt used to taking contestants straight out to America. He'd only done it with Leona so I think he and SYCO were deffo planning too alex even confirmed it but it was timing! Simon had commitments with trying to launch xfactor US he was planning it at the time and finishing American idol and I think the UK series after Alex's distracted him a little with the promotion and potential with alex in America. Then there was the long gap alex took with album 2 I think she got tired of waiting for Simon and wanted to with her SYCO team create her US debut

The album we got for #2 wasn't the original. She worked with a host of US producers she was in the studio with RICO love who produces for usher Beyonce ect (there's even pictures with alexandra and usher in the states) there's also a picture of alex with Beyonce at the time which makes me wonder if alex got help from her at the time. Anyway. I think alex completed album 2 however SYCO were not confirming it's release or any singles so Alex felt neglected then moved toRCA UK who are broke. They couldn't afford to buy the tracks from producers so alex was forced to go for a cheaper sound with UK and European producers which is why the 2nd album sounds poor in comparison to what inner fans of Alex were expecting. Then radio snubbed alex. I think alex just had a lot of let downs it's sad really
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Old 29-03-2013, 13:54
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Leona I really think fell victim to horrendous management. Syco REALLY messed up during Echo. They were slow to react and tried to release Happy simultaneously when Leona had nowhere near enough time to promote it in the US...and then when I Got You failed, they just gave up on the US and the whole album altogether....her international career has pretty much fizzled out now because Syco had no idea what to do with her...

Clive Davis even tried to shift some of the blame on to her, claiming she wanted to write more and that the songs were too weak etc. But I don't think there was a problem with the music, as Leona co-wrote Happy and that was amazing. It was her promotion/management that caused the problems and she has been suffering ever since.

Alexandra fell victim to horribly bad luck. Her debut album was actually executive produced by Roc Nation, and she was being bigged up in Billboard magazine before her debut. It's very unclear what happened, but she had a lot of buzz from her duet with Beyoncé and was being featured regularly on US blogs etc. She had the songs to stand out, I really think All Night Long would have been a successful single for her in the US. I don't buy the "unique" argument when artists like Jessie J are seeing success there. It's more down to marketing than anything else.

Some strange stuff happened with her career, which led to her original 2nd album being scrapped. She worked with loads of top producers, but the album never saw the light of day for unknown reasons. Heartbreak on Hold was actually a very rushed album that she recorded in just a few months, I think it turned out OK considering, but she didn't deserve to be releasing that kind of material based on the success of her first album.

It seems that Syco learned from the mistakes they made with Leona and Alexandra, and used that with the 2010 contestants, but that still doesn't excuse how they handled these girls' careers.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:00
Stally
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I feel quite sorry for Alexandra and I don't get why so many people hate her. The thing is Syco did give Alex the chance to test the waters in Australia, but I don't think she did that great there. So maybe Syco thought it would have been a huge risk if Alex went to America seeing as she didn't do great in Australia. Syco also followed the same pattern with Little Mix and One Direction as they released music in Australia first and both these groups got a lot of attention and did good on the charts. As a result 1D were given the chance to take on America, and now Little Mix have also been given that opportunity as they are trying to crack America right now.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:05
Zack06
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I feel quite sorry for Alexandra and I don't get why so many people hate her. The thing is Syco did give Alex the chance to test the waters in Australia, but I don't think she did that great there. So maybe Syco thought it would have been a huge risk if Alex went to America seeing as she didn't do great in Australia. Syco also followed the same pattern with Little Mix and One Direction as they released music in Australia first and both these groups got a lot of attention and did good on the charts. As a result 1D were given the chance to take on America, and now Little Mix have also been given that opportunity as they are trying to crack America right now.
To be fair, they released the song off the back of one TV performance from Alex on a breakfast show. She only ever performed in Australia once. I don't think that's really enough promotion to give the song traction to do well. Whereas in Europe she had a dedicated tour bus and Bad Boys went top 10 in various countries.

I don't think they really ever gave her a proper chance which is a shame tbh.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:06
iseloid
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I feel quite sorry for Alexandra and I don't get why so many people hate her. The thing is Syco did give Alex the chance to test the waters in Australia, but I don't think she did that great there. So maybe Syco thought it would have been a huge risk if Alex went to America seeing as she didn't do great in Australia. Syco also followed the same pattern with Little Mix and One Direction as they released music in Australia first and both these groups got a lot of attention and did good on the charts. As a result 1D were given the chance to take on America, and now Little Mix have also been given that opportunity as they are trying to crack America right now.
True. But they did just throw Bad Boys out there. She didn't perform it once. The campaign was sadly messy.
Leona is sad too. I'm annoyed, because they can out sing all of our UK singers and hold their own against the US best.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:19
Stally
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True. But they did just throw Bad Boys out there. She didn't perform it once. The campaign was sadly messy.
Leona is sad too. I'm annoyed, because they can out sing all of our UK singers and hold their own against the US best.
I thought she released All Night Long in Australia not Bad Boys Maybe the promo for Bad boys was handled really badly, but she did get the chance to promote ANL as she performed on Sunrise, and another show (I can't remember the name).
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:40
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I think Alexandra never would of made it big in America, she hasn't had any songs that have been in any way....amazing. Everything she has released hasn't been new, fresh, unique sounding. Leona with Bleeding Love was fantastic. Bleeding Love didn't sound like anything else out in the charts. She would still be big to this day if they had released the correct singles after Bleeding Love, but they didn't.

Alexandra's second album has to be the worst album any X Factor contestant has released, it was just full of filler. Leona's 3rd album, again, has amazing song, but single-wise it was handled terribly.
Sorry but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

Cher Lloyd's 'Want U Back' and Jessie J's 'Price Tag' are so generic and faceless compared to Alexandra's 'All Night Long' for example. 'All Night Long' could have easily dented the Billboard Hot 100 with great management but, again, that was the issue.

Simon and his label don't/didn't deserve to handle these girls if they can't do it properly. Just proves that he is actually clueless when it comes to handling people's careers. Only One Direction seem to be having international success past one single and that's more down to them being a boyband and Twitter rather than Simon's efforts. Even their singles performances on the US Hot 100 aren't that great. Only three top 20 singles - with only WMYB sticking around. It's more down to who they are than good management.

As much as I loved XF in 2006, 2008 and 2011, I think it should be axed for this reason. People just throw money at the acts they love and want to see make it successful but they can't as long as Simon is overseeing everything.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:45
WhyHelloWorld
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Sorry but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

Cher Lloyd's 'Want U Back' and Jessie J's 'Price Tag' are so generic and faceless compared to Alexandra's 'All Night Long' for example. 'All Night Long' could have easily dented the Billboard Hot 100 with great management but, again, that was the issue.

Simon and his label don't/didn't deserve to handle these girls if they can't do it properly. Just proves that he is actually clueless when it comes to handling people's careers. Only One Direction seem to be having international success past one single and that's more down to them being a boyband and Twitter rather than Simon's efforts. Even their singles performances on the US Hot 100 aren't that great. Only three top 20 singles - with only WMYB sticking around. It's more down to who they are than good management.

As much as I loved XF in 2006, 2008 and 2011, I think it should be axed for this reason. People just throw money at the acts they love and want to see make it successful but they can't as long as Simon is overseeing everything.
Want U Back was released in America in 2012. Price Tag in 2011 (or 2010?). So your argument doesn't stand. When Alex released her first album, there were other artists doing the same as her. Want U Back had those grunts in it - which you can't argue...was unique to a song etc - that sold the song. People knew what song it was as soon as the grunt kicked in etc.

Alex's songs were just plain, nothing special. Bad Boys was generic, so was All Night Long - and lets not get started on Elephant. So to say Want U Back and Price Tag are generic, makes Alexandra's music sound even MORE generic.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:50
Zack06
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Want U Back was released in America in 2012. Price Tag in 2011 (or 2010?). So your argument doesn't stand. When Alex released her first album, there were other artists doing the same as her. Want U Back had those grunts in it - which you can't argue...was unique to a song etc - that sold the song. People knew what song it was as soon as the grunt kicked in etc.

Alex's songs were just plain, nothing special. Bad Boys was generic, so was All Night Long - and lets not get started on Elephant. So to say Want U Back and Price Tag are generic, makes Alexandra's music sound even MORE generic.
LMAO Sorry, but All Night Long was fresh and catchy in 2010. Those "All Night, All Night" chants were way more identifiable than "grunts".

Plus the feature with Pitbull, who was blowing up at the time, would have definitely made it a hit. Didn't Cher have to release like 3 versions of the song before it took off? So your point doesn't really stand either. She had to promote very hard before the song was noticed, which supports my point that with strong backing AB would also have made it. Especially with the support she had from Beyoncé who linked her up with Roc Nation.

Overcome not being released in the US was definitely a massive missed opportunity, artists like Rita Ora are failing in the US because they don't have strong enough performing credentials and vocals, which AB does have, so I really think it was more a political/internal thing than anything else.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:51
stargirl1
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Want U Back was released in America in 2012. Price Tag in 2011 (or 2010?). So your argument doesn't stand. When Alex released her first album, there were other artists doing the same as her. Want U Back had those grunts in it - which you can't argue...was unique to a song etc - that sold the song. People knew what song it was as soon as the grunt kicked in etc.

Alex's songs were just plain, nothing special. Bad Boys was generic, so was All Night Long - and lets not get started on Elephant. So to say Want U Back and Price Tag are generic, makes Alexandra's music sound even MORE generic.
Subjective. What makes Alex stand out is her voice. What other songs were like Bad Boys at that time?

Overcome was far better received by music critics than Jessie J's album, and Alex has a far more unique tone than Cher and Jessie J, who both have fairly generic voices.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:57
WhyHelloWorld
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LMAO Sorry, but All Night Long was fresh and catchy in 2010. Those "All Night, All Night" chants were way more identifiable than "grunts".

Plus the feature with Pitbull, who was blowing up at the time, would have definitely made it a hit. Didn't Cher have to release like 3 versions of the song before it took off? So your point doesn't really stand either. She had to promote very hard before the song was noticed, which supports my point that with strong backing AB would also have made it. Especially with the support she had from Beyoncé who linked her up with Roc Nation.

Overcome not being released in the US was definitely a massive missed opportunity, artists like Rita Ora are failing in the US because they don't have strong enough performing credentials and vocals, which AB does have, so I really think it was more a political/internal thing than anything else.
But All Night Long sounded old after 3 weeks. I really like Alexandra Burke, i honestly do (although a slight part of me is still a bit annoyed Diana didn't win that year ) But Alex has never had a song that has been imediately identifiable - IMO. Even Elephant (that i did love) could of been any female singer...ever. The editing of her voice just...took away anything special she had! If she had released 'Fire' as the lead single, i think her 2nd album would of done a lot better.

Bad Boys - yeah, good. Not anything special. Broken Heels - again, good. Nothing identifiable. All Night Long - It really wasn't fresh. People were releasing songs just like this before this. Start Without You - not her best song, but it was fresh. Which is why it was successful.

Want U Back was always identifiable within 2 seconds of the song starting on the radio. If you wanted to go home and buy that song you just had to ask someone "What is that song with the grunts in it?" and someone would know it. Easily. With Alex's songs you couldn't go up to someone and say something like that, which is why i don't feel she could of ever done well in America, and maybe the reason Simon never tried it, was because he KNEW this.

It's all about person opinion, but i do understand why the extreme fans run to defend her. But come on, not a single song of hers has ever been that fresh, new, unique etc. It had all been done before - it doesn't mean that she is crap or anything. It's the same with Leona Lewis' new album. It is a fantastic album, but it was delayed to 2012, and therefore (with the exception of 3/4 tracks) didn't sound as fresh as it would of if it had been released in 2011.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:59
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Alexandra is brilliant but the simple fact is, in America she is in no way unique and there are similar people who are better than she is.

Like Kelly Rowland and Nicole Scherzinger, she'll have no problem making it big in the UK and Europe but beyond that she doesn't stand a chance. Alex needs a single or an album out this year though before she falls off the radar.
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Old 29-03-2013, 14:59
WhyHelloWorld
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Subjective. What makes Alex stand out is her voice. What other songs were like Bad Boys at that time?

Overcome was far better received by music critics than Jessie J's album, and Alex has a far more unique tone than Cher and Jessie J, who both have fairly generic voices.
That's great. It's doing her **** all good though, isnt it?
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Old 29-03-2013, 15:00
WhyHelloWorld
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Alexandra is brilliant but the simple fact is, in America she is in no way unique and there are similar people who are better than she is.

Like Kelly Rowland and Nicole Scherzinger, she'll have no problem making it big in the UK and Europe but beyond that she doesn't stand a chance. Alex needs a single or an album out this year though before she falls off the radar.
Yeah. Completely agree.
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Old 29-03-2013, 15:02
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I agree. I think some people are letting their opinions cloud the reality. I personally do not like 1D and Cher's music, but I can still see that it does have appeal to others and could be successful. The same applies to Leona and Alex's music.

I still maintain that, if she didn't have the potential, then she wouldn't have been signed to Epic US and Roc Nation wouldn't have taken on her album. Something went wrong behind the scenes, as everything else was there. I think it's just extreme misfortune that she didn't reach America tbh.
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Old 29-03-2013, 15:51
iseloid
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I thought she released All Night Long in Australia not Bad Boys Maybe the promo for Bad boys was handled really badly, but she did get the chance to promote ANL as she performed on Sunrise, and another show (I can't remember the name).
They put both out. Bad Boys just was thrown out and ANL had a bit of promotion. She sang the song twice, if you didn't know who she was it wouldn't mean anything. It would be like Fantasia singing a good song on GMTV. It won't do anything.
Little Mix were on X Factor, a much bigger platform and 1D are pretty boys.

In Alex's case, the only other person better than her is Beyoncè. Yes that's huge, but for me (I stan hard for both) Alex has the vocal soul that Bey does not. Also she reminds me of Janet, than Tina (in style of performance). Alex would do very well. I hawk US forums and those who know her want her to come over, because they don't have people like her. There have only been 12 women in history who danced and sang. And out of that list, only 4 can do both incredibly well at the same time - Tina, Beyonce, Kate Bush and Nicole Scherzinger (Alex not included). Alex makes 5.

Alex needs songs like All Night Long and Between The Sheets. You've got to appeal to the mid point to succeed. Look at Beyonce/Jessie J. Mixtures.

Leona is in a harder position. Her team and her both need to take it seriously, I think she likes to sing but isn't interested in the big game anymore.
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Old 29-03-2013, 15:56
iseloid
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That's great. It's doing her **** all good though, isnt it?
Now it isn't. But it did for 2 years and very well. Hit after hit after hit. It's got her financially and commercially to where she is. 4m records is a good feat here for one album. But without airplay you're nothing (ie Radio 1 and Capital). Leona suffered the same fate. That's why they have to be global. Otherwise it doesn't work.
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Old 29-03-2013, 16:33
Teflon Don
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Leona has sold millions and millions of records worldwide. She's had a great career. It's not easy to sell well every album.
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Old 29-03-2013, 23:48
Stube
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But All Night Long sounded old after 3 weeks. I really like Alexandra Burke, i honestly do (although a slight part of me is still a bit annoyed Diana didn't win that year ) But Alex has never had a song that has been imediately identifiable - IMO. Even Elephant (that i did love) could of been any female singer...ever. The editing of her voice just...took away anything special she had! If she had released 'Fire' as the lead single, i think her 2nd album would of done a lot better.

Bad Boys - yeah, good. Not anything special. Broken Heels - again, good. Nothing identifiable. All Night Long - It really wasn't fresh. People were releasing songs just like this before this. Start Without You - not her best song, but it was fresh. Which is why it was successful.

Want U Back was always identifiable within 2 seconds of the song starting on the radio. If you wanted to go home and buy that song you just had to ask someone "What is that song with the grunts in it?" and someone would know it. Easily. With Alex's songs you couldn't go up to someone and say something like that, which is why i don't feel she could of ever done well in America, and maybe the reason Simon never tried it, was because he KNEW this.

It's all about person opinion, but i do understand why the extreme fans run to defend her. But come on, not a single song of hers has ever been that fresh, new, unique etc. It had all been done before - it doesn't mean that she is crap or anything. It's the same with Leona Lewis' new album. It is a fantastic album, but it was delayed to 2012, and therefore (with the exception of 3/4 tracks) didn't sound as fresh as it would of if it had been released in 2011.
Sorry but I just think that's ridiculous reasoning. A song does well only because it has gimmick such as a grunt included? Grunts or no grunts, WUB would've done well because of Cher's image, links to 1D and fantastic and persistent management. And to echo Zack, the chants at the beginning of the single version of 'All Night Long' are definitely unique if we're going to use your logic. Anyone who heard the song on the radio could ask "oi do you know that song that chants 'ALL NIGHT ALL NIGHT' at the beginning".

At the end of the day, Alex could've made it in the US with her songs if she had the management of Cher or someone else. I agree that 'Bad Boys' probably would've flopped because it's both cheesy and slightly dated even by 2010/2011 but songs such as 'All Night Long' and as much as I dislike them, 'Broken Heels' and 'Start Without You' could've done well (SWY because of the cheesiness and love/hate nature of the song).
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Old 29-03-2013, 23:53
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It seems like the X Factor constants/winners with powerful voices are flopping, whilst talentless ones are succeeding.
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Old 30-03-2013, 00:48
iseloid
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It seems like the X Factor constants/winners with powerful voices are flopping, whilst talentless ones are succeeding.
Sad but true. It's harder to manage a talented act than a talentless one.
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Old 30-03-2013, 10:24
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Alex seems to be able to dance is the whole package.

Leona had a nose job and will not admit it.

I find it wrong that in body shop her nose is completely different and air brushed to hell.

She needs to lose weight she is obese and it harms her career.

Alex looks good 'all night long' was a catchy single and should have been released in the states.

All this talk of lack of promotion is rubbish. They have more pr and exposure than most musicians.

Unless you can write your own stuff and it is catchy then all x factor acts in the uk have a shelf life.

James Morrison failed at x factor auditions and he does not get the pr that these 2 had and he still does big shows and releases albums.

Imho all this talk lack of lack of promotion really means it the end of the line.
Mind the gap when you step off.
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Old 30-03-2013, 11:07
Stube
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Alex seems to be able to dance is the whole package.

Leona had a nose job and will not admit it.

I find it wrong that in body shop her nose is completely different and air brushed to hell.

She needs to lose weight she is obese and it harms her career.

Alex looks good 'all night long' was a catchy single and should have been released in the states.

All this talk of lack of promotion is rubbish. They have more pr and exposure than most musicians.

Unless you can write your own stuff and it is catchy then all x factor acts in the uk have a shelf life.

James Morrison failed at x factor auditions and he does not get the pr that these 2 had and he still does big shows and releases albums.

Imho all this talk lack of lack of promotion really means it the end of the line.
Mind the gap when you step off.
No offence but you really don't know what you're talking about. You haven't followed their careers closely if you can't see it is down to poor management.
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